Are we living in God’s kingdom, or Satan‘s?

[Greatest I am]

Are we living in God’s kingdom, or Satan‘s?

What did Jesus mean when He said “The Kingdom of God is at hand?

Mat 4;17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Jesus seems to be saying that God’s kingdom was right there at that point in time and that would also mean that it is still here and now.

If God began by being master and owner of all that is, and he spans or owns the whole of creation, and scripture is right that says he does not change, then logic says that we are now in is God’s kingdom and we never left it.

Ps 139 8
If I ascend into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Romans 12:21
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

These also seem to confirm that God is everywhere, even in hell, where he is working at saving lost souls and that would make the following quote also true.

2 Peter 3;9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Obviously, nothing and no one can thwart God’s will. He always gets what he wills even if at times we cannot understand how he does it. All souls are therefore saved and none perish.

Now I know some will say that there cannot be anything evil in God’s kingdom. Consider that Satan was in heaven before God made him the prince of this world. Therefore, there can definitely be evil in God’s kingdom. In fact, the myths of Eden and Job both show God consorting with Satan. In Eden, he allows Satan access to A & E and in Job, to Job.

If hell and earth are no longer in God’s kingdom, then that would mean that God lost some of his original holdings/kingdom, and I cannot see any good reason for him to change from full ownership of what was, to partial ownership of what is.

Are we living in God’s kingdom, or Satan‘s?

Regards
DL

 

[Enmos]

Are we living in God’s kingdom, or Satan‘s?

Neither.

 

[NMSquirrel]

it is those types of questions that lead me to believe that Evil is what we(humanity) decide it is..

we call satan Evil, Satan can't do anything without Gods permission, or so it would appear by the story of Job,

12 The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”

God need satan..we need satan..
God gave us the ability to choose, God presents one arguement and satan the other..it is still our choice to decide which course of action to pursue..

Evil tends to be selfish,
Good tends to others..

 

[Greatest I am]

it is those types of questions that lead me to believe that Evil is what we(humanity) decide it is..

we call satan Evil, Satan can't do anything without Gods permission, or so it would appear by the story of Job,


God need satan..we need satan..
God gave us the ability to choose, God presents one arguement and satan the other..it is still our choice to decide which course of action to pursue..

Evil tends to be selfish,
Good tends to others..

Yet you said that evil is under God's control.
That would make God selfish as well. Right.
Scripture tends to agree. ---My way or burn forever.
Now that is selfish.

Regards
DL

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

Satan"s That be Me . For it is written Satan will be let out for a little while . Then the Christ will come an rein . That be my son . Lucien is his his name . Man of light that is what it means . Part of his Archetype casting . He will get to see the day Humans prolong life at way greater life spans then we know and your all lucky bastards to have him to straighten out the mess we have made of things. His peers know how great he is . They do ask about his dad SATAN ( Cause I am going to get you all , Don't look under your bed ) They know I must be different just by instinct because he is different. Kids like that because people don't treat them like people . Yeah Kids like me . They think I am goofy as shit , but that is part of the appeal . Children are People ! Children is people ! . You know your kids are way smarter than you think . They see the shit you hide from them . They learn from it . When you hide it it makes them want some of what you are hiding . You are the example .

I got off track . I am Satan ! I am hear for a little while ! I am going to bust your ass. It won't hurt and you won't feel a thing . Be glad it is me busting your ass , because I touch my Feminine side daily . I know what mercy is . Lucky also for everyone . Wood for Haiti

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

Yet you said that evil is under God's control.
That would make God selfish as well. Right.
Scripture tends to agree. ---My way or burn forever.
Now that is selfish.

Regards
DL

No you don't quite understand yet . It is not that you will burn for ever for going against God . It is you will burn forever by the choices you make . Has nothing to do with god punishing you . Look there are laws of nature . You violate the laws of nature and undesired consequences can happen . You go to hell sometimes and once you hit the basement it can be very hard to get out. So it is not My Way Or burn ! It is if you do it this way you won't get burned . But Hey who am I . What do I know . Do it how you want . I did my part and warned you what would happen if you violate that law of nature that is set in stone. That is why it is good we have scientist to figure out the laws of nature . They are prophets of the modern era. The new Hero Gladiators of gigantic proportions. You know how hard it is to truly think threw something . The concentration it takes . Shit the real thinkers might not eat for days. It is not a job . F--ck they think about it while they sleep and will wake up with a solution from working in there sleep . Nothing like a person that goes to work comes home and forgets about the events of the day drifts off into la la land and dreams about there favorite goat .

