Are You Good or Evil?

Bells said:
If a person's actions were centered upon the welfare of the community at large as you've defined as good, then one could view murder or actions of war, for example, as being good if it benefits the whole community.

This is the problem with secular government taking charge away from the priests. See how easy it is for a person to suppose that predation and war are truly big hearted gifts of selflessness.

No, I don't think so. In fact, where many ethicists insist that violence in self-defense of property is permissable, even that is debatable. Too often in History we have had evidence of Civilized Communities 'civilizing' their conquerors. Europe civilized the huns and the Norseman. The Chinese civilized their Mogols. and Civilizing the aggressors does seem to be a more elegant solution then killing them. Yet the point remains debatable, since whenever a Civilization is tested, it is always the most recently civilized elements who re-barbarize first.

So, no, one should be careful not to stretch Good so far that it has you committing predatory acts of selfishness, no matter whom you think may gain by it.

I suppose the test is a Pure Heart.

I wonder that barbaric enclaves could not be invaded in order to put them under civilized Jurisdiction 'with a Pure Heart'. It would require that the action be in every way a 'sacrifice'. Supposing that your constituents will be able to buy up some Plantations and Ranch Land cheap sort of turnishes the altruism of it all, no?
 
robtex said:
Paragraph 4: I don't believe I remember reading Jesus talking about sex in the NT. I went to biblegateway.com and typed in

1) jesus, sex
2) christ, sex
3) sex, heaven

Try 'marriage' for sex. In the bible they use 'marriage' as a euphemism for the 's' word.

I typed MARRIAGE HEAVEN ANGELS into blueletterbible.com and it came up instantly with Mathew 22:30 -- in heaven we will not have genetalia but will be like the Angels.
 
what768 said:
I don't think there are many people who "want" to be evil.

Certainly there are. Everyone who wants to screw somebody over on a used car deal is intentionally wanting to be evil. There are slews of people who want to get ahead by climbing over the backs of others. This is an evil impulse.

We can see clear cut occupations of evil. Few salesmen wish to take only their fair share, whereas most are predatory vultures. Lawyers are liars who prostitute their intellect in order to win their cases despite the merits and the Truth. In fact, many lawyers reserve a special glee when they win particularly hard cases, that is, when they have to convict innocent people or absolve guilty ones.

But beyond the legal occupations, there are the actual criminal careers. There are thousands of predatory criminals -- theft, fraud, and whatnot. I wonder that such a big deal is made of drug trafficing. If it were legalized it would simply be another commerse. So I would not readily demonize a trade that is condemned only because the statutes make it illegal. But the violence and territorial wars in the Drug Trade attract all the wrong kinds of people.


But, yes, there are many people who do have kind hearts, who shrink from exploiting others and don't think twice before selflessly serving their communities. I wish we had a statistical breakdown. A simple questionaire could reveal plenty. Evil people really don't mind telling you so. Ask them if they would sell a used car for twice what they paid for it and they will say "Sure" with a big old grin. They'd be proud of it and brag to their evil friends about it.
 
what768 said:
I don't think there are many people who "want" to be evil. I don't think that animals or flowers or mushrooms are "evil". A lion which kills has not done anything wrong, but if a human does it, he has wronged, because he has a greater moral knowledge, and he knows that it is wrong to kill...
He doesn't know it's wrong. He's been told it's wrong. Huge difference.
If he's sharp he can see all the indications in the natural world telling him he's been lied to. A lion that kills another lion isn't evil, ofcourse not its a ridiculous concept, he's not not-evil because "he doesn't know better", thats actually our excuse for not killing eachother. We don't seem to understand that we have to.
The lion isn't evil because he's doing what his nature demands he does. What he is doing is actually right. If he were to not act on his urges he would be wrong. Those urges exist for a reason. And they are solid evidence for how things are "supposed" to behave. Biblical morals are hearsay, we have no serious reason to believe they are correct. We can be sure a lion's moral code is correct, we can be sure the instinctual desires within our brains are correct. Thats all the evidence we have to go on. If there's a "correct" way to act it's like a homosapien. Like an animal. We can't be wrong in behaving that way, because we didn't create ourselves. We didn't make human beings the way they are.
Consciously trying to be "right" is actively taking responsibility and all signs point to our idea of "right" being wrong so don't be suprised if you end up in some kind of hell for being "right".
 
Leo Volont said:
This is the problem with secular government taking charge away from the priests. See how easy it is for a person to suppose that predation and war are truly big hearted gifts of selflessness.
I'm guessing that you've conveniently forgotten about all the warring Popes of the past. :rolleyes:
 
But, yes, there are many people who do have kind hearts, who shrink from exploiting others and don't think twice before selflessly serving their communities.

The Sciforums Religion forum:
"Come for the religion, stay for the communist propaganda."

icon_rolleyes.gif
 
All humans knows what is right to do. No child is born evil, but they operate by instinct and serve the divine law of love. Evil comes from outside of man, because satan is the lord of the earth, and the good comes from within, because man is the temple of God.

