Anybody a Scientologist?

the over all theme... in scientology....

is that.. they... are making the world a better place.

they.. are... as being different from jews and christians etc...

they.. are bent on it... making the world better.. without war.. without hate.

and they believe the way to do so.. is threw ones self.. and the solving for 'the problems of the mind'
since, it can be argued that all problems stem from the mind...


based on that... by helping the individual too remove his negative thoughts and traits, they do.. make the world better. by making people better.

hence...


the reason for the 'celebrity center' in LA... it is huge and decadent.. and is meant specifcally to cater to the rich... the famous... and most importantly...
the influencial.


that is their goal.. and that is how they plan on doing it.

a tactic, which is questionalble in it self.... since they offer no actual politcal or science solutions to any real world problems.

they ... believe that by improving the minds of our leaders...

that we could then improve the world.... a questionalbe logic.

-MT
 
The Unfunny Truth about Scientology

Yes, its YTMND so its not exactly the most reputable source on the internet, but this YTMND does put forth some evidence of events that have actually happened under the watch of Scientologists...
 
Mosheh Thezion said:
the over all theme... in scientology....

is that.. they... are making the world a better place.

they.. are... as being different from jews and christians etc...

they.. are bent on it... making the world better.. without war.. without hate.

and they believe the way to do so.. is threw ones self.. and the solving for 'the problems of the mind'
since, it can be argued that all problems stem from the mind...


based on that... by helping the individual too remove his negative thoughts and traits, they do.. make the world better. by making people better.

hence...


the reason for the 'celebrity center' in LA... it is huge and decadent.. and is meant specifcally to cater to the rich... the famous... and most importantly...
the influencial.


that is their goal.. and that is how they plan on doing it.

a tactic, which is questionalble in it self.... since they offer no actual politcal or science solutions to any real world problems.

they ... believe that by improving the minds of our leaders...

that we could then improve the world.... a questionalbe logic.

-MT

So, they believe by changing our leaders views to there own that the world will work more peacefully? Well if this is true, then it is a possible way to fix the world, after massive amounts of fighting, to make everyone agree with you.
 
yes... but their tactic... IS to bombard you with the vast lybrary of books by hubbard... so that even another genius.. is forced to stop and say.. wow.

they honestly... believe and promote... 'teach'

that hubbard... is on the same shelf as JESUS, MOSES, KRISHNA, BUDDHA.. ETC...

they even go so far as to think... he is better.. he is modern.. he speaks to them..

to their heart.. with real modern perspective on their real problems..

but only the mental and emotional ones... the intangeble ones..

the ones.. that cant actually be proven...

hence the success of his 'science of mind'... since it is not science.
it is thus... difficult to tear apart...

its all intelectual psuedoscience of the mind... offering people the chance to become alot more than they could ever be wIthout it.... WITHOUT HUBBARD.

and its true... read 20 books by hubbard... and it will effect your mind.

the only question.. is whether there is real benefit.. or intangeble religious benefits.

its the same all over...

the reason i believe they continue... is because the members see themselves as actually improving... which of course happens..

since that is what they obsess over.... so whether it is real or not.. they may see it.

-MT
 
So MT, after assesing all of this, what do you think of scientology, is it a bad thing, or is it something that should be left on its on account?
 
it is not evil... it is not bent on domination... it is not trying to ruin people lives...

it wants to do good.. it wants to help the world.. it wants to be the worlds dominant religion... of course...

JUST LIKE ALLL RELIGIOUS GROUPS.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the question lies in whether it can actually deliver on its promises.


most religions.. promise heaven... salvation and GOD...

scientology offers you absolutly nothing towards your after life.

it is designed to improve this life..... with the idea.... which suggest that an inproved life means an improved soul...

but that depends...

on the desires of a creator, if one exists..... hence the big question...

will it please GOD...???

