Army dismisses gay Arabic linguist

[S.A.M.]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060727...0fUqKqs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-

A decorated sergeant and Arabic language specialist was dismissed from the U.S. Army under the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, though he says he never told his superiors he was gay and his accuser was never identified.

Bleu Copas, 30, told The Associated Press he is gay, but said he was "outed" by a stream of anonymous e-mails to his superiors in the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, N.C.

"I knew the policy going in," Copas said in an interview on the campus of East Tennessee State University, where he is pursuing a master's degree in counseling and working as a student adviser. "I knew it was going to be difficult."

An eight-month Army investigation culminated in Copas' honorable discharge on Jan. 30 — less than four years after he enlisted, he said, out of a post-Sept. 11 sense of duty to his country.

Copas now carries the discharge papers, which mention his awards and citations, so he can document his military service for prospective employers. But the papers also give the reason for his dismissal.

He plans to appeal to the Army Board for Correction of Military Records.

The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, established in 1993, prohibits the military from inquiring about the sex lives of service members, but requires discharges of those who openly acknowledge being gay.


Question:
Is there a reason for this discharge policy? Is it right?
I'd like some reasons for why you voted as you did

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

On the Daily Show tonight, it was disclosed that the linguist delivered a blistering speech opposed to the policy and also made some touching points about personal issues. Unfortunately we'll never know what he said because there is no one left in the Army who understands Arabic.

 

[Genji]

Ahh the US military is struggling with morality issues as it's troops rape & murder women and kids in Iraq and force male prisoners to perform sex acts with eachother. God Forbid a useful soldier is....Gay! I voted no opinion because the US military is run by war criminals and is too immoral for me to support, let alone encourage gays to join. It's one blunder after another with the military. They can't even subdue a 3rd World country and they think gays will diminish their 'respectability. ' What a joke.

 

[S.A.M.]

On the Daily Show tonight, it was disclosed that the linguist delivered a blistering speech opposed to the policy and also made some touching points about personal issues. Unfortunately we'll never know what he said because there is no one left in the Army who understands Arabic.

Yes that's where I got it too. I'm an ardent fan. Also the Colbert show

I've been watching the news continuously over the last two weeks so I guess this was not important enough for mainstream media.

 

[Provita]

Did they dismiss him because he was gay? Or did the media see a soldier dismissed, who was coincidentally openly gay, and thought up a juicy story? I say no opinion until I learn otherwise.

 

[Genji]

Did they dismiss him because he was gay? Or did the media see a soldier dismissed, who was coincidentally openly gay, and thought up a juicy story? I say no opinion until I learn otherwise.

I read he told someone in the military he was gay. That's all it takes. This story has been around for awhile.

 

[S.A.M.]

Did they dismiss him because he was gay? Or did the media see a soldier dismissed, who was coincidentally openly gay, and thought up a juicy story? I say no opinion until I learn otherwise.

"But the papers also give the reason for his dismissal."

 

[Prince_James]

I voted "yes", on the foundation that it is impossible to retain discipline and troop morale in a sexualized atmosphere. There must be a fundamentally non-sexual aspect to allow for the utter trust and lack of self-consciousness that soldiering demands. Worrying that another man - or a woman, for that matter - may be "checking one out", or seeking some sort of sexual service from oneself, is contrary to this on all levels. It is also why strict segregation betwixt men and women in the military must be maintained, and ideally, women excluded from the process all together.

 

[Prince_James]

I would also point out the blatantly hypocritical stance of affording the Daily Show and the Colbert Report an objective status, when few would give the same legitimacy to Right-wing television and radio shows, which make no qualms about declaring themselves Conservative, like the Daily Show and Colbert Report declare themselves Liberal.

 

[S.A.M.]

I would also point out the blatantly hypocritical stance of affording the Daily Show and the Colbert Report an objective status, when few would give the same legitimacy to Right-wing television and radio shows, which make no qualms about declaring themselves Conservative, like the Daily Show and Colbert Report declare themselves Liberal.

Reminder: The Daily Show and The Colbert Show are aired on The Comedy Channel

 

[Prince_James]

Samcdkey:

Most people don't seem to take that into consideration, sadly. Specifically with the acclaim given to both, and the preeminence afforded to both Stewart and, to a far lesser extent, Colbert, we seem to have come to totally forget the fact that the show is primarily of comedic, rather than social, value.

 

[Tiassa]

Re: Daily Show & Colbert Report

Even the journalists forget the distinction. After all, Tucker Carlson couldn't seem to fathom the importance of the fact that many Americans prefer to get their news from a comedy show. It just shows to what depths the news has fallen.

Re: topic issue

I think such episodes show one of the big problems the U.S. faces as a society. Its culture is so centered around superficiality that, at a time when we need as many Arab linguists in the services as we can get, anonymous accusations of homosexuality take precedence. The 2004 election was a nightmarish characterization of the American people. It is difficult to imagine that our culture has fallen to such petty standards, but as a bloody video game (Deus Ex) reminds us, a government centered on the lowest qualities of people will produce those qualities in its leaders.

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

Until they can produce evidence of how gay soldiers effects the efficient murder of innocent civilians then I see no reason why he shouldn't be allowed to continue to perform his duties, particuarly as he can better uderstand the victims 'last words'.

 

[Prince_James]

TheoryOfRelativity:

Are you suggesting that the campaign in Iraq is primarily aimed at the annihilation of civilians?

Tissa:

"I think such episodes show one of the big problems the U.S. faces as a society. Its culture is so centered around superficiality that, at a time when we need as many Arab linguists in the services as we can get, anonymous accusations of homosexuality take precedence. The 2004 election was a nightmarish characterization of the American people. It is difficult to imagine that our culture has fallen to such petty standards, but as a bloody video game (Deus Ex) reminds us, a government centered on the lowest qualities of people will produce those qualities in its leaders. "

How was it a "nightmarish characterization" of the American people?