O.K. Im Lost What was the subject again

 

[AlphaNumeric]

and scripture is right that says he does not change,

So how come he goes from being a wrathful vengeful genocidal egomaniac who can't go 5 seconds without interfering with humans god in the old testament to 'love thy neighbour' son sacrificing (for a weekend at least) chummy god to a completely absent now god?

Why did Jesus fulfil the sacrificial laws so Christians don't have to kill a goat or sheep any more? Why did god change his mind about that?

then logic...

.... has no place in organised religion.

These also seem to confirm that God is everywhere, even in hell, where he is working at saving lost souls and that would make the following quote also true.

'Working at saving lost souls'? Why does god have to work to do anything? It's his rules which send people to hell. It's his creation of all things which has resulted in his children violated his rules, which he then enforces and sends them to a place he made. He could just snap his metaphorical fingers and wipe the evil from people. He made the rules, he could just say "I forgive your sins!" and remove hell from existence (or wherever you think it resides).

Why does he have to work to confirm to rules of his own devising for things he made and, to use your words, owns?

Obviously, nothing and no one can thwart God’s will.

Except Adam and Eve when they did something god told them not to do, right? And if no one can thwart god's will why does he send people to hell, which originally was supposed to be for Lucifer and his pals. Firstly the very fact Lucifer rebelled means its possible to thwart god's will in some manner. Secondly the fact humans weren't originally supposed to go there means that god couldn't/didn't foresee the disobedience of Man.

Clearly it is possible to thwart god's will on some level and that's not even getting into the issue of free will.

He always gets what he wills even if at times we cannot understand how he does it. All souls are therefore saved and none perish.

So why have hell? Why did he build Eden only to cast out Adam and Eve for not doing as he said?

If no one can violate god's will and all happens according to his plan, as he created everything, why does he get angry with people? By your logic god wanted Sodom and Gomorrah to be filled with sinful people. He wanted people to try to build the Tower of Babel. He wanted every bad person to do every bad act they did. If he didn't want that and nothing happens which isn't according to god's will then said acts would never have occurred.

And saying 'saved' in this context is ridiculous. What's he saving souls from? Himself! It's like me threatening to punch someone and then expecting praise when I don't. Or rather, in the case of saving people already in hell, expecting praise for calling a doctor after I break someone's leg.

By your logic everything happens according to his plan, his will cannot be violated. Yet he then punishes his creations for doing what he forces them to do, since no one can violate his will! If nothing happens if not in line with his will no one is responsible for their acts. But this contradicts common theistic claims like god is all loving and kind. He can't be if nothing can happen except in line with his will yet he sends people to hell, which he created. To then try to get praise for 'rescuing' someone from torment he put them in is ...... well it's not even 'laughable', it's mind boggling people think the deity portrayed in Christianity is anything but a self contradicting malicious jerk.

Now I know some will say that there cannot be anything evil in God’s kingdom.

Well you just said nothing happens which is against god's will so if there's evil there god allows it.

Consider that Satan was in heaven before God made him the prince of this world.

Yes, it's odd a supposedly perfect all knowing being couldn't foresee one of his own creations rebelling against him, particularly given nothing supposedly happens which violated his will. If I were a sceptical cynic I'd conclude there's a fundamental logical flaw in your doctrine.

Oh wait, I am.

Therefore, there can definitely be evil in God’s kingdom. In fact, the myths of Eden and Job

I'm glad you accept they are myths and are not true. At least that is one step in the right direction.

In Eden, he allows Satan access to A & E and in Job, to Job.

So he allows a creature he must know to be 'evil incarnate' (since he knows all things, right?) access to Adam and Eve, two utterly innocent and trusting people (since they have no concept of lying or deceit) and then casts them out of paradise when they end up trusting someone who shouldn't be trusted? Not only that but he then punishes all their descendants for their 'sin'? And this guy is just and loving? I put sin in inverted commas because you cannot call it sin. Sin, by any reasonable definition, involves having some understanding of the implications of your actions. If you have no concept of right and wrong, which Adam and Eve didn't, and you have no concept of lying or falsehood, which they didn't, then you'd accept everything at face value, without question. So god allows Lucifer access to two people who don't understand right and wrong (since that is the very thing the fruit of the tree gives) and then gets annoyed when they are led astray?! God's either an idiot or an ass.

If hell and earth are no longer in God’s kingdom, then that would mean that God lost some of his original holdings/kingdom, and I cannot see any good reason for him to change from full ownership of what was, to partial ownership of what is.