NO... because scientology has no GOD, other than hubbard.

that is its only real problem... and it cannot be fixed.. because hubbard is dead.. and he was obviously an atheist.

so... by default... most scienetologists are atheists...

thus it becomes a psuedo religion for atheists in favor of science and mental conditioning.

while scientology does not prevent or oppose godly views... it makes no attempt to support them. ... as far as i can tell.. and learned.



its main problem... is the idea of overcoming problems...


as anyone who knows anything can tell you... there are alot of people out there...

and they all have alot of problems.... some have big problems.


and as far as i can see... i live in la.. i see them all the time... 'scientologists'...

they are all... the type of people... who have easily solvable problem...
alittle dicipline... alot of positive motivation... and alot of support... and they can actually get better....

but...

if they were able to really solve the big problems.. some people have...

then they would be shouting it to the roof tops...

thus... it is obvious... they can only handle the handlable problems.

which means... it doesnt work.


the program of wanting to get better... postive motivation.. education.. and alot of support.... is the part that works...

the dianetics and endless religious stuff... is just to cover up that fact.


but... this is just my opinion... based on what i have learned.

and i could be wrong.

-MT
 
I have visited the site, and alot of interesting things came up. I would say it matches the beliefs. Well so they have all of the books because they belive man is immortal. So if you where able to read all of the books in your life, obtained by living healthy. You have completed a mind test in a sort. To them it very possible, but an occurance of this sort is very rare, and will not actually happen until medical science has devised a way to increase the average human life span.

Well, in my opinion i think it could happen, and there for is valid. I have also concluded that it is a religion as much as bhuddism is. But I think their enlightenment comes from very simular aspects of bhuddism, with discipline, and self control. The list goes on but i imagine you get the idea. So scientology isn't a cult, and is not a scam. The fact they need money would be okay, if they weren't bent on dominating the worlds religions.

They're an overall good religion. They have good ideals, and have done no damage to anyone. Except for that rumour of the kidnapping, which i still haven't seen any documentation of.
But yea, that's pretty much my basis on it now.
 
I'm an ex-member - I was expelled in 2000. But I was only with them for several weeks. Generally a nice bunch of people but most are incredibly poor because of the large sums of money they have to pay for the auditing sessions and classes. Going to the next level is great but boy you have to pay a fortune to get there.

Is it a money making scam? Absolutely without a doubt. Is there benefit from ridding your mind of past troubles and insecurities? Sure but I have been able to do that these past 30 years using Transcendental Meditation instead which is essentially free.

It isn't really a religion - it just has some sci-fi mystical mumbo-jumbo as a front, which is kinda funny. Behind the scene there is a vast heirarchy of layers all raking in very large sums of money.

For example I had booked a 10 week course for $5000 and then I changed my mind before starting it and requested my money back. Then I discovered these weren't course fees but voluntary donations that were not refundable - oops. After a long battle and many interrogations to ensure I wasn't with the CIA or FBI they gave me my money back and kicked me out.
 
is this true??? oh my my my my...

did they give you and initial reciept when you gave them the money???

and if so... it must state clearly that it was a donation... and how much of it was deductable... OTHERWISE... YOU COULDNT DEDUCT IT.
if they did not tell you... you could deduct it.. then it was a service..

that should be taxed....

this suggests.. they are committing either tax fraud...

or..

they just didnt care about you getting the tax deduction.

they are professionals... they dont forget to give reciepts..

doing so can bring down a non-profit...


my my my...

-MT
 
SnakeLord said:
Well, I was adopted at a rather young age so don't really know much about it. I managed to track them down several years ago and they seem like normal enough people.

It certainly does seem to me that a lot of what people say is nonsense, (like TW's post), what I have personally seen seems to be quite the opposite. They have no problem whatsoever with medical care - indeed my mother spent quite a bit of time in hopsital.

If you want information I'd be happy to talk to them and ask.

