Another blow against the “homosexual agenda”

Mystech

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DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) -- Lawmakers blocked the nomination of an openly gay lawyer to the state school board Tuesday, ending two days of heated debate in which some Republicans expressed fear that he would promote a gay agenda.


"I have heard from more people than I have ever heard from about a confirmation," said Boettger, chairman of the Senate Education Committee. "They don't want any hint of pushing the gay lifestyle through our school system."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/13/gay.nominee.ap/index.html

Just what the hell is this "homosexual agenda" I'm always hearing about, and when exactly do I get to be let in on it as a part of it? I'd love to be a part of an underground movement to subvert the American way of life. Hmm, though maybe, as usual, this is just another case of reactionary religious right-wing republicans going ballistic because people want to be treated with equality despite arbitrary differences.

This man had apparently served for 12 years already anyhow, so I don’t see what the big deal is. If he was going to push the homosexual agenda wouldn’t he have gotten it done by now?

And what exactly is this “homosexual lifestyle” that conservatives keep talking about? Are they afraid that home-economics classes will start teaching interior decorating and how to bake a kiesh (Sp)? That’s an unfair stereotype, there are plenty of “straight acting” (A term I find inherently offensive because it implies that homosexual males don’t normally act in the same manner, but again I’m tailoring this for my audience, so I guess it’s gotta’ go in there) homosexual men who don’t bother with these things. Iowa parents could rest assured that their children wouldn’t come home singing Broadway show tunes, or showing off rainbow colored friendship bracelets, the very idea is ridiculous. Or maybe, again as is far more likely, they fear that somehow having a gay man on the school board will turn their kids gay. How exactly does that work? Are they going to catch homosexuality through osmosis? Is he going to bombard them with homofairy rays? Has he and the international homosexual conspiracy developed a sodomite™ compound which will turn an otherwise straight child gay if ingested in school cafeteria food?

Aren’t we already at war with religious fanatics in the middle east? Would it really be so wrong to devote some resources to bombing the Bible belt? I’m really starting to loose faith in America.
 
well, the school gets to choose who they want to employ, they dont want to employ drunks because they wont be as good teachers and might harm children, they have their reasons for not wanting gay people near their children, even if they arent very good reasons

if a man has a right to be gay, surely the school has the right not to employ him

and a gay school could refuse to employ straight people
 
Hey, I'm a drunk and would probably make a better teacher than most! And I wouldn't harm too many children either. So there!
 
alain said:
well, the school gets to choose who they want to employ, they dont want to employ drunks because they wont be as good teachers and might harm children, they have their reasons for not wanting gay people near their children

Actually there is a qualitative difference there. Drunks might be harmful, and almost certainly couldn't handle all the paperwork promptly. Gays however don’t have any of these harmful qualities. Unless he is a gay drunk, but the article doesn’t say anything about that. There is no reason to not give him the post except for the conservative social engineering agenda.
 
alain said:
well, the school gets to choose who they want to employ, they dont want to employ drunks because they wont be as good teachers and might harm children, they have their reasons for not wanting gay people near their children, even if they arent very good reasons

What good reasons? He was rejected based upon the fact that he's openly gay? Where do good reasons come in? It's a facet of his life that should have absolutely no bearing on his ability to perform the job of a member of a school board. I should certainly hope that the sexuality of the straight board members don't come into play at all in the course of performing their duties, that would be rather scandalous and unfortunate, don't you think?

alain said:
if a man has a right to be gay, surely the school has the right not to employ him

And if a man "chooses" to be black, should the school board then be able to reject him on those grounds as well?

alain said:
and a gay school could refuse to employ straight people

Saddly I very much doubt that this would be the case. You can apply to Harvey Milk HS in New York to test that theory, though. Be sure to list that you are openly straight on the resume. Best not to mention that you're in favor of descrimination against homosexuals, though, that could bias your findings.
 
