i would also have to say i have alot of the same feelings. although it is ironic at least in my case how accurate the name book was on my name.c7ityi_ said:
are you your name?
- Thread starter gratitude&love
- Start date
all of the statements you provided above are of one of the following natures: a) so general that it could apply to anyone; b) the sort of thing that people like to believe; c) patently silly. 'b' implies negativity? what about boon? benefactor? benevolence? beauty? bliss? sure, i'd like to think i could charm the stripes off a sergeant, but who am i kidding?
i notice especially in the description of rebecca that there appear to be direct contradictions in these descriptions. as far as i can tell this one is quite inaccurate, however.
the similarities it is making are tied into the english language and inaccurate. 'b' can just as easily be applied to pleasant words: benefactor, boon, bliss, benevolence, bonus. k/c can appear in words such as cute, creative, classic. the theories appear to be all wrong. congrats on buying into the nonsense!
i notice especially in the description of rebecca that there appear to be direct contradictions in these descriptions. as far as i can tell this one is quite inaccurate, however.
the similarities it is making are tied into the english language and inaccurate. 'b' can just as easily be applied to pleasant words: benefactor, boon, bliss, benevolence, bonus. k/c can appear in words such as cute, creative, classic. the theories appear to be all wrong. congrats on buying into the nonsense!
Grat:
What does your book say about the name, Andrew?
Names are a pretty interesting subject. In this book I read, Freakonomics, economist Steve Levitt through statistical analyses techniques found that there is a trend of middle and lower-class people using names of people of higher class to name their childen. The upper class tend to make up crazy odd names that eventually, through time, become normal (because others have copied them). Whether or not they do this consciously in hopes that it will advantage their children, it is not known. He notes, however, that blacks tend to not do this. They tend to stick with black names to maintain solidarity the others.
What does your book say about the name, Andrew?
Names are a pretty interesting subject. In this book I read, Freakonomics, economist Steve Levitt through statistical analyses techniques found that there is a trend of middle and lower-class people using names of people of higher class to name their childen. The upper class tend to make up crazy odd names that eventually, through time, become normal (because others have copied them). Whether or not they do this consciously in hopes that it will advantage their children, it is not known. He notes, however, that blacks tend to not do this. They tend to stick with black names to maintain solidarity the others.
Gratitude:
First off, might you be willing to tell me what "James" is in your book? I'd be curious.
Secondly, let me quote an extensive portion of the book "Chapterhouse: Dune" by Frank Herbert. It is a conversation betwixt Duncan Idaho and Miles Teg. I shall attempt, however, to avoid any spoilers, but if I miss any, I shall caution reading via stating this one:
POTENTIAL SPOILER ALERT!
With that being said, here goes nothing:
"And our Bashar has just the plan."
"Damn that title!"
Idaho inhaled a sharp breath restricted by shock.
"Tell you something, Duncan!" Intense. "Once when I was arriving for an important meeting with potential enemies, I heard an aide announce me. 'The Bashar is here.' I damned near stumbled, caught by the abstraction."
"Mentat blur."
"Of course it was. But I knew the title removed me from something I did not dare lose. Bashar? I was more than that! I was Miles Teg, the name given me by my parents."
"You were on the name-chain!"
"Certainly, and I realized my name stood at a distance from something more primal. Miles Teg? No, I was more basic than that. I could hear my mother saying, 'Oh, what a beautiful baby.' So there I was with another name: 'Beautiful Baby.' "
"Did you go deeper?" Idaho found himself fascinated.
"I was caught. Name leads to name leads to name leads to nameless. When I walked into that important room, I was nameless. Did you ever risk that?"
"Once." A reluctant admission.
"We all do it at least once."
"But there I was. I'd been briefed. I had a reference for everyone at that table -- face, name, title, plus all of the backgrounding."
"But you weren't really there."
"Oh, I could see the expectant faces measuring me, wondering, worrying. But they did not know me!"