My post is rather truthful. Did we not just hear Scientologist Tom Cruise drag Brooke Shields name through the mud by claiming that she has no real reason to seek medical assistance for her severe post-partum depression. She was one of the unlucky few who suffered the most severe and crippling form. His response is that she was being irresponsible and should just take vitamins.

Check here for a case of their negligence, almost murder

How they respond to peaceful picketers

"Scientology is evil; its techniques are evil; its practice is a serious threat to the community, medically, morally, and socially; and its adherents are sadly deluded and often mentally ill... (Scientology is) the world's largest organization of unqualified persons engaged in the practice of dangerous techniques which masquerade as mental therapy."
-- Justice Anderson, Supreme Court of Victoria, Australia

"The government is satisfied that Scientology is socially harmful. It alienates members of families from each other and attributes squalid and disgraceful motives to all who oppose it; its authoritarian principles and practice are a potential menace to the personality and well being of those so deluded as to become followers; above all, its methods can be a serious danger to the health of those who submit to them... There is no power under existing law to prohibit the practice of Scientology; but the government has concluded that it is so objectionable that it would be right to take all steps within its power to curb its growth."
-- Kenneth Robinson, British Minister of Health

"The crime committed by these defendants is of a breath and scope previously unheard of. No building, office, desk, or file was safe from their snooping and prying. No individual or organization was free from their despicable conspiratorial minds. The tools of their trade were miniature transmitters, lock picks, secret codes, forged credentials and any other device they found necessary to carry out their conspiratorial schemes."
-- Federal prosecutor's memorandum to the judge urging stiff jail sentences for 9 top leaders of Scientology who had pleaded guilty to criminal charges

"Scientology is both immoral and socially obnoxious...It is corrupt sinister and dangerous. It is corrupt because it is based on lies and deceit and has its real objective money and power for Mr. Hubbard... It is sinister because it indulges in infamous practices both to its adherents who do not toe the line unquestionably and to those who criticize it or oppose it. It is dangerous because it is out to capture people and to indoctrinate and brainwash them so they become the unquestioning captives and tools of the cult, withdrawn from ordinary thought, living, and relationships with others."
-- Justice Latey, ruling in the High Court of London

"[The court record is] replete with evidence [that Scientology] is nothing in reality but a vast enterprise to extract the maximum amount of money from its adepts by pseudo scientific theories... and to exercise a kind of blackmail against persons who do not wish to continue with their sect.... The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder, L.Ron Hubbard."
-- Judge Breckenridge, Los Angeles Superior Court

"In addition to violating and abusing its own members' civil rights, the organization over the years with its 'fair game' doctrine has harassed and abused those persons not in the church whom it perceives as enemies."
-- Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Paul Breckenridge, June 1984, in the Gerry Armstrong case

"In January 1980, fearing a raid by law enforcement agencies, Hubbard's representatives ordered the shredding of all documents showing that Hubbard controlled Scientology organizations, finances, personnel, or the property at Gilman Hot Springs. In a two week period, approximately one million pages were shredded pursuant to this order."
-- California appellate court, 2nd. district, 3rd. division, July 29, 1991, B025920 &qmp B038975, Super. Ct. No. C 420153

"It is common knowledge among senior executives of the organization and it is the policy of CSC that members of the Boards of Directors are mere figureheads, without authority or control, not for internal corporate reasons, but rather to vest control in Mr. Hubbard. I have personal knowledge that in order to carry out this corporate fraud, organizational executives have engaged in the various unethical practices including backdating phony Board minutes and forging signatures."
-- Affidavit of Gerry Armstrong, former member

"When a person is subjected to coercive persuasion [as in Scientology] without his knowledge or consent ...[he may] develop serious and sometimes irreversible physical and psychiatric disorders, up to and including schizophrenia, self-mutilation, and suicide."
-- California Supreme Court, United States v. Lee [455 U.S. 252,257,258 (1982)*/

