Assisted suicide

Should assisted suicide be permitted in terminal patients?


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superstring01

Moderator
Going Gently
Jul 16th 2009
The Economist
The terminally ill should be helped to an easeful death, if they ask for it.



ON JULY 10th two people died whose lives, though long, were shortened by design and with others’ help. Sir Edward Downes, a British conductor, and his wife Joan had travelled to Switzerland, where the law on assisted suicide is the world’s most liberal. He was 85, partly deaf and almost completely blind; she was 74 and had terminal cancer. Holding hands and watched by their son and daughter, they drank a lethal dose of barbiturates and died.

In most of the Western world, suicide is not a crime, but helping another to commit it is. But not all the incapacitated, or terminally ill, or permanently despairing are willing to wait for a natural death, or to take messy and uncertain measures to kill themselves without medical help. Increasingly, they travel to Switzerland, where assisting suicide is a crime only if it is done for gain (around 100 foreigners each year die at Dignitas, a suicide clinic in Zurich) and lobby their governments to change the law at home. In only a few places—Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, the American states of Oregon and Washington—have such efforts succeeded. Most countries muddle along, turning a blind eye to those determined and rich enough to travel to Switzerland. Dignitas—which gives its proceeds to charity—charges SFr10,000 ($9,300).
Kindness and cruelty

British police are investigating the deaths of Sir Edward and Lady Downes, as they have previously investigated the deaths of at least 100 such “suicide tourists”. In no case have they prosecuted those who accompanied the suicides. But last week an amendment that would have guaranteed such people exemption from prosecution, subject to safeguards, was defeated in the House of Lords. The current law, said its defenders, showed a “stern face and a kind heart”, deterring the avaricious from shuffling elderly relatives off to die before they wasted their assets on nursing-home fees, while refraining from vengeance on the broken-hearted bereaved.

Legal fudge is never desirable, and in this case it is unnecessary. It is perfectly possible to frame a law that allows suffering people who are close to death to die quickly and peacefully, if they wish, without declaring open season on old folk. The suicide-seeker declares he is not being pressured to kill himself; two doctors agree, and testify that he is terminally ill and of sound mind. A waiting period before lethal drugs are dispensed ensures that the desire for death is a settled one. Apart from Switzerland, those places that allow assisted suicide have similar safeguards. Such systems do not seem to lead to the normalisation of unnatural death, and thus a steadily rising number of suicides; rather, after an initial surge, the number seeking help to die drops and then stays steady.

A law of this sort would have allowed Lady Downes to die as she wished in her own country. But it would not have covered Sir Edward, old, frail and soon to be bereaved one way or another—but not terminally ill. Nor would Daniel James, a 23-year-old Briton whose parents accompanied him to Dignitas last year, have come within its remit. He had been paralysed in a rugby accident, and wanted to die, but could not kill himself without help. Though severely disabled, he was not terminally ill and could have expected to live for many years.

There is a strong case for allowing people like Sir Edward and Mr James to be helped to die. Their lives were their own, and they wanted to end them. But there is too great a danger that if those who are not terminally ill are allowed an easy way out, greedy relations will put pressure on the elderly to choose to die. Such people should, therefore, be denied that right—however unkind that may seem. The terminally ill, however, should be offered the help they seek. To deny it to them is to add cruelty to misfortune.

This may already be a subject elsewhere, but I found this article interesting.

I've come to the conclusion that in our obsession with extending life has taken the dignity out of much of the twilight of our lives. To balance this fact, I think that under very controlled circumstances, people should be allowed to pass--with assistance if necessary--into death.

I figure that there comes a point where prolonging life is far more cruel and offensive to the person than forcing them to stay alive and endure only pain and suffering.

My personal perspective:
  • If the content of pain so overshadows the purpose of living, then the individual should be given the choice.
  • A doctor should be allowed to administer whatever levels of medicine is necessary to stop the patient's pain. If the dosage of medicine has the secondary effect of [for example]: harming organs, stopping cardio-pulminary and brain activity, then it should be permitted so long as the primary intention is to ease and stop the patient's suffering.

~String
 
String,

My Mom died last week. In a way she was a lucky one. She had done pretty well most of her life until the dreaded broken hip. She went pretty quick after that. Hospice was giving her plenty of morphine.

After visits to the nursing home over the past few months. There are a lot of people who's quality of life is somewhat questionable from what I have seen. Is it living or just existing.

I have to say yes... it should be up to the person to be "allowed" to make the choice. I really feel that I want to move to a state that allows such a thing.
 
I currently work in a nursing home and upon witnessing the pain some residents endure I would definitely have to say yes. Some are just sent to die from terminal diseases. The worst part of it is the long drawn out process of reaching their death.
 
i compleatly agree string. Doctor assisted suicide and vollentry euthanasia (two different things BTW:p) should be legalise, i even wrote a paper on how to improve a bill that was before the SA parliment for that very purpose. The public surport, not to mention the surport from the health care proffessionals in this area and the families of pts with terminal illness not to mention the pts themselves is OVERWHELMINGLY in surport of VE yet for some reason goverments just dont have the political will to put the question before the house.