alright, stop attacking me, i didnt say i thought they were good reasons, just that the school has reasons which the school thinks are good

mystech, im sure they could, assuming they were bothered, i mean, they could tell the guy it was because he was a bad teacher, even if it was cos he was straight

sorry jinchilla, sorry many other drunks, but a few drunks have a tendancy to sleep in, and have an hangover all day

it would not be fun teaching a class of kids whilst u had a hangover
 
alain said:
mystech, im sure they could, assuming they were bothered, i mean, they could tell the guy it was because he was a bad teacher, even if it was cos he was straight

But in either case you're getting shafted. Why should anyone be denied a job they are qualified for based entirely upon factors which don't at all apply to the duties of the job? I can understand turning down a one armed man from a job lifting boxes, or a blind man a job as night watchman, but a barring a homosexual from serving on a school board on which he has already served for 12 years solely because he has openly admitted to being a homosexual is simply wrong no matter how you spin it.
 
"it would not be fun teaching a class of kids whilst u had a hangover"

Agreed. That's when I'd be most likely to harm a few.
 
jinchilla said:
"it would not be fun teaching a class of kids whilst u had a hangover"

Agreed. That's when I'd be most likely to harm a few.

We need to reintroduce corporal punishment into the public school system anyway.
 
Yeah, that's true sexual preferences should never be mixed with the job place. It should be soley determined on ability and aptitude.
 
Jussme said:
Yeah, that's true sexual preferences should never be mixed with the job place. It should be soley determined on ability and aptitude.

Unless your sexual preferences actually have some sort of bearing in the work you do, though honestly I can't think of any job where that's aplicable. . . maybe porn star.
 
Schools have the right to attempt to follow the public ethics. Because there is not a reasonable alternative to a schools monopoly the schools have the right to choose their staff based on weather they are gay, smoke, hunt animals, or any other activity which a large percentage of their customers find offensive. Their customers are the parents.
 
alain said:
If a man has a right to be gay, surely the school has the right not to employ him.
Nobody has a "right" to be gay or straight. They're either gay or they're straight, but it's not something they choose to do.

I don't mean to pick on you because by and large you express a fairly sensible position on this issue. But it's a widespread notion that people can choose to be or not to be gay.

People who talk that way are clearly talking from zero experience. Probably never knowingly met a gay person in their life. My wife and I have lived in major cosmopolitan areas AND worked in civil service for most of our lives, so we know a lot of out-of-the-closet gay people. Trust me, whenever the ridiculous subject of "choosing" one's sexual orientation comes up, nineteen out of twenty of them burst into laugher and say, "Do you think anyone in their right mind would have chosen this life? To be ostracized, ridiculed and punished, to have to keep some of the most important aspects of your life (like who your significant other is) secret from almost everyone you know, to be discriminated against (until very recently) in child custody, community property, medical care, and inheritance decisions? I'm happy being gay because it's what I am, but if what I am were straight, I'd be a whole lot happier."

What many gay people have done is try to live a straight lifestyle with a heterosexual marriage and children and the whole thing. Some because they were brought up in an atmosphere where homosexuality was never discussed and they just assumed that no matter how they felt in their hearts, the only possible life choice was to attempt to fit in and live like everybody else. Others because they perceived that being known as gay would be very dangerous, so they tried to live straight as a survival tactic.

Look at all the things people are able to force themselves to do because they have a good reason. Just the things people do in the name of their religion are plenty scary. If you think it would be impossibly difficult to spend your life celibate or to marry and have relations with a person of the gender you're not attracted to, in order to avoid being persecuted, imagine how much harder it was for people of an unpopular religion to be burned at the stake, in order to avoid disgracing their faith by pretending to convert. Humans have a remarkable ability to endure pain, both physical and emotional, for the right cause.

I don't think that most of the anti-gay crowd really believes that sexual orientation is a choice. But they do believe that gay people can choose not to live gay, and simply fake heterosexuality. All that matters to these people is appearance, not substance. I guess deep down inside they believe the statistic that ten percent of the population is gay (personally I think it's not totally wrong but perhaps just a teeny bit exaggerated) and that therefore one of their own children might be gay. They don't give a damn about the child's happiness, they just don't want him to embarrass them by being gay openly. They'd rather the kid be miserable and pretend to be straight. One of our friends from a hard-ass Catholic family did that for 25 years, got married and sired five really nice children. When his wife died and the children grew up he moved to the big city and got himself a boyfriend that he lived with for the next 25 years. His kids still love him and call his boyfriend Uncle.

