astrology and quantum entanglement

Reality is experienced via human perception but is not human perception itself.
True. That's why I keep mentioning that there is space for a huge error in our judgment that its only genetics+nurture because studies were done using twins to prove the genetics side. It sure does prove that its by birth. But then the next step of associating it completely to genetics is pure speculation. Since they don't even consider the possibility of an extra component, they give the entire credit to genetics. Its the same logic like since there is a creation, there sould be a creator. Because they have already credited genetics with the responsibility, doesn't make it the only component present. There could be several other natural factors as well.


The only threat it poses are to those with whom accept things not based on evidence.
Exactly. That includes the entire human race who have chosen to blindly believe in psychology. Its a very simple fact that we cannot use the same methods to learn the natural depth in which our brains function.

Other animals do, but it's constrained to those species that can comprehend truth and reject it.
You think they reject truth? they dont even know there is something called truth as humans know it :p


Your understanding does need a bit of updating. A good route would be education at a local university; however, as a starter Discover magazine recently released a special "The brain" issue and it would serve as a good high level introduction to what you are missing.
Once again subscribing to second hand information which is totally non scientific. I have no choice of reexamining any of those works than to swallow everything that is been taught. It goes on for ever till someone breaks away from the system and does his own study. I guess you need to know the list of autodidacts before you consider recommending such organized social conditioning methods. If i was interested in physics or chemistry or optics or biology, i would have chosen to attend some university. Not to study human psychology.

Hidden / obscured cameras are a great way to observe people so you can catch them in natural settings without them realizing it. Ever been to a shopping mall security department? People don't act like they are being watched even though they are.
After a group of people who have conformed to the existing norms of society? I don't think it would give 100% pure information on human nature. Instead it would give information on socially conditioned people being unobserved. :rolleyes: People carry a lot of information like social laws, languages, social behavioral patterns and so on. Such things would remain to exist even if we have hidden cameras. Now imagine being interviewed and basing the results of a psychology study on such interviews? That's what they did with few twin studies. When we have not much of idea what goes inside our brain, we cant even get close to explaining what goes in there. Instead we begin to explain what we think is going in there. Pure deduction based on existing set of memory patterns. Its quite obvious from studies based on variable cultures.



Here's an experiment that I think you should perform. Simulate a realistic prison environment with your friends... where some are prison guards and others are inmates. See what impact the social heirarchy plays between guards and inmates. You are going to see some things that contradict your ideas big time.
So you have never heard of Stanford prison experiment???
 
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True. That's why I keep mentioning that there is space for a huge error in our judgment that its only genetics+nurture because studies were done using twins to prove the genetics side. It sure does prove that its by birth. But then the next step of associating it completely to genetics is pure speculation. Since they don't even consider the possibility of an extra component, they give the entire credit to genetics. Its the same logic like since there is a creation, there sould be a creator. Because they have already credited genetics with the responsibility, doesn't make it the only component present. There could be several other natural factors as well.

There is no reason to even speculate about other "natural" factors. This isn't a theory of some missing component. Nothing is missing. Consequently the creation / creator anology is flawed because there is no evidence for creation while there is massive amounts of evidence for genetics.

Exactly. That includes the entire human race who have chosen to blindly believe in psychology. Its a very simple fact that we cannot use the same methods to learn the natural depth in which our brains function.

Um, nobody said we could. Psychology is great for categorizing human behavior and to some degree altering it. If you want to learn why we behave the way we do and how our brains operate then we want to turn to neuroscience, evolutionary psychology, genetics, and physics.

You think they reject truth? they dont even know there is something called truth as humans know it :p

Truth means reality corresponds to some concept or notion in your mind. Many animals recognize this correlation (they don't need a "word" for it). Some social species can even reject it (humans, chimps, wolves, and dolphins for example).

Once again subscribing to second hand information which is totally non scientific. I have no choice of reexamining any of those works than to swallow everything that is been taught. It goes on for ever till someone breaks away from the system and does his own study. I guess you need to know the list of autodidacts before you consider recommending such organized social conditioning methods. If i was interested in physics or chemistry or optics or biology, i would have chosen to attend some university. Not to study human psychology.

It's a shame. Biology and neuroscience are a great place to learn about human psychology in a univesity. Additionally, the magazine issue in question isn't speculatory. It's based on solid evidence. Your bias for astrology appears to be one that limits yoo.

After a group of people who have conformed to the existing norms of society? I don't think it would give 100% pure information on human nature. Instead it would give information on socially conditioned people being unobserved. :rolleyes: People carry a lot of information like social laws, languages, social behavioral patterns and so on. Such things would remain to exist even if we have hidden cameras. Now imagine being interviewed and basing the results of a psychology study on such interviews? That's what they did with few twin studies. When we have not much of idea what goes inside our brain, we cant even get close to explaining what goes in there. Instead we begin to explain what we think is going in there. Pure deduction based on existing set of memory patterns. Its quite obvious from studies based on variable cultures.

