Are atheists lost sons ?

lightgigantic said:
aka - ignorance

Ignorance – The third is retrospective in one’s outlook, in that in one’s heart one nurses unending dismay, anger and frustration about one’s past experience. Thus one sees hope neither in the present nor future. One chooses to cancel out further involvement in this world by negating one’s personal self. There are demanding, highly disciplined philosophical systems dedicated to losing one's self; but in today's Western world, many people try it the easy way, through alcohol, drugs and suicide.
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How do you know all this ? Obviously you haven't tried it out..
 
What else ?

Sorry, I missed the boat. Anyway, there is not a shred of objective evidence to support the view that we are other than bodies, but that will not stop those who think otherwise from dreaming up or quoting bizarre explanations.
 
Enmos said:
Yes, but that's besides the point.
I'm asking you how you know it isn't.
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by practice
and practice has its foundation in theory

at the moment you have the theory that the body is the final last issue of the self (its not a claim you can verify btw) ..... thus the issue of practice for you ends right there.
 
lightgigantic said:
by practice
and practice has its foundation in theory

at the moment you have the theory that the body is the final last issue of the self (its not a claim you can verify btw) ..... thus the issue of practice for you ends right there.
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We're back at 'practice'.. ? :confused:
I thought you were going to explain..

I can verify it. There is no evidence whatsoever that the self survives corporal death.
But you made the extraordinary claim, so you come up for evidence to the contrary.
 
Enmos said:
We're back at 'practice'.. ? :confused:
I thought you were going to explain..
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and I thought you weren't apathetic
:p

I can verify it. There is no evidence whatsoever that the self survives corporal death.
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Carl Sagan (amongst others) disagrees


But you made the extraordinary claim, so you come up for evidence to the contrary.
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and lo and behold, evidence rests upon qualification ... which once again gets back to issues of practice (and the impossibility of it for one who is working with an alternative theory ...)
 
lightgigantic said:
and I thought you weren't apathetic
:p


Carl Sagan (amongst others) disagrees



and lo and behold, evidence rests upon qualification ... which once again gets back to issues of practice (and the impossibility of it for one who is working with an alternative theory ...)
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I take that to mean that if one does not agree with your initial premise, there is nothing more to talk about. In a nutshell, you have no evidenceto offer

I suggested earlier that we are nothing more than bodies; there is no elan vital. Consciousness is mind-dependent; ask anyone who has been unconscious or checkwhat neuroscientists have to say about work with brain-damaged patients. So, I am offering you some evidence and can offer a lot more if necessary, with the added benefit that. unlike what you proclaim, there is no requirement to believe anything in advance. Anyone can evaluate such evidence.

What have you got to offer by way of an explanation of what grounds your beliefs rest on ?
 
Apparently nothing.. he was going to explain how he got to know what he knows.. nothing came out.
 
lightgigantic said:
and I thought you weren't apathetic
:p

Carl Sagan (amongst others) disagrees

and lo and behold, evidence rests upon qualification ... which once again gets back to issues of practice (and the impossibility of it for one who is working with an alternative theory ...)
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LG, if all you have to say is what you have said already you are not going to convince anyone.
Even someone that desperately whats to see what you mean would get stuck almost immediately.
Unless they choose to blindly believe you on your word of course..
 
Enmos said:
LG, if all you have to say is what you have said already you are not going to convince anyone.
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The same goes for you - unless your insistence on evidence is met by an equal degree of willingness to apply yourself, what's the point?
Even someone that desperately whats to see what you mean would get stuck almost immediately.
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only if like you, they are reluctant to take up issues of practice

Unless they choose to blindly believe you on your word of course..
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even to successfully carry out the requirements for a junior chemistry set it is required that one take the manual instructions on good faith
:shrug:
 
lightgigantic said:
The same goes for you - unless your insistence on evidence is met by an equal degree of willingness to apply yourself, what's the point?

only if like you, they are reluctant to take up issues of practice


even to successfully carry out the requirements for a junior chemistry set it is required that one take the manual instructions on good faith
:shrug:
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Ok, so let's have a manual and we can work out our own explanation with a bit of practice ( pun intended ) ,that is.
 
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