I said normal people, not the sick fucks 
Are we more deserving if we are dying tomorrow?
- Thread starter Randwolf
- Start date
Would you think that living in a Muslim country would be the same as living in a western country? The customs are very different and therefore a person that happened to come from America and was dying in a Muslim country might not get what they want because of the differences. A 95 year old wants to get laid but has a ruptured uterus therefore she couldn't get what wanted . Many things can prevent you from getting what you want as I have stated.
Are you saying that people in Muslim countries do not offer as much respect to the dying as Western cultures? Why is this? Or, conversely, why do Westerners believe that just because an individual is dying that they deserve to have their wishes granted?
As to the other, physical restrictions always restrain fulfillment of our wishes, even if you are 95 with a ruptured uterus...
(Oh, BTW, how did you ever conceive of that scenario?)
I'm saying that if your from one culture and you want to have something to eat that another country doesn't think is right, you won't get waht you want.
At my age you hear of this type of thing happening to people you know.
Fair enough. But you didn't answer my question. In your opinion, do Muslim cultures not incorporate the idea of fulfilling "last wishes"? Why?
No, I guess I don't know. I'm not exactly a spring chicken myself, but I have never heard of a 95 year old woman with a ruptured uterus desiring one more go round as her dying desire...
I'm sure there's plenty of things you haven't heard and never will. Sometimes you just are in the right place at the right time and bingo, you are enlightened.
I was only guessing at that. I really have no idea what they believe to do. I was only using a foriegn country to make a point about you cannpt always get what your dying wishes might be because of geographical locations.
NO way. Treating someone any different would be the last thing I would do. When my grandfather was dying I treated him exactly the same. I think I would be upset if people started treating me different, if I were dying.
Or, in this case the wrong place...
You act is if I am advocating granting dying wishes out of hand, regardless of geographical location. Rather, I am interested in people's opinions as to whether it is moral and ethical to ask society (whatever society that may be) to change its rules to indulge "dying wishes". It seems that no one really wants to address the issue, or perhaps my OP wasn't clear or provocative enough to elicit a response.
In any event, I thank you for your contribution...
I agree with this sentiment.
What would you do if your grandfather wanted to be treated differently, or indulged in some special way? Would you cater to his wishes, or continue to try to interact in the same way?
Pandaemoni
Valued Senior Member
I have difficulty believing that. For example, should I go see IMAX Watchman next Friday or spend that evening with my dying grandfather? Truth is, if I treated my dying grandfather the same as always, I'd probably go see the movie.
zbrewha863
Registered Member
So are we talking about dying wishes in general, or this girl's specific type of dying wish?
Societies (including the US) have made exceptions for certain laws based on certain protected statuses, such as religion or age. An example of religion would be the impermissibility of courts to adjudicate ecclesiastical matters. An example of age would be the fact that minors are often charged, tried, and punished differently from adults.
I would like to raise the issue of religion in light of this controversey ... many people see marriage as a religious cerimony that binds two people for eternity. To deprive someone of this cerimony because of their age, when they are facing impending death, is to effectively deprive that person of a significant part of their religious practice for an eternity.
Just a thought.
Societies (including the US) have made exceptions for certain laws based on certain protected statuses, such as religion or age. An example of religion would be the impermissibility of courts to adjudicate ecclesiastical matters. An example of age would be the fact that minors are often charged, tried, and punished differently from adults.
I would like to raise the issue of religion in light of this controversey ... many people see marriage as a religious cerimony that binds two people for eternity. To deprive someone of this cerimony because of their age, when they are facing impending death, is to effectively deprive that person of a significant part of their religious practice for an eternity.
Just a thought.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
How is it not fair ?
Are we simply justifying disdainful irreverence?
Hell, my grandmother, discharged from the hospital in order to die in the close-knit peace of her own home, had one specific wish: She wanted to go to Safeway, to talk to the butcher one last time, to say hello and goodbye to her favorite cashier, to give a hug to the kind stockboy who was always willing to rummage around in the back for something they should have had but didn't, and, of all things, to cruise the produce aisle and buy some apples and cantaloupe. I understand. Certain things have symbolic importance. A family friend, an old man dying of ... well, I forget what, as I was fairly young and inattentive at the time, only wanted to go to church one last time, and then meet everyone at the restaurant for brunch. It wasn't the sermon he was after; he could have as much of the pastor's time as he needed or wanted. But he wanted to see those people, to shake hands and ask how the grandkids were at coffee afterward, and to pick at some eggs and hash browns while the ladies prattled on about sewing and family, and the men rambled on about work. These were central rituals in each of their lives, and after long absences in the hospital, they just wanted one last go-round with the things that brought them comfort.