"That gave you a feeling of great power?"
"Exactly as we were warned in Mentat school. I asked myself: 'Is this Mind at its beginning?' Don't laugh. It's a tantalizing question."
"So you went deeper?" Caught by Teg's words, Idaho ignored tugs of warning at the edge of his awareness.
"Oh, yes. And I found myself in the famous 'Hall of Mirrors' they described and warned us to flee."
"So you remembered how to get out and . . ."
"Remembered? You've obviously been there. Did memory get you out?"
"It helped."
"Despite the warnings, I lingered, seeing my 'self of selves' and infinite permutations. Reflections of reflections ad infinitum."
"Fascination of the 'ego core.' Damn few ever escape from that depth. You were lucky."
"I'm not sure it should be called luck. I knew there must be a First Awareness, an awakening . . ."
"Which discovers it is not the first."
"But I wanted a self at the root of the self!"
"Didn't the people at this meeting notice anything odd about you?"
"I found out later I sat down with a wooden expression that concealed these mental gymnastics."
"You didn't speak?"
"I was struck dumb. This was interpreted as 'the Bashar's expected reticence.' So much for reputation."
[...]
Most Mentats risked one dip into Infinity and learned the transient nature of names and titles but Teg's account was much more than a statement about Time as flow and tableau.
End of quote.
First off, might you be willing to tell me what "James" is in your book? I'd be curious.
Secondly, let me quote an extensive portion of the book "Chapterhouse: Dune" by Frank Herbert. It is a conversation betwixt Duncan Idaho and Miles Teg. I shall attempt, however, to avoid any spoilers, but if I miss any, I shall caution reading via stating this one:
POTENTIAL SPOILER ALERT!
With that being said, here goes nothing:
"And our Bashar has just the plan."
"Damn that title!"
Idaho inhaled a sharp breath restricted by shock.
"Tell you something, Duncan!" Intense. "Once when I was arriving for an important meeting with potential enemies, I heard an aide announce me. 'The Bashar is here.' I damned near stumbled, caught by the abstraction."
"Mentat blur."
"Of course it was. But I knew the title removed me from something I did not dare lose. Bashar? I was more than that! I was Miles Teg, the name given me by my parents."
"You were on the name-chain!"
"Certainly, and I realized my name stood at a distance from something more primal. Miles Teg? No, I was more basic than that. I could hear my mother saying, 'Oh, what a beautiful baby.' So there I was with another name: 'Beautiful Baby.' "
"Did you go deeper?" Idaho found himself fascinated.
"I was caught. Name leads to name leads to name leads to nameless. When I walked into that important room, I was nameless. Did you ever risk that?"
"Once." A reluctant admission.
"We all do it at least once."
"But there I was. I'd been briefed. I had a reference for everyone at that table -- face, name, title, plus all of the backgrounding."
"But you weren't really there."
"Oh, I could see the expectant faces measuring me, wondering, worrying. But they did not know me!"
"That gave you a feeling of great power?"
"Exactly as we were warned in Mentat school. I asked myself: 'Is this Mind at its beginning?' Don't laugh. It's a tantalizing question."
"So you went deeper?" Caught by Teg's words, Idaho ignored tugs of warning at the edge of his awareness.
"Oh, yes. And I found myself in the famous 'Hall of Mirrors' they described and warned us to flee."
"So you remembered how to get out and . . ."
"Remembered? You've obviously been there. Did memory get you out?"
"It helped."
"Despite the warnings, I lingered, seeing my 'self of selves' and infinite permutations. Reflections of reflections ad infinitum."
"Fascination of the 'ego core.' Damn few ever escape from that depth. You were lucky."
"I'm not sure it should be called luck. I knew there must be a First Awareness, an awakening . . ."
"Which discovers it is not the first."
"But I wanted a self at the root of the self!"
"Didn't the people at this meeting notice anything odd about you?"