If multiple cultures are observed, you begin seeing behavioral patterns common to all humans. You even see near-identical patterns in other primates. It doesn't really matter that we don't have the means to figure out the brain in explicit detail right now. What does matter is we don't try to rationalize ignorance with claims that humans can be observed "naturally".

So you have never heard of Stanford prison experiment???

Of course. But if you are familiar with it then you already know it contradicts your ideas. The reason I asked you to do it is because you strike me as the kind of guy whom would rationalize a dismissal the stanford prison experiment results.
 
There is no reason to even speculate about other "natural" factors. This isn't a theory of some missing component. Nothing is missing. Consequently the creation / creator anology is flawed because there is no evidence for creation while there is massive amounts of evidence for genetics.
Ohhh there is. Quite a lot.

Twin studies use the assumption that its all genetics. Its pure assumption and there is not even a single point in history of science they have doubted it. That alone makes it non scientific.

This is from an interview with Richard Tarnas.

Your first book, "The Passion of the Western Mind," published in 1991, is widely taught in universities. You’ve used the word “scandalous" to describe your new book, "Cosmos and Psyche." Why a scandal?

Given current assumptions about the cosmos, it is a scandal for a professor of philosophy to come out with a book that is in any way supportive of astrology. I think it's safe to say that of all perspectives, astrology is the one most subject to automatic rejection and scorn in the modern intellectual world. I myself was skeptical until I conducted my own research. But the evidence is very compelling: There is an astonishingly consistent correlation between planetary alignments and the patterns of human experience. "Cosmos and Psyche" sets out that evidence in a way that readers new to this perspective can examine and assess for themselves. It's a little like Galileo's telescope: Anyone could look through it to see the new universe it revealed, but it was a scandal at the time.

How would you describe the astrological perspective?

Most cultures, including our own prior to the modern era, had some kind of astrology as part of their world view, for they understood the cycles of the moon, sun, and planets as deeply meaningful. The astrological perspective sees the universe as both meaningful and unified. Instead of the modern division between the purposeful, meaning-seeking human consciousness and a random, meaningless universe, astrology points to a universe that is integrated at all levels: outer and inner, macrocosm and microcosm, celestial and terrestrial. As was said by the ancients, "As above, so below."

What would be the advantage of a world view that includes astrology?

The existence of correlations between the planetary cycles and human life makes it possible for both individuals and societies to understand better what archetypal energies are at work and at what time. This can help us be more skillful and aware as we engage in the activities of life. It's like knowing the weather report before going out into the ocean to sail or surf. It helps to know where the winds and waves will be coming from.

But there is also a deeper advantage: Modern civilization pays a high price for living in a universe that it believes is random and spiritually meaningless. Nature is not honored but is instead exploited for short-term benefit. And a purposeless universe creates a sense of deep spiritual emptiness inside, which people try to fill with endless consumer products, so that the industrial technology producing those products is cannibalizing the planet. But as we know, you can never get enough of what you don't really need. A new vision of nature and the universe as ensouled, as spiritually significant, would give a better ground for both moral responsibility and a sense of spiritual belonging.

You can google for more.

Um, nobody said we could. Psychology is great for categorizing human behavior and to some degree altering it. If you want to learn why we behave the way we do and how our brains operate then we want to turn to neuroscience, evolutionary psychology, genetics, and physics.
Sorry. I have to say its a joke. We are more or less socially conditioned to think like psychology says about everything. It only talks about the psychology of a social being. Not a human being. In another thread someone brought up the subject of feral children. That would give you the contrast between a social being and a human being. And that different is psychology.

Neuroscience, evolutionary psychology, genetics and physics do deal with all the physical components. Nothing more. And if you firmly believe that its all physical matter in this universe, I dont think I have anything more to say about it.

It's a shame. Biology and neuroscience are a great place to learn about human psychology in a univesity. Additionally, the magazine issue in question isn't speculatory. It's based on solid evidence. Your bias for astrology appears to be one that limits yoo.
Me biased? Might appear so. But not at all. That's the difference of knowing a field which everyone rejects without even cross examining and looking at them with shock.


If multiple cultures are observed, you begin seeing behavioral patterns common to all humans. You even see near-identical patterns in other primates. It doesn't really matter that we don't have the means to figure out the brain in explicit detail right now. What does matter is we don't try to rationalize ignorance with claims that humans can be observed "naturally".
Sure it doesn't. But can you imagine the magnitude of mistakes one might face when details of our own brain is completely unknown to us? Or misrepresented for all along? We would believe them to be true due to social conditioning and will keep living in deep ignorance. The only choice we have is to cross check the claims with a certain amount of obsession. I can tell you 1000 reasons why one should reject astrology. I myself have rejected the concept for years with a smile on my face. So I would never be surprised by how anyone of you think or believe. I have been there. Done all these chats and arguments with many people and defended science, psychology, neuroscience and chemistry. But I can't do it anymore. Knowledge changes it. Information won't. It would only make you a believer.

