Are You Good or Evil?

[Leo Volont]

Would you Call Yourself Good or Evil?

I’ve noticed a trend. There is Hatred and Abuse for those who uphold Moral Codes. Those who Punish evil are being accused of being the Aggressors, when actually they are the Defenders. It seems that People here are identifying with the punished transgressors and the attackers of Morality.

The idea that Evil victimizes Society and that punishing Evil may deter its repetition is largely ignored, while people seem more afraid of receiving the punishments then confident that they will benefit from a secured level of Righteousness and Morality which a strict observance of the Rules would entail.

I think people must decide which side they are on. If you are Good then be good and stand shoulder to shoulder with other Good People. Raise your children to be Good. Insist that people coming into your Society also be Good. Understand that in your Goodness, the Rules are there to protect you and yours from those who would introduce Evil. The Rules are Good Things.

Instead we have everyone behaving as though they are Evil. They assume the Rules will hurt them more than they will help. Their battle cry is “Fight the Rules!” They want to be free to do anything they want. These people are consciously and deliberately Evil.

 

[path]

Would you Call Yourself Good or Evil?

I’ve noticed a trend. There is Hatred and Abuse for those who uphold Moral Codes. Those who Punish evil are being accused of being the Aggressors, when actually they are the Defenders. It seems that People here are identifying with the punished transgressors and the attackers of Morality.

Leo the violent misogynistic methodology you espouse for dealing with transgressors of what YOU deem to be morally acceptable have been shown to be counterproductive and unworkable. Oppression doesn't equal justice and sheltering human beings from evil does nothing to build up an immunity to evil in humanity. A case in point which I made was the example of the fact that DESPITE draconian laws for dealing with drug abuse Iran now finds itself as a world leader in # of drug addicts (utter failure) More later, I need to go spend the saturday with my family (wallowing in our evilness).

 

[Leo Volont]

A case in point which I made was the example of the fact that DESPITE draconian laws for dealing with drug abuse Iran now finds itself as a world leader in # of drug addicts (utter failure)

The Law is Morality's last resort. The Victorian Age was able to assert a Morality because an Entire Class participated. Those who were perceived to Transgress were immediately punished with complete social ostrasization. No Crime and do the Time. Nothing that easy. Transgressors became Non-Persons. Nobody would speak to them. Nobody would ever again do any legitimate business with them. It was punishment by living death.

Your example of Iranian Law hardly touches the matter. First, I can't believe the Laws are really Draconian. Fear is a very trustworthy emotion. If a law is being enforced in a Draconian Manner, you would expect that people might be just a tad afraid of being punished. This would certainly slow them down a bit, you would think. What I suspect is that everything in Iran is governed in regards to Tribes and Klans. The Police don't deal with everybody. It is understood that some Tribes and some Klans are 'connected'... that they take care of their own affairs. I also suspect that in certain Klans and Tribes the use of drugs predate any Islamic Republic Laws in that regard, and so it is thought that where the Laws might be appropriate for the disconnected riffraff in the Cities, that the well ordered Tribes and Klans in the Rural Districts can well take care of themselves as they have for hundreds of years. THEY are not the problem.

 

[Bells]

Leo should be thankful that at least one individual was not punished for carrying a child that was seen to be illegitimate as she was not married when she became pregnant. Leo, where would you be if the Virgin Mary was punished for being pregnant before marriage? Hmm? Had you lived during that time Leo, you'd be baying for her blood for daring to be pregnant and unwed. After all, she'd be evil wouldn't she? She wouldn't be 'good' since she broke the rules. Ask yourself Leo, with the disgusting views and ethical standards that you hold, would you be welcoming to a woman who said that she was unwed and carrying the child of God? Or would you be saying 'to the gallows for you evil wench'?

 

[-=T=-]

I can not see how the OP has anything to do with religion.

 

[what768]

Maybe all evil belongs to "Satan", and what is good belongs to "God". But both of them are a part of us, so I guess we're sometimes good and sometimes evil... But we really want to be good always. God is inside of us, and Satan is outside of us... so...

