Arabian Nights

[Michael]

BBC

Islamic lawyers want to legally see that the classic book Arabian Nights is banned because it is "obscene". The group, Lawyers Without Shackles, filed a complaint with Egypt's prosecutor general after the collection of folk tales was republished. They called for the new edition to be pulped and the stories to be banned. "I was shocked at the offensive phrases it contains," Ayman Abdul Hakim of Lawyers Without Shackles was quoted by the TV station Al Arabiya.

Who cares if artistic representation of the Human Form was banned? So what if the world leaders in sculpture lost all knowledge of how to sculpt human beings? Human beings bodies are obscene. Everyone knows that.

Who cares if the Classics are burned and banned?
So what?


Does artistic expression help society? Does it put food on the table? Is artistic expression really all that important? Worshiping Allah is the only thing that is important and the only book Muslims need is the Perfect Qur'an. Banning Arabian Nights will have no effect at all on Good Muslims. All they need to do is read the Qur'an. Memorize the Qur'an. Just keep praying to Allah 5 times a day and stop wasting time with Pornography like Arabian Nights or obscene Human Sculpture.


Everyone knows it's the Qur'an that's made the Islamic nations the Cultural Powerhouses they are today. Envy of the world really.





Ever wonder what happens to societies when you ban art form? Just take a look at the Cultural Revolution. I imagine in a millennium or two, it'll be known as the Great Communist Golden Age that lasted for a big fat whopping 800 years or so. Much greater than those pathetic Greek Golden Years. Or the European Renaissance - try doing that without paper. It's all Chinese for fracks sake.

 

[S.A.M.]

Thats one reason why lawyers should never be without shackles. What makes them "Islamic" lawyers anyway? Alf lail wa lail is too classic for the likes of them.

Everyone knows it's the Qur'an that's made the Islamic nations the Cultural Powerhouses they are today

As opposed to the time when the 1001 nights were written, one supposes. Before the advent of western "civilisation" in the middle east. The Arabs were never prudes, and women in Morrocco were establishing schools at a time when women in the west had no clue there was such a thing as a schooling.

 

[Michael]

Who cares about the West? I thought you if anyone would be on side here? So what if an art form is banned? Be it Classical Sculpture or Classical Literature? That IS what you have maintained in the past isn't it?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Before the advent of western "civilisation" in the middle east. The Arabs were never prudes, and women in Morrocco were establishing schools at a time when women in the west had no clue there was such a thing as a schooling.

So what happened? If they were culturally polluted by western 'civilization' then why are they such prudes now? Why are some Afghan religious men throwing acid on the faces of young girls who try and make their way to school? I mean these are not things we need to deal with in the West and its the same 'civilization' they were polluted with no? Why the devolvement?

I have yet to read Arabian Nights. I guess I will get to it at some point.

By the way did you ever read The Patience Stone? Its by Atiq Rahimi and I suggested it to you back in the 'erotic literature' thread. I finally read it and Its everything and anything but erotic. The reviewer who said as much was mad. It deals with sexuality but not in the erotic sense, its more like social and cultural criticism. You should check it out. Its interesting, very sparsely written. But I do have some reservations on how much of it rings true in terms of character development. It reads like a western novel, actually it comes across as being derivative of Beckett or Brecht (like Mother Courage). Rahimi probably spent too much time in France

@Michael

As for the OP. Yes of course artistic expression helps society but, if you look back, some of the work from the West's most formidable authors were not accepted in their day. What freak decided to ban James Joyce 'Ulysses'? Wasn't Henry Miller considered obscene and worthy of being banned by the same culture that would later embrace him? Why were people so put out by 'Lady Chatterly's Lover'? Surely the contributions of a great English writer like D. H Lawrence would have been valued instead of keeping his work caught up in legal battles. Alas no. Defoe's 'Moll Flanders' was banned up until 1966!! Can you imagine? I don't think this story of the Arabian Nights is any different than what has and continues to occur in our own culture or society.

There isn't any better way to make sure a work is sought after than to declare it banned

 

[Shadow1]

.

well, the book wasn't about islamic nights, it was arabian nights, also it's a story... why should it be banned

 

[S.A.M.]

There isn't any better way to make sure a work is sought after than to declare it banned

Agreed, although the original Arabian nights is quite prurient and reads like low key erotica, not the kind of thing anyone would be reading aloud at bedtime to their children.

Its quite possible these lawyers actually got around to reading an original version rather than the Disney spoofs that pass for middle eastern culture.

So what happened? If they were culturally polluted by western 'civilization' then why are they such prudes now?

Have you read Orientalism by Edward Said? Or Before Homosexuality in the Arab Islamic world by Khaled El-Rouayheb?

The Arabs were luckier than other colonised peoples.

 

[The Marquis]

Agreed, although the original Arabian nights is quite prurient and reads like low key erotica, not the kind of thing anyone would be reading aloud at bedtime to their children.

Well then read what you wish and communicate to your children what you feel needs communicating.
It's not terribly difficult to do - but deciding what you will or will not read based on whether or not you'll communicate it to your children is just ridiculous.