Of course. But if you are familiar with it then you already know it contradicts your ideas. The reason I asked you to do it is because you strike me as the kind of guy whom would rationalize a dismissal the stanford prison experiment results.

hmmm... How does it contradict my ideas??? Do you mind explaining? I guess I got a bit confused there.

Do you have a complete list of people and their birthday's who submitted themselves for the experiment? :D
When it comes to any psychological experiment, there are few common factors.
1. Not all zodiacs volunteer themselves for such experiments. Only a particular few consider volunteering for psychological experiments. That alone poses a big threat and an error which no one notices.
2. Each zodiac has a very specific role and quality in his/her natural domain and its altered by the existence of members from certain other zodiac within a group. They act accordingly within the confined zone. Remember its more or less an Operating System. It can function under any circumstances by adapting on to existing set of parameters around.
3. The resulting study always uses statistics in any psychological experiment. If only a particular group of zodiacs volunteer for such studies, then the result is obviously skewed. But no one notices them and believes them to be true for all cases.
 
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Ohhh there is. Quite a lot.

Twin studies use the assumption that its all genetics. Its pure assumption and there is not even a single point in history of science they have doubted it. That alone makes it non scientific.

This is from an interview with Richard Tarnas.

What I meant is that there is no OBJECTIVE reason to speclate about other factors.

Tarnas referrs to astrology with an anology of a telescope that anyone can look through... so where is his "observatory" so everyone can see? He assigns some weird stereotype that modern science views the universe as objectively random and meaningless... which isn't the case (it's an intentional strawman deception). He then tries to equate meaning with purpose... which you cannot do. Purpose requires a life form to assign it and Tarnas is being exceptionally dishonest and predatory by trying to convince people that without purpose you are empty.

Tarnas may be delusional but he's definately a deceptive liar.

Sorry. I have to say its a joke. We are more or less socially conditioned to think like psychology says about everything. It only talks about the psychology of a social being. Not a human being. In another thread someone brought up the subject of feral children. That would give you the contrast between a social being and a human being. And that different is psychology.

I'm not sure what you mean. Human beings are social beings. While I am not sure how you are defining a "feral child", I am guessing such a child is mentally underdeveloped.

Neuroscience, evolutionary psychology, genetics and physics do deal with all the physical components. Nothing more. And if you firmly believe that its all physical matter in this universe, I dont think I have anything more to say about it.

As ooposed to non-physical components? I don't think such a thing exists. I don't think anyone believes the universe is only composed of matter. That is a strawman I often see raised to label people as materialists. Matter is restricted to constructs with atoms. Fields don't have them, dimensions don't have them, forces don't have them, etc.

Me biased? Might appear so. But not at all. That's the difference of knowing a field which everyone rejects without even cross examining and looking at them with shock.

But we all know that if a field studies a real phenomenon then that phenomenon can be demonstrated to exist. That has not been done; whereas, your bias appears to be keeping you away from those things that can be demonstrated to exist.

Sure it doesn't. But can you imagine the magnitude of mistakes one might face when details of our own brain is completely unknown to us? Or misrepresented for all along? We would believe them to be true due to social conditioning and will keep living in deep ignorance. The only choice we have is to cross check the claims with a certain amount of obsession. I can tell you 1000 reasons why one should reject astrology. I myself have rejected the concept for years with a smile on my face. So I would never be surprised by how anyone of you think or believe. I have been there. Done all these chats and arguments with many people and defended science, psychology, neuroscience and chemistry. But I can't do it anymore. Knowledge changes it. Information won't. It would only make you a believer.

Mistakes are fine, science is self correcting as more knowledge is uncovered. While you may have "done all the chats and arguments" in favor of science and against astrology, I suspect that there may have been gaps in your personal knowledge that astrology filled and eventually it stuck. Now you are in a situation where you think it's real but don't appear to be able to demonstrate the mere existence of the phenomena.

hmmm... How does it contradict my ideas??? Do you mind explaining? I guess I got a bit confused there.

No worried. You said social factors only play a secondary role in why people get along; however, the prison experiment showed otherwise beteen guards and inmates.

Do you have a complete list of people and their birthday's who submitted themselves for the experiment? :D

Nope, but you might be able to get them from Stanford.

When it comes to any psychological experiment, there are few common factors.
1. Not all zodiacs volunteer themselves for such experiments. Only a particular few consider volunteering for psychological experiments. That alone poses a big threat and an error which no one notices.
2. Each zodiac has a very specific role and quality in his/her natural domain and its altered by the existence of members from certain other zodiac within a group. They act accordingly within the confined zone. Remember its more or less an Operating System. It can function under any circumstances by adapting on to existing set of parameters around.
3. The resulting study always uses statistics in any psychological experiment. If only a particular group of zodiacs volunteer for such studies, then the result is obviously skewed. But no one notices them and believes them to be true for all cases.

It sounds reminiscent of claims for psychic powers. They are inconsistent, depend on a wide variety of factors, and will never happen when you're looking.
 
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