 

[robtex]

Leo you lost me and probably some of the others. Could you post the rules so we can avoid evil?

thank you.

 

[mustafhakofi]

if my name was leo, then evil, but as it's not, good.

 

[Lori_7]

People are not good or evil. Good and evil exist, but we do not create it nor possess it, nor determine it. And following rules does in no way shape or form make you "good", except possibly, good at following rules. God's law is perfect, and there is righteousness and holiness in it's perfection...and therefore is good. Sin is the transgression of that law...fallen from that perfect state...and is evil. So god is good, his law is good, and his creation is good, in it's perfect state. Unfortunately we are fallen from that state, and imperfect. In this imperfect state, we know of good, and we know of evil...meaning we experience it in our lives...we live it. But to try to say that we are able to distinguish his law and understand his truth to the point that would make us "good" by following rules is ridiculous. We are all fallen short of his grace...none of us are good, no not one. Please don't buy into this "organized religion" mentality...it is at best futile, and at worst terribly destructive.

Sin is like a birth defect ok? So no matter what rules you follow, or how well you follow them, you will not rid yourself of it, or the effects of it. For example, if you are born mentally handicapped, you may learn to follow a bunch of rules that make it easier for you to live, but you will still always remain mentally handicapped. That's how sin is. Sin is genetically encoded into our flesh and there is no "rule" that can do a damn thing about that. You're a sinner...face it...always will be. Hey Nicodemus, if you could rid your sin by following a bunch of rules, then what would you need Jesus for? Wouldn't that mean he suffered and died in vain? Think about it. "F" rules...it's not about rules...it's about JESUS.

 

[Leo Volont]

Leo you lost me and probably some of the others. Could you post the rules so we can avoid evil?

thank you.

Good and Evil can be understood in the social context of a person's moral attitude. If a person's actions are centered upon the Welfare of the Community at Large -- the Collective, then the intentions are Good. If, on the otherhand, a person is disposed to be selfish and predatory, then his intentions will be Evil.

Most people are too stupid to discern the difference. So it has been that the various Civilizations have encoded guidelines which designate the lines separating Good from Evil.

Our own Civilization is in a state of collapse. All the Rules have been tossed out. So I recommend that individuals attempt to discern Good from Evil using the Criteria I suggested -- that Goodness is other-directed and that Evil is inherently selfish.

Sexual Morality may seem overly complicated, and my criteria largely irrelevent. However, keep in mind that many Societies and Civilizations of the past have affirmed that a generally well-behaved and chaste Society more often then not was healthier and happier then Societies rife with promiscuity and illegitmacy. But, from the Spiritual View Point, we need to remember what Christ said about Sex -- that there would be no sex in Heaven -- that we would be like the Angels. So, regarding Sexual Moralities, we need to understand that such concerns are entirely temporal and physical. Beyond presenting an intense distraction to the Spiritual Life, making men feel and act more as though they are merely animal, sex is not ultimately important.

 

[-=T=-]

if you could rid your sin by following a bunch of rules, then what would you need Jesus for?

Good question.

"Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other 'sins' are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful -- just stupid.)"
~Lazarus Long

Trillions of human beings have lived and died without ever needing Jesus for anything.

Good and Evil can be understood in the social context of a person's moral attitude. If a person's actions are centered upon the Welfare of the Community at Large -- the Collective, then the intentions are Good. If, on the otherhand, a person is disposed to be selfish and predatory, then his intentions will be Evil.

In my opinion, this is totally ludicrous, altruistic claptrap. So a person living in isolation is inherently evil. Uhhh... okay.

Community has nothing to do with morality.

 

[Bells]

Good and Evil can be understood in the social context of a person's moral attitude. If a person's actions are centered upon the Welfare of the Community at Large -- the Collective, then the intentions are Good. If, on the otherhand, a person is disposed to be selfish and predatory, then his intentions will be Evil.