Every animal which becomes a man is blessed. But every man who lowers to the state of an animal or even lower, to the state of matter, is "cursed".

Spirit is life, matter is resistance. The law of the spirit is radiation, giving, selflessness. The law of matter is drawing inward, cooling off, paralysis.

There is only one single creature that is able consciously to combine the two laws: man. He is the connecting link between the world of the spirit and that of matter. He is able to live at one and the same time by the laws of both worlds. His thoughts, words and deeds can be an act of giving, radiating selflessness and universal love. On the other hand, his body belongs to the material world and lives by the laws of matter. At its right place and in its right time, every law is divine, but the opposite is "satanic".

Pick up a stone for example. The power that makes it a stone and holds it together as matter is the very self-same law of resistance tending to chill, harden and hold everything together. As long as this law manifests itself in matter and as matter, the law is operating in its place and consequently in a divine manner. But inert matter becomes living matter when the divine spirit, the self, clothes itself in matter and becomes flesh. The self, life, penetrates the inert matter, and out of the law of matter there arises a living spirit: the reflected image which has only been able to become spirit by virtue of the fact that God, as the self of the living creatures, has breathed his own life into matter, is Satan. Thus you can see that satan is the law of matter come alive through the divine spirit. Satan lies dead in matter, as its law, until with its own life the divine spirit makes him come alive.

Whenever man's consciousness identifies itself with the law of matter so that his thinking, words and deeds, instead of serving the divine law, serve the law of matter, man is bringing satan to life, man is becoming satanic himself. Without man satan cannot exist; for without the self of man, satan is only an unconscious force, a necessary natural law of matter.

When after the death of the body of such a person the self separates itself, satan remains behind in the corpse as the law of matter. He became satan through the vitalizing power of the self in the consciousness. But the consciousness of a person who has identified himself with the law of matter and thus become satanic himself dies with satan and becomes unconscious after death. Satan draws him, his slave, into inert matter, into the darkness, into loss of consciousness, into himself.

No one who does right comes to hell. If we "are" right, doesn't always mean that we "do" right, when telling it to others for example. It is not right to say to a dying boy that he is going to die and suffer, even if it would be the truth, such an act is without love and thus it is not wisdom or truth. Everyone is right, but only for themselves, then later a universal right rises from our personal truth.
 
Leo Volont said:
Would you Call Yourself Good or Evil?

I’ve noticed a trend. There is Hatred and Abuse for those who uphold Moral Codes. Those who Punish evil are being accused of being the Aggressors, when actually they are the Defenders. It seems that People here are identifying with the punished transgressors and the attackers of Morality.

The idea that Evil victimizes Society and that punishing Evil may deter its repetition is largely ignored, while people seem more afraid of receiving the punishments then confident that they will benefit from a secured level of Righteousness and Morality which a strict observance of the Rules would entail.

I think people must decide which side they are on. If you are Good then be good and stand shoulder to shoulder with other Good People. Raise your children to be Good. Insist that people coming into your Society also be Good. Understand that in your Goodness, the Rules are there to protect you and yours from those who would introduce Evil. The Rules are Good Things.

Instead we have everyone behaving as though they are Evil. They assume the Rules will hurt them more than they will help. Their battle cry is “Fight the Rules!” They want to be free to do anything they want. These people are consciously and deliberately Evil.


Ok basically good and evil are black and white concepts,and my argument is the world never has and never will work in black OR white,there are many levels,inbetween black and white you have shades of grey and thats where the world operates along with every human.

You cant remove one or the other without collapsing the system.

Like a lightbulb,a DC lightbulb operates using a negative and positive wire,call that your black and white,remove either the pos or neg and the light goes out.

Thats how i see the world,the best you can do is get yourself in a lighter tone of grey.But there is many levels everywhere.

I dont personally believe in good and evil,for reasons well outlined above,they are too extreme an opposite and they are based on what defines them.

If you ask me "was hitler evil?"
id say yes,but id counter it to say he did have humane good features,which frightens people,it scares people to mention hitler liked to relax drinking tea,and loved animals,and painted really well and helped create the autobahn and voltswagen,to say this person had features of being human is astounding,but such a person couldnt get in thier position without some charisma.
I mean you couldnt have grabbed any old psycho serial killer off the street and get em to be a dictator and start a world war.

The other fact is he never killed anyone with his own hands,the only person he ever killed was himself.

So your definition of evil is always warped,a serial killer is essentially more evil than hitler but is too stupid and has too many social problems to get in a position where he/she would kill many people,thats also not thier adgenda,hitlers was for power and megalomania,a kinda "destroy to recreate" and build a super race devoid of any jewish blood,i mean he was a total fruit+nut but theres more than one kind of evil.

A serial killer's view essentially involves a compulsion to kill people,an addiction cos they enjoy it maybe its the sounds and screaming people might make,maybe they get sexually aroused when snapping a childs neck,or plunging a large blade through someones lung and listening to the gurgling sound,its all of these things and more,so ive always held the belief that psychologically a serial killer is far more warped than hitler.
 
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