"I found out later I sat down with a wooden expression that concealed these mental gymnastics."
"You didn't speak?"
"I was struck dumb. This was interpreted as 'the Bashar's expected reticence.' So much for reputation."
[...]
Most Mentats risked one dip into Infinity and learned the transient nature of names and titles but Teg's account was much more than a statement about Time as flow and tableau.
End of quote.
funny this should come up in a conversation I am involved with. my first name is Cato, and I have no middle name. my parents intended me to decide later if I liked the name Cato, and if I didn't, I would change it to my middle name and take a new first name.
as you can see, Cato stuck. although, since I have no middle name, it makes filling out online forms difficult. most of the important things allow you to enter nothing or a space into the "middle name" field, but I have had some websites require a letter, which is kinda BS.
Cato:
Put in "J." for "Jay", like Homer J.
Put in "J." for "Jay", like Homer J.
Ha!
Onefinity:
Glad to show it.
Glad to show it.
Can you analyise the name "David"?. Just curious.
"if we take these notions seriously we could believe that charles manson was predispositioned to be a slasher conman."
Truly scientific.
*cough*
rhamnose clans, monarchal sens, shorn manacles, canon harmless,
horseman clans, monarchal ness, horns manacles, anon charmless,
normals encash, anchorman less, chanson realms, chromes annals,
salmon ranches, norman clashes, nonce marshals, clamors hansen,
monarchs leans, anchorless man, loran chessman, shalom scanner,
monarchs lanes, carlson ashmen, hanlon screams, shalom canners,
sansom charnel, ranchos mensal, rancho manless, roams channels,
samson charnel, ranchos anselm, charon manless, osram channels,
masons charnel, anchors mensal, archon manless, morass channel,
cornmeal snash, anchors anselm, anchor manless, soles ranchman,
Truly scientific.
*cough*
rhamnose clans, monarchal sens, shorn manacles, canon harmless,
horseman clans, monarchal ness, horns manacles, anon charmless,
normals encash, anchorman less, chanson realms, chromes annals,
salmon ranches, norman clashes, nonce marshals, clamors hansen,
monarchs leans, anchorless man, loran chessman, shalom scanner,
monarchs lanes, carlson ashmen, hanlon screams, shalom canners,
sansom charnel, ranchos mensal, rancho manless, roams channels,
samson charnel, ranchos anselm, charon manless, osram channels,
masons charnel, anchors mensal, archon manless, morass channel,
cornmeal snash, anchors anselm, anchor manless, soles ranchman,
Perfect said:
Um... are you on my contact list?
Ah yes. but thats not my name.
Or.. Are you, your username?
I don't know.
But, I am actually Scott Myers!
I don't know.
But, I am actually Scott Myers!
There are several problems with names:
1. Languages.
- An international name has different connotations depending on the language it is used in. The connotations "Robert" has to a Brit, are not the same "Robert" has to a German, or to a Croatian.
- Many names are language-specific, and intranslatable. Perfect should post some Finnish names, see what that fancy book has to say about them.
2. "Growing up to match a name", the same syndrome happens with horoscope signs.
For example, if your name is Martha, then, since this is deemed a serious name, you are supposed to grow up into a serious person.
(Onymically superstitious) people might treat a Martha differently than a Becky, but the effects of these differences of treatment ARE REAL. A Becky may do stupid shit, and it's okay, because she's a Becky, but a Martha must be serious, because Martha is a serious name.
You can see this in kindergardens where some nurses prefer children with cool names, and devote more time and attention to them. While the children with more common names are treated more commonly, with less attention. No wonder they then also become more "common", more serious.
I'm not sure how true this is for the English speakers, but it is rampant here, where we have a flood of foreign names. You get a class of kids where a half of them has typical Slovene names. Some of them have some odd novelties, but still Slovene. And then there are the kids with imported names you can hardly pronounce, and you bet they have them just so the parents could feel special. But because the name is special, the kid may become special too, since he is treated with more attention (as the odd name draws more attention).
