Assuming God does not exist,

[Teetotaler]

Assuming God does not exist,

Why do we seek to main the existence of our species, when we, personally, do not benefit from the existence of our decendants?

Is consciousness just a biological mechanism for keeping a body full of living cells safe?

If this is so, what does anything matter?

What is the "ultimate goal" of the human being?

What are the top reasons for me to live a moral/virtuous life?

I appreciate your replies.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Assuming God does not exist,

Why do we seek to main the existence of our species, when we, personally, do not benefit from the existence of our decendants?

We do not seek the biological goal of maintaining the existence of our species.

Is consciousness just a biological mechanism for keeping a body full of living cells safe?

Depends what you see as consciousness.

If this is so, what does anything matter?

None of it is so.

What is the "ultimate goal" of the human being?

Depends on which goal we are talking about, biological or personal. Biological would be to fulfil the purpose of our biological existence - to reproduce and give our progeny a chance to reproduce themselves.

What are the top reasons for me to live a moral/virtuous life?

Your own interest to do so and the community's interest you reside in.

 

[Sarkus]

Why do we seek to main the existence of our species, when we, personally, do not benefit from the existence of our decendants?

We don't.
I don't think anyone consciously thinks "Oh, I must procreate in order to maintain the existence of our species."

Procreation is an entirely selfish thing - usually for the pleasurable benefit of the parents.

Is consciousness just a biological mechanism for keeping a body full of living cells safe?

Define consciousness.
But I think evolution has enabled non-conscious (in most senses of the word) life-forms to survive - else they wouldn't be here now.
E.g. the jelly-fish that squirts when attacked.
Trees that have grown hard, protective outer-layers.

If this is so, what does anything matter?

That is a question each can only answer themselves. What DOES it matter TO YOU!?

What is the "ultimate goal" of the human being?

I am not aware of any.
We exist - I think that is all that can be said.

What are the top reasons for me to live a moral/virtuous life?

Harmonious living in a group environment? The group decides what is moral and virtuous and if you want to live in that group you must live such a life - or pay the consequences.

Unfortunately there is no space left on Earth to live the life YOU want free of anyone elses' influence of what is "moral" and "virtuous" - so everyone is indoctrinated with those of the society in which they are brought up.

 

[BSFilter]

The "ultimate goal" of any living thing is to continue living, and not die.

 

[S.A.M.]

The "ultimate goal" of any living thing is to continue living, and not die.

Actually the ultimate goal is to reproduce to ensure that we live on beyond our own lives.

 

[Sarkus]

The "ultimate goal" of any living thing is to continue living, and not die.

Actually the ultimate goal is to reproduce to ensure that we live on beyond our own lives.

Who says that this is our "ultimate goal"? Where is your proof of this?

And samcdkey, are you suggesting that people who don't have, nor who want, children are somehow letting the human race down by not helping us reach this "ultimate goal"?

 

[spuriousmonkey]

And samcdkey, are you suggesting that people who don't have, nor who want, children are somehow letting the human race down by not helping us reach this "ultimate goal"?

No, because there is no species selection. Hence I do not have to worry about my neighbours reproductive success, unless he is a relative.

It's all mostly subconscious though. You don't wake up every morning with the idea that today you are going to make successful offspring. Most of the behaviour is hardwired, such as the mother-child bond, and reinforced by learning.

And you don't have to ask a man if he wants sex every day. If the opportunity is there the average man will grasp it, unless there are unwanted consequences to the act. Such as risk of a disease (lowering his own potential reproductive succes by either catching a disease, or destroying a succesful relationship with someone else), risk of betraying a partnerbond, unattractiveness of the partner etc.
Most behavioral patterns have a biological origin or explanation. Naturally in human society quite a large part of our behaviour can be purely cultural. But usually biological urges are rather strong. You have to remember that YOU are the progeny of a long line of evolutionary success stories. Each of your ancestors managed to reproduce! 100% success rate!!! That's quite a feat, since there have been many more failures.

Of course past success doesn't garantee future success, but each of you out there certainly has the biological potential to be an evolutionary success story.

 

[S.A.M.]

No, because there is no species selection. Hence I do not have to worry about my neighbours reproductive success, unless he is a relative.

It's all mostly subconscious though. You don't wake up every morning with the idea that today you are going to make successful offspring. Most of the behaviour is hardwired, such as the mother-child bond, and reinforced by learning.

And you don't have to ask a man if he wants sex every day. If the opportunity is there the average man will grasp it, unless there are unwanted consequences to the act. Such as risk of a disease (lowering his own potential reproductive succes by either catching a disease, or destroying a succesful relationship with someone else), risk of betraying a partnerbond, unattractiveness of the partner etc.
Most behavioral patterns have a biological origin or explanation. Naturally in human society quite a large part of our behaviour can be purely cultural. But usually biological urges are rather strong. You have to remember that YOU are the progeny of a long line of evolutionary success stories. Each of your ancestors managed to reproduce! 100% success rate!!! That's quite a feat, since there have been many more failures.

Of course past success doesn't garantee future success, but each of you out there certainly has the biological potential to be an evolutionary success story.

Thank you spurious, you are so much better at this !!

