Anyone can read the Bible. - Really?

This is like saying that God does not reveal Himself

I don't believe in God. But in a way, that's neither here nor there.

If there is a God, and if God did reveal himself in some special fashion to somebody, then the fact still remains that God revealed himself to somebody. A human somebody. Then that person, or successors in the tradition, gathered together some of that material and restated it in textual form as a book. Presumably that book was written in an already existing language, made use of existing vocabulary and concepts, and was written with some readership and purpose in mind.

Even if we accept for the sake of argument that the scripture is a vision of God, it's a vision of God through a human lens.
 
I don't believe in God. But in a way, that's neither here nor there.

If there is a God, and if God did reveal himself in some special fashion to somebody, then the fact still remains that God revealed himself to somebody. A human somebody. Then that person, or successors in the tradition, gathered together some of that material and restated it in textual form as a book. Presumably that book was written in an already existing language, made use of existing vocabulary and concepts, and was written with some readership and purpose in mind.

Even if we accept for the sake of argument that the scripture is a vision of God, it's a vision of God through a human lens.

This is a rather relativistic view. I don't think many theistic religions would approve of it.
And their approval does seem relevant in this case, since they are the ones in whose domain theism can live, but not outside of them.
 
For example, can we not suppose there might have been some political motivation with including Romans 13:1-7 in scripture?

yea,that was one of the verses that convinced me that the bible was not to be taken literally..like, what happens when authority tells you to do something that God doesn't want you to do??(we can assume for this argument, any thing God says in the bible to do.)

Revelation 22:18,19 was the most obvious to clue me in..

"18Here is my warning for everyone who hears the prophecies in this book:

If you add anything to them, God will make you suffer all the terrible troubles written in this book. 19If you take anything away from these prophecies, God will not let you have part in the life-giving tree and in the holy city described in this book. "

ok..they talking about the whole bible? but the whole bible wasn't put together at the time revelation was written..so that means either it was meant only for revelation or they added it when they put the bible together..then they are guilty of adding to the bible..:bugeye:

this is where discretion comes in..History and context helps to tease out what is what..
 
yea,that was one of the verses that convinced me that the bible was not to be taken literally..like, what happens when authority tells you to do something that God doesn't want you to do??(we can assume for this argument, any thing God says in the bible to do.)

Revelation 22:18,19 was the most obvious to clue me in..

"18Here is my warning for everyone who hears the prophecies in this book:

If you add anything to them, God will make you suffer all the terrible troubles written in this book. 19If you take anything away from these prophecies, God will not let you have part in the life-giving tree and in the holy city described in this book. "

ok..they talking about the whole bible? but the whole bible wasn't put together at the time revelation was written..so that means either it was meant only for revelation or they added it when they put the bible together..then they are guilty of adding to the bible..:bugeye:

this is where discretion comes in..History and context helps to tease out what is what..
Bingo. So, in the final analysis, interpretation of holy prophesy is meaningless without the faculty to discern what was inspired, and what was merely added or reworded by leaders of early state/religious institutions in their best efforts to control the masses.

“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
~Buddha

"nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."
~Luke 17:21
 
It really isn't.
I've seen my x-rays.
lol. Funny man. I'm not sure qualities such as Prudence, Temperance, Chastity, Sobriety, Zeal, Honor, Fidelity, Punctuality, Forgiveness, Charity, Kindness, Generosity, Gratitude for all things received, Love of Mankind and Nature, Confidence in Human Nature, Compassion, Truth, Justice, Honesty and Toleration will show up on your MRI.
 
lol. Funny man. I'm not sure qualities such as Prudence, Temperance, Chastity, Sobriety, Zeal, Honor, Fidelity, Punctuality, Forgiveness, Charity, Kindness, Generosity, Gratitude for all things received, Love of Mankind and Nature, Confidence in Human Nature, Compassion, Truth, Justice, Honesty and Toleration will show up on your MRI.
They won't.
I had them removed at the same time as my tonsils.
They were crowding my spleen apparently. And I need that. ;)
 
They won't.
I had them removed at the same time as my tonsils.
They were crowding my spleen apparently. And I need that. ;)
Yes. . . I remember you once asking me what the hell "humility" could be used for. And I have to admit, you stumped me. Unless you wanted to get along better with people and be a decent human being, really had no answer for you. You really could do with out it, couldn't you? I could come up with a half a dozen scientists that gave lectures about the statistical and sociological advantages of humility. . . but I really couldn't come up with any compelling reason why one needed to be humble.

So for some, I suppose, tis true. The kingdom of god resides not in them. :eek:
 
Bah!
I thought my pun would have elicited some comment.
ничего...
 