The Arabs were luckier than other colonised peoples.

Now, S.A.M.
Why do you frequently see any need to make an intelligent post, and then spoil it by adding that last line?
You remind me of an idiot savant, overall. Someone with an Achilles heel.

Do yourself a favour, and rid yourself of it.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Agreed, although the original Arabian nights is quite prurient and reads like low key erotica, not the kind of thing anyone would be reading aloud at bedtime to their children.

Its quite possible these lawyers actually got around to reading an original version rather than the Disney spoofs that pass for middle eastern culture.



Have you read Orientalism by Edward Said? Or Before Homosexuality in the Arab Islamic world by Khaled El-Rouayheb?

The Arabs were luckier than other colonised peoples.

Well that was what I first thought when reading Lady Chatterly's Lover, that it was more romantic than strongly erotic and certainly not ban worthy. I couldn't understand what the fuss could have been about yet still it ran counter to British values at that time of publication. Meanwhile De Sade's work can be purchased in a book store and no one gives a toss, you can walk out with 100 Days in Sodom but they will ban the local skin magazine on the corner and force people to carry it in brown paper bags like contraband.

What values do you believe they are trying to protect?

Actually I have heard of Orientalism by Said. I was probably supposed to read it during an internship in India I'm going to have to do some poking around as I may still have it but I'm sure I haven't read it. I will look for the other by Khaled El-Rouayheb.

I don't know what the fuss is about. Even the west had a period 'before homosexuality' if you know what I mean The Greeks would have been quite surprised to learn that pederasty would later be considered an obscene act. I think that these changes came with the Christian movement

 

[nirakar]

So what happened? If they were culturally polluted by western 'civilization' then why are they such prudes now? Why are some Afghan religious men throwing acid on the faces of young girls who try and make their way to school?

My guess is that the need to be proud despite the military, financial, and technical superiority of the blatantly arrogant West has led people become obsessed with and to revel in their moral purity and their "family values" because this is an area in which the West may look inferior. The West is decadent, hedonistic, selfish sluts. In the USA many of the descendants of the losers of the civil war claim that the decadence of the culture of the descendants of the civil war winners makes the descendants of civil war losers superior and they get all fascistic and proud about their religiosity and "family values".

Also the feminism, and culture of greed and hedonism and legalistic financial scamming comes from the modern cities and then slowly arrives at the doorsteps of the rest of the world. In the modern cities they know that whether good or bad they made this modern culture and it is theres. In the out of the way corners of this Earth modernism feels like some foreign perversion being imposed on them against their will. Anything imposed on anybody will provoke hostility.

Neither culture is the correct answer to how can people live together with grace and maturity. All cultures are more reactions than they are responses.

Tribal Muslims may eventually recognize that they are practicing repression not purity. The shocking decadent west looks like it is suffering from impurity because of lack of repression. I can understand if the tribal people don't want to become like Westerners.

The west can pretend that it's selfishness is really freedom. The tribal people can pretend that their patriarchal selfishness is moral purity. They are both liars. They are both obnoxious, hypocritical self-deluded proud liars.

They are prudes because they are proud of being prudes and they have little else to be proud of.

 

[S.A.M.]

Well then read what you wish and communicate to your children what you feel needs communicating.
It's not terribly difficult to do - but deciding what you will or will not read based on whether or not you'll communicate it to your children is just ridiculous.

I was brought up by a grandmother who did read sex scenes out loud when reading books to me, so my own standards are a bit more flexible than those of others. Most book bannings are arbitrary anyway.

Now, S.A.M.
Why do you frequently see any need to make an intelligent post, and then spoil it by adding that last line?
You remind me of an idiot savant, overall. Someone with an Achilles heel.

Do yourself a favour, and rid yourself of it.

As usual nirakar has been more articulate. The only thing I would add to that is most Arabs are quite unabashed about their sexuality, male or female and have less personal hangups about their sexuality. The prudeness is cultural and politically enforced in some cases and while more visible in the expression of Arab lifestyles, it is not as endemic as seems apparent.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Well tell us Sam did you read the naughty bits in Arabian Nights?

They should just make it mandatory school reading. That way everyone will be bored with it regardless of its quality.

Its like now I can't even look at the cover of War & Peace without feeling immediately resentful.

 

[S.A.M.]

Well tell us Sam did you read the naughty bits in Arabian Nights?

They should just make it mandatory school reading. That way everyone will be bored with it regardless of its quality.

Its like now I can't even look at the cover of War & Peace without feeling immediately resentful.

I know what you mean. I read The Thornbirds in 4 hours, but nowadays I'm hard put to get through anything that has more than 300 pages. I am lucky to have friends with the same eclectic taste in reading as I and I picked up the unabridged translation of the Arabian nights back when I was in high school. It was in three volumes, detailed and colourful. I read all three volumes in a couple of weeks. The naughty bits included.