So the anti-gay crowd does not want their children to have role models of people who are gay and are not ashamed to admit it. Because if one of their children is gay, they don't want him to admit it. They just want him to suffer in silence.

That's what the anti-gay-teacher movement is all about. When you think about it, it's child abuse! Forcing your child to live a miserable life to avoid making you uncomfortable.
 
Mystech, I think I can understand why the board would reject someone like that. It does not matter how qualified, if they are not willing to teach what Iowa wants to teach, then it won't matter. This, I think, was the point made about the "gay agenda." It would not matter if he was gay, but if he began teaching what is considered part of that agenda, then the school, protecting the parants wishes rejected him.

Now I won't pretend to know what this gay agenda is, but I think the majority of Iowa wants their sons and daughters to eventually marry, becoming straight members of society.

Look at all the things people are able to force themselves to do because they have a good reason. Just the things people do in the name of their religion are plenty scary. If you think it would be impossibly difficult to spend your life celibate or to marry and have relations with a person of the gender you're not attracted to, in order to avoid being persecuted, imagine how much harder it was for people of an unpopular religion to be burned at the stake, in order to avoid disgracing their faith by pretending to convert. Humans have a remarkable ability to endure pain, both physical and emotional, for the right cause.
Well, name someone who was burned at the stake to avoid disgracing a faith that would burn them?

People who talk that way are clearly talking from zero experience. Probably never knowingly met a gay person in their life. My wife and I have lived in major cosmopolitan areas AND worked in civil service for most of our lives, so we know a lot of out-of-the-closet gay people. Trust me, whenever the ridiculous subject of "choosing" one's sexual orientation comes up, nineteen out of twenty of them burst into laugher and say, "Do you think anyone in their right mind would have chosen this life? To be ostracized, ridiculed and punished, to have to keep some of the most important aspects of your life (like who your significant other is) secret from almost everyone you know, to be discriminated against (until very recently) in child custody, community property, medical care, and inheritance decisions? I'm happy being gay because it's what I am, but if what I am were straight, I'd be a whole lot happier."
The same could be said to many drug addicts, drunkards, and even heterosexuals.

They don't give a damn about the child's happiness, they just don't want him to embarrass them by being gay openly. They'd rather the kid be miserable and pretend to be straight. One of our friends from a hard-ass Catholic family did that for 25 years, got married and sired five really nice children. When his wife died and the children grew up he moved to the big city and got himself a boyfriend that he lived with for the next 25 years. His kids still love him and call his boyfriend Uncle.
I typically have not experienced this problem. I'm neither openly heterosexual or homosexual. I would expect that the teachers would be the same way, because if a teacher ever felt the need to discuss personal matters like that, then there is a problem.



.
 
okinrus said:
Now I won't pretend to know what this gay agenda is, but I think the majority of Iowa wants their sons and daughters to eventually marry, becoming straight members of society.

If there can be said to be a homosexual agenda then it's simply to be accepted in society and have the same rights as everyone else. Pretty awful isn't it?

Other than that it's just a bunch of weak stomached conservatives fretting and spreading fear and stupidity to make people fear that there's some sort of evil subversive conspiracy going on.

Also, give the article a read through, he's trying to get back onto the school board, not become a teacher. Even a gay, teacher, though wouldn't be able to infect his students with evil homo-fairy rays, so jumpy dim-witted rural parents wouldn't have to worry about a gay teacher turning their kids gay.
 
If there can be said to be a homosexual agenda then it's simply to be accepted in society and have the same rights as everyone else. Pretty awful isn't it?
I think it has alot to do with how homosexuals appear to that area, rather than any form of reality.

Other than that it's just a bunch of weak stomached conservatives fretting and spreading fear and stupidity to make people fear that there's some sort of evil subversive conspiracy going on.
There is always an evil subversive conspiracy...it's just usually the one the populace do not see.