I can't see any good reason to think any of this is remotely true. God, Adam, Eve, Lucifer, the tree, Eden, any of it. Thus far I've just argued against your theological view point by taking it on face value and pointing out issues. Thus even if I grant you the truth of the Bible, which I don't really, this character of god of which you speak isn't a nice person and even if I believed in him I wouldn't worship him.

Are we living in God’s kingdom, or Satan‘s?

Until evidence is presented to believe anything of which you or the Bible speaks the default answer is "Neither, since there is no reason to think either exist".

 

[Adstar]

There are kingdoms of Spirit and then there are physical kingdoms.

The Physical Kingdom of this world is ruled by satan. And those who are with him in his spiritual kingdom are favoured

There is however another kingdom in this world but not of this world. It is the spiritual kingdom of the Messiah Jesus.

In the future this Spiritual kingdom (that is being constructed and is in waiting) will become the Physical Kingdom of the Messiah Jesus. This will happen upon the day of the return of the Messiah Jesus.

So satan rules for a time. But like the story of Job satan is restrained in what God allows Him to do.

That’s why i can share my thoughts on God and the knowledge of God is available to the world.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Rav]

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Thus far you have praised the ancient of days 3,438 times. What about the modern of days, or the current of days, or the future of days? Surely they deserve some Adstar love as well?

 

[Adstar]

Thus far you have praised the ancient of days 3,438 times. What about the modern of days, or the current of days, or the future of days? Surely they deserve some Adstar love as well?

Thats a different reply.

I am scratching my head and thinking, is this guy just trying to be genuinely funny or is trying some new creative angle of mockery?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[AlphaNumeric]

There are kingdoms of Spirit and then there are physical kingdoms.

Prove it.

The Physical Kingdom of this world is ruled by satan.

Prove it.

satan is restrained in what God allows Him to do.

So your god is an ass.

That’s why i can share my thoughts on God and the knowledge of God is available to the world.

And yet this 'knowledge' doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Why is that?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Even if you prove that the god of the bible exists that wouldn't make it worthy of praise.

 

[Greatest I am]

".

I wrote the O P with the assumption that people would recognize that what is being stated is being stated for the sake of discussion and not because it is a belief held by the poster... Must I REALLY preface these statements about the bible with "not that any of this crap is actually true but for the sake of argument" ?

I make many of the same arguments you do when I am having discussions with theists.

I see that you have taken one on. I will observe how you do and expect likewise.
Perhaps i will learn from you or visa versa.

We have no argument.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

There are kingdoms of Spirit and then there are physical kingdoms.

The Physical Kingdom of this world is ruled by satan. And those who are with him in his spiritual kingdom are favoured

Yes. As God's favorite and chosen to do God's will, he would favor them.

There is however another kingdom in this world but not of this world. It is the spiritual kingdom of the Messiah Jesus.

Jesus was a good Rabbi. He misqued on the messiah angle though.

Have you seen the latest-----

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/expedition-week/4290/Overview#tab-Videos/07451_00

As to the notion of a blood sacrifice, please think of the moral aspects before trying to profit from the murder of an innocent man. That is quite immoral of you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYaQpRZJl18&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-91mSkxaXs

In the future this Spiritual kingdom (that is being constructed and is in waiting) will become the Physical Kingdom of the Messiah Jesus. This will happen upon the day of the return of the Messiah Jesus.

Satan has it at present from what you say.

Do you not find it strange that God's justice includes deferring a sentence and allowing the perpetrator to continue doing evil.

Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.
On earth as in heaven.

Should our human judges do the same as God?
If not, why not. If it is good enough for God then it must be good enough for man.
It does not work does it?

So satan rules for a time. But like the story of Job satan is restrained in what God allows Him to do.

In that specific case he is. Show where scripture shows he is otherwise restrained please.

That’s why i can share my thoughts on God and the knowledge of God is available to the world.

What knowledge can we possibly rely on when speaking of an unfathomable, and unknowable God who works in mysterious ways?

None at all IMO.

Regards
DL

 

[Mind Over Matter]

God need satan..we need satan..
God gave us the ability to choose, God presents one arguement and satan the other..it is still our choice to decide which course of action to pursue..

Evil tends to be selfish,
Good tends to others..

God doesn't need Satan. Lucifer had free will and chose himself over his Creator.
We don't need Satan. Evil exists in our fallen world because of Satan's temptings to join him in his choice of self over God. We need God, not Satan.

Perhaps you can expound on your intention of the word "need", because you may mean something that I did not address.

God doesn't "present an argument". God presents Himself. He provided revelation of Himself to us. It could be said that Satan certainly presents arguments against God, however.

