Answers to Atheism
- Thread starter Leo Volont
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Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
mario said:
And your point is that you can successfully stonewall even the most Spectacular Miracles. Congratuations. I hope Satan gives you a Big Medal.
Leo Volont said:
Actually, I was thinking about my reading of Malleus Maleficarum (1486), which includes, "Whether the Belief that there are such Beings as Witches is so Essential a Part of the Catholic Faith that Obstinacy to maintain the Opposite Opinion manifestly savours of Heresy..
Leo Volont said:
Indeed. They even had the right to a variety of tortures to get speedy confessions. Then I guess we can agree that any contemporary of Columbus was likely to have a fucked up belief system.
Leo Volont said:
As books go, most of them have primary sources that include letters, bills of laden, receipts, annals, and other documents to reference their deductions. The same cannot be said of most religious texts that rely on faith and belief among the superstitious followers.
Leo Volont said:
That belies your knowlege of science. The correct version of that should read thus:
"A miracle proven by a scientist is no longer a miracle."
ok, he's defending the Inquisition. We've a Catholic version of Proud Muslim on our hands.
"A scientist who proves a miracle is no longer a scientist".
Webster's definition 1 : an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs
How would you "prove" a miracle? It isn't possible, because to do so would be to prove the existence of some sort of god. And all reasonable people know that isn't possible.
"A scientist who proves a miracle is no longer a scientist".
Webster's definition 1 : an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs
How would you "prove" a miracle? It isn't possible, because to do so would be to prove the existence of some sort of god. And all reasonable people know that isn't possible.
I hate sentences like this. Can't parse it, dunno what you're trying to say.
Joy, another one.
Huh? All I got out of that is that you're putting words in my mouth.
Now that makes no sense. Absolutes are absolute by definition (duh), and the imagination is not absolute.
There's this book-a really important book. It's called a dictionary. I suggest you use it. Try looking up the word "absolute." You might learn something.
The existence of absolutes itself is an absolute. It is a necessary truth because it's negation is self contradictory. Consider these two statements:
1 - There are absolute truths.
2 - There are no absolute truths.
Statement 2 is the negation of 1. It is also self contradictory since it is an absolute statement itself. Therefore, statement 1 is a necessary (absolute) truth.
Where'd that come from? Well known skeptic Michael Shermer estimates that during the course of a normal/average person's life a miracle occurs about once a month.
Repo Man said:
It's now official. Though I'm sure we've all condemned this moron in our minds, it helps to say it in words.
Leo Volont is hereby declared to be the Catholic version of Proud Muslim.
At least this nutcase doesn't advocate slaughtering all non-Catholic "infidels". Or perhaps I haven't gotten to all his threads yet.
Gee, it's almost a shame I've retired from grinding religious idiots into the ground. Good were those anti-creationism crusading days.
I'm just getting old, aren't I.
OH GODS. IS THAT A GRAY HAIR?!! Noooo.
Atheist argument: religion is a social construction.
That is already quite enough for me to dismiss god.
That is already quite enough for me to dismiss god.
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Repo Man said:
So you prove my point. Atheists are being quite disingenuous when they ask for Proof of the Miraculous. The Scientific Community really is willing to drum out any Respected Colleague who verifies an Apparently Impossible Supernatural Intervention.
Can I ask why the existence of miracles necessailly lead one to the belief in God?
I could suggest that these so called miracles are only deemed such simply because we don't understand them.
Science for example is constantly aware of the greatest "miracle" of all and endeavours towards underastanding this most important miracle, that being the coming into the existence of this universe from a place of nothingness. The "miracle" of the big bang' and evolution since then.
I could suggest that these so called miracles are only deemed such simply because we don't understand them.
Science for example is constantly aware of the greatest "miracle" of all and endeavours towards underastanding this most important miracle, that being the coming into the existence of this universe from a place of nothingness. The "miracle" of the big bang' and evolution since then.
For example it could be argured that The Christ was actually a quantum physicists whith out knowing it. he had learned in a "religious environment" how to use his mind and body in a way that the miracles occured. Science of course is unable at this stage to support this notion however it is possible that in the future the miracles of Christ will actually prove to be no miracle at all but pure physics performed in ignorance of that physics.
When persons refer to the supernatural they usually do in terms of some sort of flimsy imagination that is not mooted in reality thus God becomes relegated to an unsupportable flimsy. Religion actually creates a situation where the God of their definition is not physical, when it may come to be known that he is in fact physical and not sitting in heaven somewhere in the clouds delegating his responsibilities.