The PC crowd would probably ban it for racism and sexism alone

 

[Repo Man]

My guess is that the need to be proud despite the military, financial, and technical superiority of the blatantly arrogant West has led people become obsessed with and to revel in their moral purity and their "family values" because this is an area in which the West may look inferior. The West is decadent, hedonistic, selfish sluts. In the USA many of the descendants of the losers of the civil war claim that the decadence of the culture of the descendants of the civil war winners makes the descendants of civil war losers superior and they get all fascistic and proud about their religiosity and "family values".

Dogmatic Soviet communists also did this.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

The PC crowd would probably ban it for racism and sexism alone

They would ban Shakespeare's Titus Andronicus for the same reasons. What is interesting about these banned books is that they are so benign when one gets around to reading them. You find yourself skipping back and forth after its been read trying to suss out exactly what was so offensive. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what was so riske about Catcher in the Rye. And as I pointed out in another post I have never heard of De Sade's work ever hitting a ban list but if any of his novels fit ban worthy criteria 100 Days in Sodom would definitely be one of them. Why hasn't anyone suggest that they ban The Anarchists Cookbook? Or Homemade C-4? :shrug:

Its always the beautiful works of literature that are targeted by this nonsense. If someone wrote a novel equivalent to the Jerry Springer Show no one would bat an eye. (of course I am speaking strictly of the west)

Interestingly enough the author of The Anarchists Ckbook would like to see it removed from the shelves since he has converted to christianity but since he doesn't own the copyright its out of his hands.

 

[S.A.M.]

It would be interesting to study why repression always targets sexuality.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

It would be interesting to study why repression always targets sexuality.

Yes it would. Have any ideas? I'm flummoxed on this issue. I have never really understood the fear behind banning reading material.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Sam have there been any books you know of that have been banned in India? What were they and what were the reasons behind the bans?

 

[James R]

What makes them "Islamic" lawyers anyway?

They are Muslim, I guess. What makes a person an Islamic anything?

 

[S.A.M.]

Sam have there been any books you know of that have been banned in India? What were they and what were the reasons behind the bans?

Sure many books, plays and movies have been banned in India. Allegedly its to preserve sensibilities but mostly its a political movement. Fortunately, Indians don't take bans seriously so the same week that Salman Rushdies Satanic Verses gets banned in the stores, it appears on the roadside stalls. I suppose the pirated copies available for pennies don't do much for the author or publisher, but they guarantee our freedom from censorship.

* 1989, Salman Rushdie's The Satanic Verses was banned in India, as it was in many countries, for its purported attacks on Islam.[14] India was the second country in the world (after Singapore) to ban the book.
* 1990, Understanding Islam through Hadis by Ram Swarup was banned[citation needed]. In 1990 the Hindi translation of the book was banned, and in March 1991 the English original became banned as well.
* A book on Shivaji by Queens University professor Jayant Lele was also banned.[citation needed] as this book raised a question about Shivaji's father.
* Shivaji: Hindu King in Islamic India by American scholar James Laine.
* Laine's translation of the Sivabharata, entitled The Epic of Shivaji, was also banned. The ban followed an attack by Sambhaji Brigade activists on the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute in Pune. The subsequent governments have not revoked the ban.
* In Punjab the Bhavsagar Granth was banned by the state government,[15] following clashes between mainstream Sikhs and the apostate Sikh sect that produced it. It was said[who?] that the granth had copied a number of portions from the Guru Granth Sahib. In one of the photographs it showed Baba Bhaniara, wearing a shining coat and headdress in a style similar to that made familiar through the popular posters of Guru Gobind Singh, the tenth guru of the Sikhs. In another Baba Bhaniara is shown riding a horse in the manner of Guru Gobind Singh[citation needed].
* The Polyester Prince - (ISBN 1864484683) a biography of the Indian businessman Dhirubhai Ambani was banned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_India

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Sure many books, plays and movies have been banned in India. Allegedly its to preserve sensibilities but mostly its a political movement. Fortunately, Indians don't take bans seriously so the same week that Salman Rushdies Satanic Verses gets banned in the stores, it appears on the roadside stalls. I suppose the pirated copies available for pennies don't do much for the author or publisher, but they guarantee our freedom from censorship.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_India

I bet they banned the Satanic Verses because they thought it would bring violence. Am I right? Personally I never finished the book. It bored me. It wasn't the material as much as the way it was written. I wouldn't be hunting down any other novels by Rushdie any time soon.

The link says that pornography is banned. Does that ever slip into erotic fiction? I mean how would they consider 'Lolita' for example?

Oh have you ever read 'Reading Lolita in Tehran' by Azar Nafisi? Its non fiction and WONDERFUL. I highly recommend it. Its a teacher of literature who held private classes where she covered material not deemed worthy by the State censors. They read Pride and Prejudice, Lolita, The Great Gatsby, One Thousand and One Nights and a few others. Its about the reactions from her male and female students and covers everything from the critical arguments they had over the material, life in Tehran etc. I think you would appreciate it. It really revolves around how literature touches our lives, not just for students in Tehran but everywhere. I found something quite universal about what she had done though I guess doing something like that in Tehran had its own political or religious complications.