Archetypal images of Christianity..

Just to get a general idea, if you're not religous no need to bother.

  • Heaven & Hell

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • Hell, no Heaven

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Heaven, no Hell

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No Hell, no Heaven

    Votes: 4 80.0%
  • Total voters
    5
U

ULTRA

Realistically Surreal
Registered Senior Member
> If you believe in heaven are you not duty bound to believe in hell, after all, it's all part of the same teaching...The Christ and the Antichrist, the Alpha and the Omega?
Is it not the case that according to the teachings of the bible, the vast majority of us are doomed to eternal torment, and so is the greater reality in this context?
Would we not profit more from placating the devil if it's his company we'll be spending eternity with?
Is this really a necessary dichotemy at all? Just spiritual blackmail?
> If you are religous, how do you rationalise this?
 
The revelation mainly (John). It's full of images of destruction and evil, though there are scattered references to the devil in its various incarnations and its environs. "The pit" is an apt term used on occasion. I'll fish out specifics tomorrow when i've had some sleep if required.
 
ULTRA said:
Is it not the case that according to the teachings of the bible, the vast majority of us are doomed to eternal torment, and so is the greater reality in this context?
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It is not stated in the Bible that the vast majority are doomed to eternal torment.

So you should not be stating it like it is.


Would we not profit more from placating the devil if it's his company we'll be spending eternity with?
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What would be the point? The devil/satan is going to be suffering for eternity in torment. I doubt very much he will be at all concerned about the ones who are with him in that eternal predicament.


Is this really a necessary dichotemy at all? Just spiritual blackmail?
> If you are religous, how do you rationalise this?
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Well i think we should get the basics right. firstly what you term hell is not what i believe the eternal Lake of fire is. For the book of Revelation (thats a part of the Bible) says:

Revelation 20
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

So it says Hell is going to be cast into the Lake Of Fire. So Hell cannot be the Lake of Fire. You cannot cast Hell into Hell.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
ULTRA said:
The revelation mainly (John). It's full of images of destruction and evil, though there are scattered references to the devil in its various incarnations and its environs. "The pit" is an apt term used on occasion. I'll fish out specifics tomorrow when i've had some sleep if required.
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And what did that have to do with Jesus? Didn't they just accept Revelations because he happened to be named John?
 
spidergoat said:
What part of the bible makes them believe in hell?
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The bottomless pit Spidey . Been there done that . Crawling out of the lake now . Lake Missoula . Zoo town . My soul A . Now for all you that have not been there yet . Hold on to your shorts for it is a bumpy ride. You all are going to have to pass threw the fire at some point or die and never get to the other side. I like to think of it as Hell Gate Canyon . We will be waiting for you
 
ULTRA said:
> If you believe in heaven are you not duty bound to believe in hell, after all, it's all part of the same teaching...The Christ and the Antichrist, the Alpha and the Omega?
Is it not the case that according to the teachings of the bible, the vast majority of us are doomed to eternal torment, and so is the greater reality in this context?
Would we not profit more from placating the devil if it's his company we'll be spending eternity with?
Is this really a necessary dichotemy at all? Just spiritual blackmail?
> If you are religous, how do you rationalise this?
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Dude you are quite the thinking Man . Placating the devil !! That is brilliant!! I think your starting to understand the dream . It is all about the Scape Goat Buddy . You know who the scape goats in life are don't you ? We are a particular group really . Consider this . The stone of the Hopi they wish to match with another stone . Consider the Pharaohs stone . They are pretty much the same stone . On the stone is a Big guy and then there is a bunch of little guys . To Me it represents many people forming as one . That is the big guy in both pictorials . So the group I am talking about , the scape goat group of people form as one . These are the ones that pass threw hell . They gain understanding as the walk the earth . The rest will pass threw the fire when this group becomes one . They have no choice ! We are many and they are but a few.
 