Also, give the article a read through, he's trying to get back onto the school board, not become a teacher. Even a gay, teacher, though wouldn't be able to infect his students with evil homo-fairy rays, so jumpy dim-witted rural parents wouldn't have to worry about a gay teacher turning their kids gay.
But it's ultimately decided upon vote. Obviously those voting are not obligated to vote for who has the best credentials but who would do the best job. Job for these conservatives means the perpetuation of republican values.
 
The job of schools is to prepare students to function in a future career situation. Weather the schools are succeeding or not is subject to debate. Currently homosexuals have it rough therefore it is in the interest of the student.... no I can't agree I think that it is probably in the student’s best interest to have at least one openly homosexual teacher on staff to help them deal with the problems that come with choosing an alternative lifestyle. I do not know enough homosexuals to know weather or not homosexuality is a choice. Weather it is a choice or not it seem pretty cruel to let children try to figure out such a complicated issue without any assistance. What makes us human is our ability to make rational decisions with regards to future consequences. I admit that all issues being equal sexual immorality which is what I consider homosexuality would cause me to vote for the other guy. It would not be a killer issue but it would be an issue. The people of Iowa do have the right to vote for whoever they want.
 
because if a teacher ever felt the need to discuss personal matters like that, then there is a problem.

I agree.

Why in the world did this lawyer running for school board feel it necessary to be openly sexual about anything during his job application (or contract renewal or whatever)?

That's a problem, really it is.

I've had many jobs and many interviews... and not once has the issue of my sexual orientation came up.

I think if you had to define the 'homosexual agenda', that would be a big part of it.

Homosexual Agenda: Shoving one's homosexuality down everyone elses throat. (ie. being "openly gay or lesbian")

If, like the lawyer in this story, you are openly gay and then you get fired or not selected for a job or something, you then label the people involved as gay-haters and claim that the only reason they didn't hire you was because of your sexual orientation.

That, my friends, is the homosexual agenda.
 
Haha, give me a fucking break MacPluse. Homosexuality doesn’t become an issue because homosexuals dress up in hot pink, lisp and shout about how fabulous they feel, in a job interview! They don't even say "I’m homosexual, I hope you don't have a problem with that" (Though that hardly sounds like rubbing it in someone’s face) You never mention your sexuality, and I bet that your co-workers know you are strait. Why? Because you mention your girlfriend! You bring up the subject of who you are dating. This sort talk between coworkers is completely natural. Why should a homosexual not be allowed to bring up his personal life when its appropriate? Should gay people just stay quiet at work and not socialize with their coworkers? Should we remain ever conscious to never ever reveal to the people we work closely with who the most important person in our lives are right now? Maybe so we don't seem suspicious we should just make up some person of the opposite gender to talk about so it doesn’t seem like we are holding back. Would that satisfy your sense of social outrage?
 
SpyMoose said:
Would that satisfy your sense of social outrage?

My sense of social outrage? Who's post did you read?

Anyway, what you said had nothing to do with the fact that the lawyer mentioned in the beginning of this thread was openly gay, and then apparently claims he wasn't selected for re-employment because of his sexual orientation. Did anyone stop and think that it's possible he wasn't just fit for the job? Just because he had it already doesn't mean anything. And just because he was "openly gay" doesn't mean that was the reason for not selecting him.

SpyMoose said:
Why should a homosexual not be allowed to bring up his personal life when its appropriate?

It's rarely appropriate in a professional working situation to discuss anything of a sexual nature. That was my point... being 'openly gay' is nothing more than being proud about the type of sex you have. I'm not 'openly heterosexual' - I don't talk about my sex life or my relationships. I'd get fired if I went walking around saying "Yeah, I tell ya what, me and the wife did 38 of the Kama Sutra positions last night... man, what a fucking workout. Oh, and Bob, did you get that memo?"

Give me a fucking break.

I maintain my position. Being "open-anything' is just shoving your 'agenda' down someone else's throat. That rarely is appropriate in any situation, much less a work environment.
 
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