Admittedly, a nine year-old doesn't have much like that to work with. I can understand a kid who wants to ride around in a police car, or take a couple swings at his favorite fastball. But, yes, the marriage thing seems a little odd to me.
Nonetheless, I'm not sure playing wedding for a couple of dying kids is really bending any rules. And it's certainly not comparable to the last meal of a condemned man, which itself is merely a pretense to dignity for the sake of the homicidal: Yes, we're going to kill you, but we're honorable chaps, so here's that pepperoni pizza, french fries, and chocolate milk you wanted.
I don't think this is much of a change of topic, but rather an attempt to get after the central question: What does "reverence" mean to people? What is it worth? Why would it be objectionable?
Hell, my grandmother, discharged from the hospital in order to die in the close-knit peace of her own home, had one specific wish: She wanted to go to Safeway, to talk to the butcher one last time, to say hello and goodbye to her favorite cashier, to give a hug to the kind stockboy who was always willing to rummage around in the back for something they should have had but didn't, and, of all things, to cruise the produce aisle and buy some apples and cantaloupe. I understand. Certain things have symbolic importance. A family friend, an old man dying of ... well, I forget what, as I was fairly young and inattentive at the time, only wanted to go to church one last time, and then meet everyone at the restaurant for brunch. It wasn't the sermon he was after; he could have as much of the pastor's time as he needed or wanted. But he wanted to see those people, to shake hands and ask how the grandkids were at coffee afterward, and to pick at some eggs and hash browns while the ladies prattled on about sewing and family, and the men rambled on about work. These were central rituals in each of their lives, and after long absences in the hospital, they just wanted one last go-round with the things that brought them comfort.
Admittedly, a nine year-old doesn't have much like that to work with. I can understand a kid who wants to ride around in a police car, or take a couple swings at his favorite fastball. But, yes, the marriage thing seems a little odd to me.
Nonetheless, I'm not sure playing wedding for a couple of dying kids is really bending any rules. And it's certainly not comparable to the last meal of a condemned man, which itself is merely a pretense to dignity for the sake of the homicidal: Yes, we're going to kill you, but we're honorable chaps, so here's that pepperoni pizza, french fries, and chocolate milk you wanted.
I don't think this is much of a change of topic, but rather an attempt to get after the central question: What does "reverence" mean to people? What is it worth? Why would it be objectionable?
I didn't say "fair." I said "a fair shot."
"A fair shot" in this case means granny got a full chance at life to do what she could.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Ok. I thought you implied that dying at nine years old isn't fair.
Totally understandable, from the viewpoint of the soon to be deceased. We all seek "comfort" and familiarity, but the question is to society as a whole. Why do we feel that a dying request has more merit than the wishes of a healthy person? Are they more deserving? Did they somehow "earn" this extra attention by virtue of their imminent death? Or is it simply an attempt on the part of the living to assuage guilt, real or imagined? Do not confuse my questions for "a lack of empathy", I too feel the attraction for satiating a terminal patient's last desires. I am simply curious as to why we as a species feel this way. Where is the evolutionary advantage here?
Why would you expect anything different? As you pointed out earlier, the child in question was raised in an environment that, for right or wrong, reveres marriage. Why do you find it odd that she would want to emulate behavior that the adults in her life (and society in general) have portrayed as desirable?
Come now Tiassa, no one stated that it was bending any laws. Bending any rules? Of course it is. Do you contend that marriage of children nine years of age is commonplace? Or commonly accepted by society in the US in this day and age? This event is clearly "bending" the norm...
Yes, it is comparable, at least in some fashion. I think an integral part of the whole arrangement was an effort to a "pretense". "Oh, let's let the children partake in a ritual we would never let them act in (under other circumstances) so that the poor darlings can get a taste of that which they will never experience." Please...
You have restated my question much more eloquently than I. However, it is still the question. In fact it goes even deeper. Why does this concept exist at all? What evolutionary advantage does it convey?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reverence
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin reverentia, from reverent-, reverens respectful, reverent
Date: 14th century
1: honor or respect felt or shown : deference ; especially : profound adoring awed respect
2: a gesture of respect (as a bow)
3: the state of being revered
4: one held in reverence —used as a title for a clergyman
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reverence
More to the general. It is amazing the lengths society will go to cater to a dying person's wishes. Google "grant dying wishes"...
Why, though?
Good point. Is it "more fair" to die at 95? Who decides these things?
zbrewha863
Registered Member
The public policy behind it is that there are certain rights, such as the practice of religion, that are guaranteed by the Constitution because, for whatever reasons, the founding fathers thought that these rights were so important that the government could not infringe upon them.
The granting last wishes, in a general sense, I think does have to do with some sort of quasi-religious or spiritual belief in honoring the dead, coupled with most people's inability to actually come to terms with their own eventual death.