Bah!
I thought my pun would have elicited some comment.
ничего...
Are you so sure it didn't elicit a comment? Perhaps in your arrogance, and unwillingness to listen, you didn't see it? lol I don't know the bible very well, but I think somewhere in there, Jesus said something about, if you have ears, you should listen. I think I know what he meant now. :p

If you were a bit more humble, what use would you have for spleen?
 
I see.
One cannot be modest and respectful and at the same time ever get angry about something.
Interesting...
I suppose. Of course. We all have things we need to work on. :) Mine is judging. I judged you pretty harshly when we first met. Wow you angered me. But then, I probably wasn't being modest and respectful. . . :p
 
I suppose. Of course.
QED. (I think - I took that as one can be humble and still vent spleen).

Mine is judging. I judged you pretty harshly when we first met. Wow you angered me.
Pfft, I won't apologise (because that would ruin my image). But I was pushing me and (mostly) ideas, not you.

But then, I probably wasn't being modest and respectful. . . :p
But you've learned since to be modest (around me) and respectful (of me). ;)
 
But aren't you thereby also presuming that religion is all myth, story, and that there, essentially, is no God?
I don't see how you extract that sense from my list.
1. Knowledge of historical context.
2. Critical thinking skills.
3. Ability to source and understand scholarly research
4. Absence of any strong prejudicial beliefs

You appear to be taking the position that anyone with these characteristics would arrive at an atheist position. That would appear to be valid if and only if there is no God. Positing that seems to indicate that you have a strong prejudicial belief in this matter and should be excluded from the attempts to understand scripture.
 
QED. (I think - I took that as one can be humble and still vent spleen).

What does that matter to you? You state yourself you are false? You hold no aspirations of honor, correct?

At a certain point, these are answers only the individual can find. You needn't press me. I know what I think of me, and what I think of you. And. . . I am honest as well, not false. So don't "QED" my ass. I make no pretenses. lol Do you want to know if it can be done? I said, go ask an expert in the area. It would be disingenuous of me to just say, no, one can't be humble and vent spleen. I am not sufficiently expert in this area to explain intelligently enough to you why. It takes a lifetime to be so humble in every respect so that one doesn't, and only that person could explain why.

I have found a written explanation for you by the Dali Lama, however, it is moot. I am sure you will have a follow up question, and, more than likely, I will not be able to answer it. (I am no Zen master. :p) First, we'll start with one of his meditations, then his explanation. You do meditate don't you? Of course not, silly me. lol

Whenever I interact with someone,
May I view myself as the lowest amongst all,
And, from the very depths of my heart,
Respectfully hold others as superior.

"Moving on to another line of the verse, I think it is important to understand the expression "May I see myself lower than all others" in the right context. Certainly it is not saying that you should engage in thoughts that would lead to lower self-esteem, or that you should lose all sense of hope and feel dejected, thinking, "I'm the lowest of all. I have no capacity, I cannot do anything and have no power." This is not the kind of consideration of lowness that is being referred to here. The regarding of oneself as lower than others really has to be understood in relative terms. Generally speaking, human beings are superior to animals. We are equipped with the ability to judge between right and wrong and to think in terms of the future and so on. However, one could also argue that in other respects human beings are inferior to animals. For example, animals may not have the ability to judge between right and wrong in a moral sense, and they might not have the ability to see the long-term consequences of their actions, but within the animal realm there is at least a certain sense of order. If you look at the African savannah, for example, predators prey on other animals only out of necessity when they are hungry. When they are not hungry, you can see them coexisting quite peacefully. But we human beings, despite our ability to judge between right and wrong, sometimes act out of pure greed. Sometimes we engage in actions purely out of indulgence--we kill out of a sense of "sport," say, when we go hunting or fishing. So, in a sense, one could argue that human beings have proven to be inferior to animals. It is in such relativistic terms that we can regard ourselves as lower than others. One of the reasons for using the word "lower" is to emphasize that normally when we give in to ordinary emotions of anger, hatred, strong attachment, and greed, we do so without any sense of restraint. Often we are totally oblivious to the impact our behavior has on other sentient beings. But by deliberately cultivating the thought of regarding others as superior and worthy of your reverence, you provide yourself with a restraining factor. Then, when emotions arise, they will not be so powerful as to cause you to disregard the impact of your actions upon other sentient beings. It is on these grounds that recognition of others as superior to yourself is suggested. "
http://www.dalailama.com/teachings/training-the-mind/verse-2

So basically, if you were humble, you'd care how your anger is going to affect others. There is no room for your spleen whilst attempting to cultivate a trained mind/spirit. Or as those fruity Christians like to say, the "kingdom of god." :p

And I'd never expect you to apologize for something you don't recall. Don't be ridiculous. In fact, I wouldn't expect an apology from anyone for anything on here, would you? How ridiculous. If I do get someone admitting they learned something or, an, "oh gee, you were right," I probably just found a decent human being.
 
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