One would think that a person's goodness or evilness would depend on their own actions and on how they treat others. If a person's actions were centered upon the welfare of the community at large as you've defined as good, then one could view murder or actions of war, for example, as being good if it benefits the whole community. If for example the welfare of the community would be benefited by obtaining more land, then one could feel justified in attacking one's neighbours to get that land. Vigilante groups would feel justified in killing individuals who they deem to be acting against the collective. The collective itself would be acting in their own best interest, therefore they would be selfish, which you have defined as being evil.

Most people are too stupid to discern the difference. So it has been that the various Civilizations have encoded guidelines which designate the lines separating Good from Evil.

Our own Civilization is in a state of collapse. All the Rules have been tossed out. So I recommend that individuals attempt to discern Good from Evil using the Criteria I suggested -- that Goodness is other-directed and that Evil is inherently selfish.

Yes Leo, various civilizations have guidelines that it deems appropriate to define what is good and evil. They are called laws. For example, in the US, it is a crime to kill another, but the State feels justified in killing people for committing that crime... for the welfare of the collective. See the hypocrisy?

Sexual Morality may seem overly complicated, and my criteria largely irrelevent. However, keep in mind that many Societies and Civilizations of the past have affirmed that a generally well-behaved and chaste Society more often then not was healthier and happier then Societies rife with promiscuity and illegitmacy.

Heh! NO society has ever been well behaved or chaste.

But, from the Spiritual View Point, we need to remember what Christ said about Sex -- that there would be no sex in Heaven -- that we would be like the Angels. So, regarding Sexual Moralities, we need to understand that such concerns are entirely temporal and physical. Beyond presenting an intense distraction to the Spiritual Life, making men feel and act more as though they are merely animal, sex is not ultimately important.

Ah, but if one is acting for the benefit of the community or the collective, then sex is essential to ensure the survival of said community, thus presenting a distraction to the spiritual life.

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

I'm proud to be evil. "Evil" in the biblical sense describes human beings. Someone who is trying to not be evil is defying nature and the universe, and for what? A book? A bunch of superstitious crap?
I'm evil like a lion is evil, like a preying mantiss, flower or mushroom is evil. I'm as evil as the billions of years old universe.
You strive to be as good as a character in a book. There is certainly more reasoning behind being evil than there is behind being good. Its easy to believe a book is wrong, much more difficult to believe billions of years of natural processes are "wrong". By being "good" you are inherently claiming those billions of years of natural processes are wrong. And for that reason you are a raving lunatic.

 

[Q25]

Would you Call Yourself Good or Evil?

totaly good,I dont steal,kill,rape,lie or cheat, and Im atheist too,go figure?

There is Hatred and Abuse for those who uphold Moral Codes.

the police oficers?
hope they use their nightsticks more often.

Instead we have everyone behaving as though they are Evil. .

everyone?
holy shit,where the hell do you live?Sing Sing?

 

[robtex]

Good and Evil can be understood in the social context of a person's moral attitude. If a person's actions are centered upon the Welfare of the Community at Large -- the Collective, then the intentions are Good. If, on the otherhand, a person is disposed to be selfish and predatory, then his intentions will be Evil.

Most people are too stupid to discern the difference. So it has been that the various Civilizations have encoded guidelines which designate the lines separating Good from Evil.

Our own Civilization is in a state of collapse. All the Rules have been tossed out. So I recommend that individuals attempt to discern Good from Evil using the Criteria I suggested -- that Goodness is other-directed and that Evil is inherently selfish.

paragraph one: centered upon community at large is def of utiltarianism and self centered is hedonism. If hedonism is your def of evil than I can see why you think there is a moral collapse. Everyone has moments where they make themselves #1. I think you just condemmed pretty much all of earth with your defintion.

Paragraph two. Yeah stupid people are evil too.....all people with diminished capcity should be punished for their inferior intellect. Espcially those made infrieior by strokes or accidents involving brain damage.

paragraph 3: Umm..there you go with the rules again. ....ya gonna share them or are they a secret. You don't have to list all of them just some and how they are making society collapse. I don't think hedonism is gonna make society collaspe.