"The dispute in this case surrounds Lerma's acquisition and publication on the Internet of texts that the Church of Scientology considers sacred and protects heavily from unauthorized disclosure. Founded by L. Ron Hubbard, the Scientology religion attempts to explain the origin of negative spiritual forces in the world and advances techniques for improving one's own spiritual well-being. Scientologists believe that most human problems can be traced to lingering spirits of an extraterrestrial people massacred by their ruler, Xenu, over 75 million years ago. These spirits attach themselves by "clusters" to individuals in the contemporary world, causing spiritual harm and negatively influencing the lives of their hosts ".
-- USDJ Judge Leonie Brinkema 4 Oct 96 Memorandum Opinion, RTC vs Lerma
 
My post is rather truthful. Did we not just hear Scientologist Tom Cruise drag Brooke Shields name through the mud by claiming that she has no real reason to seek medical assistance for her severe post-partum depression.

Well, would you then say the same about christianity because you read about a christian trying to preach to lions after breaking into a zoo, or the woman that stoned her children to death because god told her to?

With any religion/cult you will undoubtedly come across serious fundamentalist lunatics, but my post was to state that your 'overall' opinion was not entirely valid given that I know of scientologists that do go to doctors and take medicines when needed.

Of course I can and will agree that scientology is dangerous - and would extend that to say that any religion is dangerous and should be outlawed.
 
SnakeLord said:
Well, would you then say the same about christianity because you read about a christian trying to preach to lions after breaking into a zoo, or the woman that stoned her children to death because god told her to?

With any religion/cult you will undoubtedly come across serious fundamentalist lunatics, but my post was to state that your 'overall' opinion was not entirely valid given that I know of scientologists that do go to doctors and take medicines when needed.

Of course I can and will agree that scientology is dangerous - and would extend that to say that any religion is dangerous and should be outlawed.

Okay so your small percentage of Scientologists matches the small percentage of every other religion that is apeshit crazy. The majority of other organized religions are do not stone their children, sacrifice themselves to lions, or molest people. Meanwhile it seems that the vast majority of Scientology does the kind of crap you condemn the crazy people of christanity.

So it works like this you complain that there is a bit of salt (the bad christians and such) in yoou water then show the Scientology has a drop or two of water in thier salt.
 
Okay so your small percentage of Scientologists matches the small percentage of every other religion that is apeshit crazy. The majority of other organized religions are do not stone their children, sacrifice themselves to lions, or molest people. Meanwhile it seems that the vast majority of Scientology does the kind of crap you condemn the crazy people of christanity.

Well, you seem so confident I can only assume you have some statistics to hand?

"the vast majority of scientology..."

Back it up.

So it works like this you complain that there is a bit of salt (the bad christians and such) in yoou water then show the Scientology has a drop or two of water in thier salt.

Not at all. You would need to provide statistics to back up your claims, all I said was your claims were redundant, unless of course you can provide those statistics concerning them. A couple of links and one Tom Cruise statement hardly equals "the vast majority of scientology".

As I said though, they should all be outlawed and then we don't have to worry about christians blowing up abortion clinics, muslims blowing up innocent civilians or - at the seriously bad side of the scale - scientologists not visiting hopsitals.
 
Well when i say that it's as much as a religion as bhuddism is, i mean they just live a certain life to reach a perfect point. It may very well be a mind trick, and money scam.

But they do have a credible background of making people better. Yes paying alot of money to pass on to the next level seems like it is a scam. But you have to consider how expensive some theorpy sessions can be. If you have a session every week then you may pay more then 50 dollars a session. You could be going to theory for months on end. Which is very close to paying 50 dollars a book.

It takes money to run a religion, just a much as running a clinic. But i cannpt deny that they may be pocketing a vast majority of the money. But this is where i ask some one to give me the evidence they are indeed pocketing the money. Until then i will have a reasonable doubt about it.

Please remember i do not choose scientology as my own religion, i just simply questioned it's intentions.
 
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