 

[Chatha]

I like the idea of another being somewhere, the idea of something better, but not the Christian or Islam doctrine because those just seem too obviously synthetic. To me Islam and Chritianity are more like bad news than good news, any news that has killings involved in it is bad news to me, and a single god is a very lonely God. Religion is an idea that gives people hope and gives them a break from reality, like any other idea there are always extremists and devout believers. Even if there is a God he or she will be asking "why am I here?" If a God or Gods can't answer that then I see no reason why I should bother my self with such question. To me, stuff happens; you find yourself a job in Montana and you ask "why did I get this job?", makes to difference, besides the "function" is always more important than the "reason", and the function can be looking at you right dead in the face while you are looking for a reason. Reason can be man made or misjudged but a function will always remain. Hey maybe you got that job in montana to put food in the good old belly. I believe in people and circumstances and that is the meaning of life, and that is obviously the way God wants it if you look around you. I saw the "Omen" movie last night, not too bad, but its damn hard for me to believe the lord and master of the universe and thousands of galaxies including andromeda, suns and black holes, planets and solar winds...all comes down to an ambassador, a woman, a photographer, a nanny and a rottwieller.

 

[Sarkus]

It's all mostly subconscious though. You don't wake up every morning with the idea that today you are going to make successful offspring. Most of the behaviour is hardwired, such as the mother-child bond, and reinforced by learning.
....
Of course past success doesn't garantee future success, but each of you out there certainly has the biological potential to be an evolutionary success story.

While I don't disagree with much of what you say - my real question is more one of what actually defines this as our "ultimate goal"?

Is following instinct behaviour a goal?

I am of the opinion that nothing has a "goal" or a purpose other than to be what it is and to do what it does - i.e. no real goal at all.
(I'm not talking personal objectives / goals etc that we assign for ourselves on an individual basis etc.)
We are humans - and we do what humans do and will become whatever humans become.
But do we have an ultimate goal?
Is survival a goal? Or just something we've done and will probably continue to do?

To have such a goal would imply someone giving us this goal - i.e. deity/creator etc. But we are assuming there is no God (thread title).

 

[scibetel]

If life has a goal or a purpose, it is to survive long enough to reproduce and then, in a number of instances, to optimize the reproduction chances of the offspring.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

We have instincts. Regardless of your philosophy concerning the nature of the universe, we come with certain desires and preferences programmed into our brains. A fatalist would say they're just accidents of the random way our DNA fell together, a biologist would say that at some point in the past they were survival traits and the individuals who didn't have them died off, and a religionist would say that the goddess breathed them into us on our way down the birth canal. It doesn't matter how or why they're there, they're just there.

We have the instincts to breathe, eat, bundle up when it's cold, avoid charging rhinos, all of which seem suspiciously necessary for a members of a species to survive long enough to reproduce and pass their characteristics on to subsequent generations.

The urge to reproduce--the physical act of intercourse, the affection to care for children, and the more abstract tendency to build a social structure in which future generations can prosper--is the same thing at the species level.

No other animal has humans' vast abilities to think about and affect the course of the future. Still there's nothing terribly remarkable about the fact that since we do have huge brains, language, and complex communities, we invest in the continuity that enhances the survival of our gene pool. The more we develop and the more complex our communities become, the more we become able to think in terms of an ever-larger gene pool, to the point that many of us want our efforts to benefit the entire human race rather than just our nation, tribe, or family. Nonetheless that's just a refinement of the same basic instinct to propagate.

Many of the most highly social animals, including many species of apes and dogs, routinely act in the best interests of the larger community even if they have no offspring of their own to protect.

To call these instincts "goals" is to change the biological discussion to a philosophical one. Some "goals" are programmed by our biology, and this is one of them.

 

[Sci-Phenomena]

I think that life is a state of matter. When the conditions are right, life forms, and if a life formed that didn't want to live, it would die and no longer be alive. So I think the only reason people want to remain alive and well, is because they would be dead already if they didn't have those things in mind.

 

[Teetotaler]

I just don't understand what drives us to reproduce, take care of our children, and create a comfortable social structure for offspring when "we" do not benefit from it at all. When i say we, I mean we at a conscious level. I die and discontinue to exist. If the ultimate goal is to survive, why didn't evolution make its way to infinite lifespans.

Believing in evolution is believing that my body is something other than me. Something is surviving on through my acts of reproduction; and it certainly is not me.

Believing in God is the only way in which we can believe that we are an end versus a means.

 

[Chatha]

The question of God will remain with us till death do us part.

 

[Absane]

The question of God will remain with us till death do us part.

What if there is a God yet no after life? Why do few people question that? Most people I know assume that since there is a God, there must be heaven and hell.

 

[spidergoat]

I just don't understand what drives us to reproduce, take care of our children, and create a comfortable social structure for offspring when "we" do not benefit from it at all. When i say we, I mean we at a conscious level. I die and discontinue to exist. If the ultimate goal is to survive, why didn't evolution make its way to infinite lifespans.

Believing in evolution is believing that my body is something other than me. Something is surviving on through my acts of reproduction; and it certainly is not me.

Believing in God is the only way in which we can believe that we are an end versus a means.

Genes. The genes want to survive, and they don't care too much about you.

 

[Chatha]

What if there is a God yet no after life? Why do few people question that? Most people I know assume that since there is a God, there must be heaven and hell

Well at least it will all be irrelevant upon death, and if there is an actuall heaven and hell then you will know-all the same.

 

[LeeDa]

What do you mean assuming.

 

[Mr. G]

Assuming God does not exist,...

Assuming assumptions do not exist...