Heaven and hell are inside each and every one of us. I don't think they are places you go after you die.
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
Heaven and hell are inside each and every one of us. I don't think they are places you go after you die.
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Ding Ding Ding I think we have a winner !!! Come on across the rainbow bridge my friend and be some where over the rainbow were skies are blue . Odin has been waiting for you . Me two dogs will lick you in the face . Jack has bad breath , but Baxter has puppy breath
 
Dywyddyr said:
You mean we're all Tardises?
Much bigger on the inside than on the outside?
How do they fit?
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Time Monks too . Ever seen the mini series " Roots " ? we are rooted in time . I call it me tail . It determines a lot of Me disposition . De Magna Domo that be me
 
A metaphorical hell is not a religious concept. The big problem with Christian religion is that it says hell is real.
 
spidergoat said:
A metaphorical hell is not a religious concept. The big problem with Christian religion is that it says hell is real.
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It is real Spidey . It is attributes . The holy Me's. Agony would be one of them , Fear is another . See those first writers of the word were smart bastards . We don't give them credit enough if you ask Me . People think roots have nothing to do with them . It is like a flower bro . The Tree of life is like a maple tree . Look at your genealogy my Man and tell Me it is not so. I just don't know ? Fantasy is in your mind . Reality is what goes on around you . There is a connection . That connection is you and what your attributes cause you to do . Which becomes part of reality . My attributes cause Me to walk around with a flame thrower blasting peoples asses off . That"s just Me though . I am an White American . It is breed into us .
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
If you can't understand something, make fun of it; such an obvious reaction.
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WE are not making fun . You are trapped in the self and we are trying our best to bring you forward into the light . I understand were you are . Once you stop fighting with your self you might begin to see were we are . Then you will not think we are making fun of you anymore. You will know we are trying to help you with the fantasy of self . I know you worship the nothingness . There is life beyond that . Do you really want to be caught in the nothingness the rest of your life or wouldn't you rather be a changer . A doer of great wonderful things . You don't do that be being nothing . There is a time for small faces and then there are times for big faces .
 
Me-Ki-Gal said:
WE are not making fun . You are trapped in the self and we are trying our best to bring you forward into the light . I understand were you are . Once you stop fighting with your self you might begin to see were we are . Then you will not think we are making fun of you anymore. You will know we are trying to help you with the fantasy of self . I know you worship the nothingness . There is life beyond that . Do you really want to be caught in the nothingness the rest of your life or wouldn't you rather be a changer . A doer of great wonderful things . You don't do that be being nothing . There is a time for small faces and then there are times for big faces .
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Hehe alright; but I agree with spidergoat. A methaphorical hell or heaven does not mean something "spiritual" over-the-rainbow or whatever stuff. I'm talking about stuff we have all experienced in daily life.
As in: hatred = hell, love = heaven, etc. etc.

And Dywyddyr is right, I did't explain myself. But is such a huge topic that what the hell; my intention is to give another direction to the conversation since this option is not even on the selection list. For me heaven and hell are just methaphors, and not necesarily after-death places.
 
> Ok, I've analyzed my bible and cross-referenced it. I found about 50 direct references (I stopped counting after 30) of Hell (king james version) and have picked out the following references as of being of particular relavence:

Hell was originally created for the "devil and his angels"; Mt 25:41. also Lk 8:31 & 2 Pe 2:4 & Rev 20:1-3, 10

"Hell is a consequence of rejecting God": Mt 13:40-42 & Dt 32:22 & Mk 9:42-48 & Jn 3:36 & Ro 2:8 & 1 Th 5:9 & Heb 10:26-29 & 2 Pe 3:7 & Rev 20:15, 21:8

"Jesus Christ possesses authority over Hell": Mt 16:18 & Rev 1:18 & Jn 5:27 & Ac 10:42; 17:31

"The final state of the wicked is one of eternal punishment": Mt 25:41-46

"Biblical expressions for final punishment": Lk 16:23 & Mt 8:29 & Rev 14:11; 20:10

"The second death": Rev 20:14; 20:6; 21:8

"the finality of Hell": Lk 16:26 & Heb 6:4-6; 10;26-27; Rev 16:11

Some practises and attitudes that "lead directly to Hell": Heb 10:26-27; 6:4-6 & Mt 5:22 & Jas 3:6

Quotes taken from "The Hodder Dictionary of Bible Themes" Hodder & Stoughton British library Cat 0340 65645 x

Also used was "The bible" mulitmedia ver 4.4
 
Actually, I was surprised just how many actual refrences to Hell there were. Basically, any unrepentant sinner (however you define 'unrepentant' and 'sin'), anyone who doesn't accept Jesus as their saviour, anyone that is overly rich or even people that even think bad stuff, and people of other religeons are not gonna make it to heaven. (what about the ex-communicated?) In other words, nearly everybody. So much for being the 'good' book, it condemns most of mankind to an enternity of horror and torture. :bugeye:
 
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