 

[Tiassa]

How was it a "nightmarish characterization" of the American people?

Amid a so-called war on terror, the idea that a county clerk following the established law is somehow a usurpation of democracy? (e.g. gay marriage bans)

A people so revved-up for war that they'll believe lies and accept the rejection of truth as an American principle? (e.g. Swift Vets)

The tacit admission that our electoral system is so screwed up that we might never know who our actual elected president is again? (e.g. Florida 2000, 2002; Ohio 2004)

The people's endorsement of a failed policy rejected by a former president as barbaric? (e.g. "Bush Doctrine" and Bush's re-election)

Did you ever notice that, on the red-blue map after the 2004 election, the areas that didn't go for Bush were areas with a lot to lose as long as the federal government continues to ignore port security?

The 2004 election was not an encouraging, comforting, or bright moment in American history. As to the issue of this topic: I think that anonymous accusations against an Arab linguist being grounds for his dismissal in the middle of a war when we need every good Arab linguist we can get pretty much demonstrates the priorities of our nation. And if people find those good and proper priorities, we have certainly attained the luxury of a pettiness previously unknown among humanity. You would think, watching the 2004 election, and now this episode, that maybe the televangelists had it right when they blamed gays and feminists for the 9/11 bombings. Or, at least, you might think that the American people believe that. I'm incredibly cynical about my fellow Americans, but things like this defy even my sense of the sardonic. Really, even on September 12, 2001, I could not have predicted with a straight face that things would get this damnably ridiculous. Sure, I might have bellowed it or prophesied direly about knee-jerk overreactions, but nothing truly rational would have predicted this. In part because its irrationality is so tremendous and looming. Americans, it would seem, are scared of terrorists, but terrified by homosexuality.

What's that line in the song? "And the home of the brave"?

Balderdash!

 

[Prince_James]

Tiassa:

"Amid a so-called war on terror, the idea that a county clerk following the established law is somehow a usurpation of democracy? (e.g. gay marriage bans)"

County-clerks never had the power to marry people of the same sex. Considering that would require a change in the laws, this is indeed a usurption of the democratic process, as our laws are determined by legislatures elected by a voting populace.

"A people so revved-up for war that they'll believe lies and accept the rejection of truth as an American principle? (e.g. Swift Vets)"

The Switchboat Veterens released a book publishing comrades of John Kerry claiming that he didn't deserve what he got for his service. John Kerry never gave a thorough denial of this, nor refuted the book, nor did people come up and write a counter-book or anything of the like. In essence, even if spurious - I have not read my copy of "Unfit for Command" - there was no denial.

"The tacit admission that our electoral system is so screwed up that we might never know who our actual elected president is again? (e.g. Florida 2000, 2002; Ohio 2004)"

How is our electoral system so screwed? Every voting system breaks down when it is so close as to be within the margins of error. In Ohio, this was actually not the case, it simply took till very early in the morning to find out who won and who did not. Bush won by a significant margin (I think 150,000 votes) as opposed to only by a very small one (3,000).

"The people's endorsement of a failed policy rejected by a former president as barbaric? (e.g. "Bush Doctrine" and Bush's re-election)"

What former president rejected it as "barbaric" and how is the "Bush Doctrine" a failure?

"Did you ever notice that, on the red-blue map after the 2004 election, the areas that didn't go for Bush were areas with a lot to lose as long as the federal government continues to ignore port security?"

Actually, the "red-blue areas" do not actively reflect the states in questions. Few states were more than borderline Bush or Kerry. Therefore, if we took the votes before "winning", we'd find little dots of blue and red all over each state, with some states - like Illinois and Texas, for Democrat and Republican - just more dominated by blue or red.

Moreover, how do you suggest we improve port security?

"As to the issue of this topic: I think that anonymous accusations against an Arab linguist being grounds for his dismissal in the middle of a war when we need every good Arab linguist we can get pretty much demonstrates the priorities of our nation."

When an accusation is made, it must be investigated. Apparently, it was investigated and found to be true. The laws of the military are such that you cannot be gay and be part of the military. Hence, you must remove this person. There are other Arabic linguists that can be hired.

"Americans, it would seem, are scared of terrorists, but terrified by homosexuality."

One can attack us with weapons, the other can completely alter our culture and potentially even warp the values of this culture so as to destroy us. Not to say that homosexuality is fundamentally destructive, but any dramatic change to a culture can bring about its destruction. Cultures are more prone to be damaged by these "spiritual" things than material things.

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

TheoryOfRelativity:

Are you suggesting that the campaign in Iraq is primarily aimed at the annihilation of civilians?

Of course, they could have taken saddam at any time, they chose to fuck the place up first.

 

[Hapsburg]

I voted "yes", on the foundation that it is impossible to retain discipline and troop morale in a sexualized atmosphere.

Ever heard of the "Sacred Band of Thebes"?

 

[The Devil Inside]

Yes that's where I got it too. I'm an ardent fan. Also the Colbert show

I've been watching the news continuously over the last two weeks so I guess this was not important enough for mainstream media.

did you know that stephen colbert has publicly stated that he doesnt believe the things he says on air?!

regardless, i am a big fan of his dry-ass sense of humor as well.

 

[S.A.M.]

did you know that stephen colbert has publicly stated that he doesnt believe the things he says on air?!

regardless, i am a big fan of his dry-ass sense of humor as well.

I don't agree with many things he says either, but what does that have to do with anything?

I can understand differences in beliefs, its the intolerant or uncomprehending that I take issue with.

PS I also like The Family Guy and South Park but does not mean I agree with them either!