1. Languages.
- An international name has different connotations depending on the language it is used in. The connotations "Robert" has to a Brit, are not the same "Robert" has to a German, or to a Croatian.
- Many names are language-specific, and intranslatable. Perfect should post some Finnish names, see what that fancy book has to say about them.
2. "Growing up to match a name", the same syndrome happens with horoscope signs.
For example, if your name is Martha, then, since this is deemed a serious name, you are supposed to grow up into a serious person.
(Onymically superstitious) people might treat a Martha differently than a Becky, but the effects of these differences of treatment ARE REAL. A Becky may do stupid shit, and it's okay, because she's a Becky, but a Martha must be serious, because Martha is a serious name.
You can see this in kindergardens where some nurses prefer children with cool names, and devote more time and attention to them. While the children with more common names are treated more commonly, with less attention. No wonder they then also become more "common", more serious.
I'm not sure how true this is for the English speakers, but it is rampant here, where we have a flood of foreign names. You get a class of kids where a half of them has typical Slovene names. Some of them have some odd novelties, but still Slovene. And then there are the kids with imported names you can hardly pronounce, and you bet they have them just so the parents could feel special. But because the name is special, the kid may become special too, since he is treated with more attention (as the odd name draws more attention).
Water has already hit on the main point, but I'll add a little but. Letters are actually an inaccurate description of sounds: take knives, take, clock (the k doesn't mean a thing). Any person who has taken a Linguistics class would write the book in IPA (the internation phonetic alphabet). Only then could they begin to discuss the universal nature of some sounds. Furthermore, it's a pretty well accepted notion that specific sounds do not carry meaning by themselves. There's plenty of studies to prove it (pick up any beginner level linguistics book). An example would be Japanese: the "sounds" are actually a combination of 2 sounds, a consonent and a vowel. The sound /k/ doesn't mean anything to a Japanese person because they consider syllables. Actually, in most languages, they do not have "letters" for specific sounds. The only lanuage to invent such a system was the Greeks and all sound based alphabets sprung from it.
A meaning associated with sounds is subject only to individuals, some just happen to think like others. The meaning is inherent only in the frequency in the words you use day to day, and even more importantly, the ones you really think about. You're more likely to associate sound meanings with their use in major adjectives and verbs (look at the lists given). So why not nouns? Because they are so easily borrowed, it would too quickly disprove the theory. Perhaps you could tell me what the "th" in Esther means? Is it associated with "the" or "with" or "tall"? (Notice that the "th" is actually 3 completely different sounds) How does he account for that?
Something important to bear in mind: spelling comes from sounds, not the other way around. Spoken lanuage always occurs before written. If he's not discussing sounds then his theory can't be used in most of the worlds lanuages (which do not use our alphabet).
I'm sorry if it's a long winded argument, but linguists have worked long and hard to debunk the pseudo-science perception of their field. I would hate to see someone reverse all their hard work on a whim.
A meaning associated with sounds is subject only to individuals, some just happen to think like others. The meaning is inherent only in the frequency in the words you use day to day, and even more importantly, the ones you really think about. You're more likely to associate sound meanings with their use in major adjectives and verbs (look at the lists given). So why not nouns? Because they are so easily borrowed, it would too quickly disprove the theory. Perhaps you could tell me what the "th" in Esther means? Is it associated with "the" or "with" or "tall"? (Notice that the "th" is actually 3 completely different sounds) How does he account for that?
Something important to bear in mind: spelling comes from sounds, not the other way around. Spoken lanuage always occurs before written. If he's not discussing sounds then his theory can't be used in most of the worlds lanuages (which do not use our alphabet).
I'm sorry if it's a long winded argument, but linguists have worked long and hard to debunk the pseudo-science perception of their field. I would hate to see someone reverse all their hard work on a whim.