One did (the NT) but sadly because they are a territory the former federal goverment used its territory powers to crush that law. Interestinly if the NT was ever made a state on the day it happened VE would become legal again because the power used didnt end the law, just stoped the territories from exercising it and that power cant be used against the states
 
I currently work in a nursing home and upon witnessing the pain some residents endure I would definitely have to say yes. Some are just sent to die from terminal diseases. The worst part of it is the long drawn out process of reaching their death.

i ment to put something in my post about this. Under "Gold standed" palitive care the most they can do for these pts is called "Cemical Oblivian". What it means is that large doses of both morphine and a drug called medazalam (an antisetic) are used to put the pt into an unconciouse state (though not enough to cause respitory failure). They can be in this for days or weeks, feed by a drip until they die. However it takes alot of tweaking to get the doses right and lots of pts keep waking up and repeatedly having to go through the "Saying goodbye" ritual (i guess you would call it). Not to mention the strain this puts on family. Most end up dying from untreated pnemonia rather than from a quick painless adminstration of for instance lethal doses of morphine (which remove the desire to breath which is different from resp failure from say asphixia)
 
Where is Brian Foley? I would have thought he would be all over this thread.

Anyway you have all heard my rant on this before. Yes I agree we should allow people to choose assisted suicide, euthanasia, anything that will ease suffering and allow for a dignified death.
 
Odd. People seem to be in favor of this every time I talk to them. I wonder what the hold-up is in giving people a dignified exit that they deserve.

~String
 
Yes, If that is what they want, it should be their decision. They are the only ones who really know what kind of pain they are living with.
 
Religious ppl ....easing suffering? I guess all those catholic pedophile priests don't believe in that. I wonder how many ppl are suffering out there as a result of being taken in by a religion.
 
Religious ppl ....easing suffering? I guess all those catholic pedophile priests don't believe in that. I wonder how many ppl are suffering out there as a result of being taken in by a religion.

I'm sure the numbers would be staggering.
 
Indeed.

I find it remarkable that it's the religious people who are least in favor of things that seem to be quite religious in nature. Easing suffering, being one of the biggest ones.

Geez, String, that's not "remarkable" at all. Unless I'm sadly mistaken, virtually every religion in the world has tenets which forbid taking ones own or anyone else's life. It's not the "easing of suffering" that's the issue, it's the taking of life.

Baron Max
 
Geez, String, that's not "remarkable" at all. Unless I'm sadly mistaken, virtually every religion in the world has tenets which forbid taking ones own or anyone else's life. It's not the "easing of suffering" that's the issue, it's the taking of life.

Baron Max

I get that part. What I don't get is their unwillingness to counterballance our society's forcing of old, dying, in pain, people to live longer and longer lives. Some counterballance has to be allowed and people should be allowed to leave this life with some dignity. I don't want to die peacefully. I want to be stood up and shot. I'm not afraid of guns. I want them to come to me and say, "Daniel, you've got one hour to life. We're going to chase you down. Your family and friends are here to say good bye to you. We've prepared a great meal for you. Here are some cloths and weapons that work. In one hour you will run. 10 minutes later we'll be coming for you (without dogs, that's just unfair). I want a fire-fight in an old town. I want my Kimber Custom Chrome with me and the bolt-action riffle my father gave me a few years ago.

Nothing like being hunted to death, to make the last moments of your life so totally alive. No regrets there. None.

~String
 
Die when you decide.

Water is readily available and quite fatal if you drink a sufficient quantity fast enough.

Water intoxication provokes disturbances in electrolyte balance, resulting in a rapid decrease in serum sodium concentration and eventual death. The development of acute dilutional hyponatraemia causes neurological symptoms because of the movement of water into the brain cells, in response to the fall in extracellular osmolality. Symptoms can become apparent when the serum sodium falls below 120 mmol/litre, but are usually associated with concentrations below 110 mmol/litre. Severe symptoms occur with very low sodium concentrations of 90–105 mmol/litre. As the sodium concentration falls, the symptoms progress from confusion to drowsiness and eventually coma. However, the rate at which the sodium concentration falls is also an important factor, and the acute intake of large volumes of water over a short period of time, as occurred in this case, would have produced a rapid drop in serum sodium, which was fatal.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1770067

I would shoot for a gallon in under 20 min. but the exact rate varies depending on health, salt concentration, kidney function, etc.

Needless to say this is one thing you shouldn't practice and it can be fatal.
 
Suicide is a choice. Let individuals make it for themselves.

Yeah, nice thought. But didn't you miss the added little part of "assisted" suicide? Once a person has waiting too long, and can't do it themselves, they might want someone else to help them die. See? Assisted?

Baron Max
 
I get that part. What I don't get is their unwillingness to counterballance our society's forcing of old, dying, in pain, people to live longer and longer lives. Some counterballance has to be allowed and people should be allowed to leave this life with some dignity. I don't want to die peacefully. I want to be stood up and shot. I'm not afraid of guns. I want them to come to me and say, "Daniel, you've got one hour to life. We're going to chase you down. Your family and friends are here to say good bye to you. We've prepared a great meal for you. Here are some cloths and weapons that work. In one hour you will run. 10 minutes later we'll be coming for you (without dogs, that's just unfair). I want a fire-fight in an old town. I want my Kimber Custom Chrome with me and the bolt-action riffle my father gave me a few years ago.

Nothing like being hunted to death, to make the last moments of your life so totally alive. No regrets there. None.

~String

Damn, this post messed up my adrenaline level, I was gonna go sleep in a few minutes :D:D

That does, indeed, sound like a really cool way to die. Fuck going peacefully in my sleep.

I'm in favour of assisted suicide. I have no patience with those who believe in forcing people to stay alive against their will. They are doing that for themselves, not the person with the illness.
 
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