The rest of your comments are essentially correct. :thumbsup:

 

[Captain Kremmen]

Thats a different reply.

I am scratching my head and thinking, is this guy just trying to be genuinely funny or is trying some new creative angle of mockery?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

If you have to think about it, it's not funny.
I like your slogan.
Don't change it.

 

[Adstar]

Prove it.

Prove it.

Disprove it...

So your god is an ass.

Believe as you will. You own your belief.

And yet this 'knowledge' doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Why is that?

What scrutiny?

Even if you prove that the god of the bible exists that wouldn't make it worthy of praise.

LOL I am not here to prove the existence of God. I give the Message of God and it is that message that proves God to the ones whom God is saving.

It's never been about proving or disproving God. It is about accepting or rejecting the Message of God.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

PS: Never worry Captain Kremmen i will not be changing my call to Praise the Ancient of Days

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Are we living in God’s kingdom, or Satan‘s?
What did Jesus mean when He said “The Kingdom of God is at hand?

There is no "satan's kingdom" man, only "god's kindgom". If god is eternal, all-powerful, then satan is part of god's kingdom.

What I think about this is: we are living in god's kingdom, but the perception of that is distorted by "satan". And for my understanding, satan is the ancient word for "ego". So we must choose between ego-clinging (hell), or the path of love (kingdom of god).

And I think that what Jesus meant was exactly that, we can live in god's kingdom if we choose to, it is in our hands to choose (not collectively though).

All animals live in god's kingdom, they do "god's will", and they evolve and contribute to evolution unwillingly. They have no free will because they are bound to their nature.
A human have reason, and with knowledge comes the ego (the fruit of the tree of knowledge). So we can choose to do “god’s will” or to miss that target and live in our unconsciously-created perception of reality.

In other words, we can choose to evolve as a species doing “god’s will”(the “natural way”) or we can choose de-evolution (passing on genes which are a hindrance to evolution and therefore to life in general). Like we are doing right now.

 

[Greatest I am]

There is no "satan's kingdom" man, only "god's kindgom". If god is eternal, all-powerful, then satan is part of god's kingdom.

What I think about this is: we are living in god's kingdom, but the perception of that is distorted by "satan". And for my understanding, satan is the ancient word for "ego". So we must choose between ego-clinging (hell), or the path of love (kingdom of god).

And I think that what Jesus meant was exactly that, we can live in god's kingdom if we choose to, it is in our hands to choose (not collectively though).

All animals live in god's kingdom, they do "god's will", and they evolve and contribute to evolution unwillingly. They have no free will because they are bound to their nature.
A human have reason, and with knowledge comes the ego (the fruit of the tree of knowledge). So we can choose to do “god’s will” or to miss that target and live in our unconsciously-created perception of reality.

In other words, we can choose to evolve as a species doing “god’s will”(the “natural way”) or we can choose de-evolution (passing on genes which are a hindrance to evolution and therefore to life in general). Like we are doing right now.

Nicely put.

Part of Gnostic thinkig says that the dominion of God is in the here and now.

Jesus said:

"If those who lead you say to you: See, the kingdom is in the heavens! then the birds who live in the heavens will surely precede you; if they say to you: It is in the deeps, then the fish of the sea will reach it first.

But truly I tell you, the kingdom is within you, and it is outside of you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known truly, and you will know that you are sons of the living God.

But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty!"

Regards
DL

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

There is no "satan's kingdom" man, only "god's kindgom". If god is eternal, all-powerful, then satan is part of god's kingdom.

What I think about this is: we are living in god's kingdom, but the perception of that is distorted by "satan". And for my understanding, satan is the ancient word for "ego". So we must choose between ego-clinging (hell), or the path of love (kingdom of god).

And I think that what Jesus meant was exactly that, we can live in god's kingdom if we choose to, it is in our hands to choose (not collectively though).

All animals live in god's kingdom, they do "god's will", and they evolve and contribute to evolution unwillingly. They have no free will because they are bound to their nature.
A human have reason, and with knowledge comes the ego (the fruit of the tree of knowledge). So we can choose to do “god’s will” or to miss that target and live in our unconsciously-created perception of reality.

In other words, we can choose to evolve as a species doing “god’s will”(the “natural way”) or we can choose de-evolution (passing on genes which are a hindrance to evolution and therefore to life in general). Like we are doing right now.

your an animal of the earth dude. What makes you think you are different . You are bound to your own nature called " The Human Animal "

 

[SciWriter]

The 'useless' ego was/is responsible for our survival.