The supernatural may very well prove to be quite natural and physical.
For example once ESP is proven to exist and can be tested scientifically then the Christ is now properly understood.
When persons refer to the supernatural they usually do in terms of some sort of flimsy imagination that is not mooted in reality thus God becomes relegated to an unsupportable flimsy. Religion actually creates a situation where the God of their definition is not physical, when it may come to be known that he is in fact physical and not sitting in heaven somewhere in the clouds delegating his responsibilities.
The supernatural may very well prove to be quite natural and physical.
For example once ESP is proven to exist and can be tested scientifically then the Christ is now properly understood.
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ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
To what supernatural are you referring?Quantum Quack said:
Leo Volont said:
Leo,
75000 people (whom are beings subject to interpretation) do not creat
a fact if they assert similar claims. It also doesn't make it fiction; however,
without the existence of fantastic data to support a fantastic claim, it
remains unproven and unsupported. We're in an age where we can record
video, audio, microwave, magnetic, electric, heat, etc. data. Surely someone
will be able to record some of this fantastic data.
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I totally agree crunchy, also have you noticed, since the advent of the video camera, that there has been less sighting's, of UFO phenomena, sorry I diversify.
Leo is constantly making ludicrous claim's, he cant substantiate.
he just expect's everybody to believe it as truth, and get's angry when we dont.
Leo is constantly making ludicrous claim's, he cant substantiate.
he just expect's everybody to believe it as truth, and get's angry when we dont.
Leo,
Each to their own but there simply is no evidence, much less proof either for or against the existance of a God or Gods.
All we have is common sense and logic. Both of which run against a God or Gods existing.
Personally I find every man made religion insults and demeans any God or Gods that could possibly exists, of which I am thorughly convienced do not exist.
Enjoy your fantasy.
Each to their own but there simply is no evidence, much less proof either for or against the existance of a God or Gods.
All we have is common sense and logic. Both of which run against a God or Gods existing.
Personally I find every man made religion insults and demeans any God or Gods that could possibly exists, of which I am thorughly convienced do not exist.
Enjoy your fantasy.
My overall point being that the so called supernatural pheno that Leo is referring to may very well prove to by far from supernatural in that it or they may be very physical in cause and effect. Just that we are unable to undersatnd the physics invloved.
My premise being that everything is the product of the physical and thet imaginary flimsy also is physical in origin and effect.
The events, that have led to religion, being misinterpreted as an act of God when in fact the acts are of a physical nature of yet to be determined origon. Humans being so such a superstitions people that to qualify the unknoiwn as the act of a fictitious God to afford comfort for the fear that the unknown can create.
SkinWalker: Actually, I was thinking about my reading of Malleus Maleficarum(1486), which includes, whether the Belief that there are such Beings as Witches is so Essential a Part of the Catholic Faith that Obstinacy to maintain the Opposite Opinion manifestly savours of Heresy.
Indeed. They even had the right to a variety of tortures to get speedy confessions. Then I guess we can agree that any contemporary of Columbus was likely to have a fucked up belief system.
As books go, most of them have primary sources that include letters, bills of laden, receipts, annals, and other documents to reference their deductions. The same cannot be said of most religious texts that rely on faith and belief among the superstitious followers.
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M*W: Only the RCC could come up with such bullshit. In one of my books of published poetry, I wrote a poem about my nine million sisters who were tortured and killed by the RCC following the publication of the Malleus Maleficarum -- stress on the "Male-ficarum." But they didn't get me -- nine million and one! Maybe that poem is on the Art and Culture Forum.
Indeed. They even had the right to a variety of tortures to get speedy confessions. Then I guess we can agree that any contemporary of Columbus was likely to have a fucked up belief system.
As books go, most of them have primary sources that include letters, bills of laden, receipts, annals, and other documents to reference their deductions. The same cannot be said of most religious texts that rely on faith and belief among the superstitious followers.
*************
M*W: Only the RCC could come up with such bullshit. In one of my books of published poetry, I wrote a poem about my nine million sisters who were tortured and killed by the RCC following the publication of the Malleus Maleficarum -- stress on the "Male-ficarum." But they didn't get me -- nine million and one! Maybe that poem is on the Art and Culture Forum.
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M*W: I think Leo Volont is a pseudonym for ConsequentAtheist! Both of them are sick.
M*W: I think Leo Volont is a pseudonym for ConsequentAtheist! Both of them are sick.
I think is would be fair to say that we are all "sick" just some are more than others.... 
Medicine Woman said:
I'll have to run a search for it later tonight. It sounds interesting.