Paragraph 4: I don't believe I remember reading Jesus talking about sex in the NT. I went to biblegateway.com and typed in

1) jesus, sex
2) christ, sex
3) sex, heaven

and got nothing. Where did he make the statement about no sex in heaven in the Bible?

take care.....sorry to be arugumenative but this whole thread is so ambigious...but punative.....kinda scary...

 

[what768]

I don't think there are many people who "want" to be evil. I don't think that animals or flowers or mushrooms are "evil". A lion which kills has not done anything wrong, but if a human does it, he has wronged, because he has a greater moral knowledge, and he knows that it is wrong to kill...

Also things like sex will be wrong when man advances to the state of a prophet or higher, because sexual feelings belong to the animal state. But it is not wrong now, because man is not much more than an animal. Procreation is not wrong, but now man has made a selfish lust of it...

The divine is always opposite from the material. From the material viewpoint the meaning of life is to find a "partner", but from the spiritual point of view the meaning is to "find" oneself. When man advances, he will dissapear from the earth because of this. Truly I tell you, it has happened once.

It is very evident that no "power" is right/wrong or pure good/evil, but it depends on how we use the power.

---

Edit: Also, Jesus has never said that "there is no sex in heaven".

 

[Neildo]

Am I good or evil? Since morals change over time and differs depending on where one resides, give me the year, the region, and other such variables to compare my own "morals" to.

- N

 

[Q25]

God's law is perfect,

you mean like this
www.evilbible.com/
and
http://thewaronfaith.com/bible_quotes.htm

Sin is genetically encoded into our flesh and there is no "rule" that can do a damn thing about that. You're a sinner...face it...always will be.

thanks for the sermon,but we (the thinking people)dont buy that crap.

just b/c you feel like a sinner,wretch and have low self esteem,
like most religious folks brainwashed by the church,dont expect everyone to buy into it.
www.objectivethought.com/atheism/carlin.html

"F" rules...it's not about rules...it's about JESUS.

no its not
if God created all people,wouldnt WE ALL be His children?
why would this Jebus fella be so special?

 

[James R]

I’ve noticed a trend. There is Hatred and Abuse for those who uphold Moral Codes. Those who Punish evil are being accused of being the Aggressors, when actually they are the Defenders. It seems that People here are identifying with the punished transgressors and the attackers of Morality.

I too have noticed a trend.

I have noticed a trend for bigotted hypocrites to want to set themselves up as some kind of supreme moral arbiters. If they were allowed to be in control, then all would be oppressed except for the sanctimonious perpetrators themselves.

Leo wants to be judge, jury and executioner all rolled into one. He will be fine, because nobody will be allowed to set standards except him. His pronouncements on morality will be absolute and unquestionable, and heaven forbid that anyone could hold any other view of what is Good and Right or Evil and Horrid. Such heretics should be shot on sight.

Welcome to Leo's paradise. We doubt you will enjoy your stay.

 

[Bells]

I too have noticed a trend.

I have noticed a trend for bigotted hypocrites to want to set themselves up as some kind of supreme moral arbiters. If they were allowed to be in control, then all would be oppressed except for the sanctimonious perpetrators themselves.

Like all tyrants in history, wouldn't you say?

Leo wants to be judge, jury and executioner all rolled into one. He will be fine, because nobody will be allowed to set standards except him. His pronouncements on morality will be absolute and unquestionable, and heaven forbid that anyone could hold any other view of what is Good and Right or Evil and Horrid. Such heretics should be shot on sight.

Ah, we shouldn't shatter the old man's illusions, or to be more precise, delusions. But it is fun to do so . Leo contradicts himself all the time. And once someone points out those contradictions he either ignores it or moves onto another thread in the hope that no one will notice. He wishes he were living in the Victorian era because the books from that period are so filled with moral and good societies. As I said, delusioned.