Announcement

[Leo Volont]

That's the whole point. Water is working on a premise that doesn't fit into everyone's little boxes.
Water is one of the few people who seems to be looking at both sides to find something useful, instead of sticking to half the evidence and wallowing in the same "you said", "I said", "she said", diatribe.

***applause***

How would you know? Maybe if you know what he is talking about, YOU can give us an essay, because he seems to like to keep his Vast Wisdom close to the chest. I guess he's afraid we might steal his ideas and be as smart as he is. I don't think he has anything to worry about.

 

[Leo Volont]

Leo, Protestants object to saints because saint-worship is idolatrous.

They hate Mary because Mary Worship is idolatrous. They hate saints because saint worship is idolatrous. Wow, I guess it is the rule to hate everything in Heaven, except God... oh wait, they Worship Jesus. Hey, isn't that idolatrous?

You know, that is the problem Muslims have with Protestants. Everything is Idolatry to Protestants except their own Preferred Worship of Somebody who isn't God except by human proclamation.

If you look at it logically, if one can be permitted to worship Jesus, then why not any Saint. Every Saint who has been given by God a noticeable measure of Grace is certainly the recipient thereby of a Divine Endorcement. If God does not hate these people, than why should we.

Protestants simply love excuses to hate. That is what identifies them as Satanic Antichrists.

 

[Leo Volont]

Isaac Asimov once got irritated with the editor of some esoteric magazine who had attempted to show that Reason was not necessarily the only path to truth. He wrote back to him, "You tell me that Reason is not the only path of discovery. Your argument however consists of attempting to Reason the point. Don't tell me, show me! Paint me a picture, meditate me a meditation, do something that will directly convince me that does not involve the use of Reason." He got no reply.

Asimov is a stupid jack ass. He gave himself his own reply and apparently did not know it: "meditate me a meditation". Asimov refuses to meditate. Asimov just wants to play with words his whole life. The Editor decided he had better things to do with his time.

 

[Leo Volont]

The opening post is not an essay, and it doesn't say much anyway.

You seem to be proud of your lack of accomplishments. I hope that put that on your tombstone: " He did not really live, and he did not do anything anyway".

 

[water]

Random related thought: Faith is only possible if there exists a potential for skepticism.

Yes I agree -- as only if there is a potential for skepticism, trying to solve it demands acting on faith.
This is how faith makes sense.


* * *

If you succeed, you will be past omniscient, maybe past God.

How on earth have you come to this conclusion?
:bugeye:

But I don't expect you to. No one does. I suppose everyone is a realist just like me. I admire your courage however. To make an announcement like that takes balls - which you don't have. Best of luck chasing that rainbow.

I don't have balls, huh?
Alright ...


* * *

How would you know? Maybe if you know what he is talking about, YOU can give us an essay, because he seems to like to keep his Vast Wisdom close to the chest. I guess he's afraid we might steal his ideas and be as smart as he is. I don't think he has anything to worry about.
/.../
I hope that put that on your tombstone: " He did not really live, and he did not do anything anyway".

I am a he?
Hehe.

You seem to be proud of your lack of accomplishments.

Leo, lighten up!

Some braggin never hurts.

 

[§outh§tar]

How on earth have you come to this conclusion?
:bugeye:

You claim you will do the impossible. The mathematical impossibility - never has been done, never will be done. Not that I don't trust you will come up with something fine but - I don't think you will succeed in what you stated as your goal. If you do succeed in the impossible, will you not be clever beyond cleverness?

I don't have balls, huh?
Alright ...

Speaking literally. Or so I hope..

 

[Silas]

They hate Mary because Mary Worship is idolatrous. They hate saints because saint worship is idolatrous. Wow, I guess it is the rule to hate everything in Heaven, except God... oh wait, they Worship Jesus. Hey, isn't that idolatrous?

You know, that is the problem Muslims have with Protestants. Everything is Idolatry to Protestants except their own Preferred Worship of Somebody who isn't God except by human proclamation.

If you look at it logically, if one can be permitted to worship Jesus, then why not any Saint. Every Saint who has been given by God a noticeable measure of Grace is certainly the recipient thereby of a Divine Endorcement. If God does not hate these people, than why should we.

Protestants simply love excuses to hate. That is what identifies them as Satanic Antichrists.

The only evidence of hatred I see here is in your last line. It may surprise you to learn that neither the Pope nor the Archbishop of Canterbury nor any other prominent Christian leader regards the adherents to the other side as Satanic Antichrists. That is a 16th Century attitude and it's about time it was buried forever.

Asimov is a stupid jack ass. He gave himself his own reply and apparently did not know it: "meditate me a meditation". Asimov refuses to meditate. Asimov just wants to play with words his whole life. The Editor decided he had better things to do with his time.

I don't know why you're speaking about Asimov (whom, incidentally, his worst enemy would not ever accuse of being "stupid") in the present tense - it's almost 13 years since he died. Asimov was pointing out that you can't use Reason to promote the supposed (and as far as I can see totally imaginary) benefits of Non-Reason. He was enjoining the editor (or any anti-rationalist) to persuade Asimov by means such as telepathy which would prove the point being made that Reason was not the only answer. Asimov himself would have acknowledged that the editor failed to reply because he had better things to do with his time than attempt the overtly impossible.

 

[water]

You claim you will do the impossible. The mathematical impossibility - never has been done, never will be done. Not that I don't trust you will come up with something fine but - I don't think you will succeed in what you stated as your goal.

I don't see why it should be a "mathematical impossibility". All I have to do is show that faith is not something circular. I already have it outlined in my mind, will take some to pour it into the right words. It will take some preparation.

The only problem, as I see it, is that some seem to think that faith is something otherworldly, unprovable, nebulous and such -- and hence the ideas of faith's circularity. It is basically these notions of faith that need to be unnebuled (I just made up that word).

If you do succeed in the impossible, will you not be clever beyond cleverness?

I do hope to remain human.

“ I don't have balls, huh?
Alright ... ”

Speaking literally. Or so I hope..

Uh.
I am a she-deathbeast.

 

[§outh§tar]

I don't see why it should be a "mathematical impossibility". All I have to do is show that faith is not something circular. I already have it outlined in my mind, will take some to pour it into the right words. It will take some preparation.

The only problem, as I see it, is that some seem to think that faith is something otherworldly, unprovable, nebulous and such -- and hence the ideas of faith's circularity. It is basically these notions of faith that need to be unnebuled (I just made up that word).

Like I said in the other thread: you have faith in having faith. You have faith in having faith in what you have faith in. Ad nauseam.

That is pretty inescapable. We even have faith that faith is circular. You have faith in your faith that faith is non-circular.

Uh.
I am a she-deathbeast.

That explains a lot.

 

[water]

Like I said in the other thread: you have faith in having faith. You have faith in having faith in what you have faith in. Ad nauseam.

That is pretty inescapable. We even have faith that faith is circular. You have faith in your faith that faith is non-circular.

I will bend you, shake you, pinch you, squeeze you, anything -- but I will show that faith is not circular.
I don't know how yet, but I'll think of something.

That explains a lot.

Like what?

 

[§outh§tar]

I will bend you, shake you, pinch you, squeeze you, anything -- but I will show that faith is not circular.
I don't know how yet, but I'll think of something.

When you give up, we'll all be here to say, "I told you so." Always happens

Now hurry up and post it!

Like what?

I was being facetious. Again.

 

[water]

When you give up, we'll all be here to say, "I told you so." Always happens

Now hurry up and post it!

But what if my finding will be such that the argument will not be of the traditional verbal kind? What if my argument will be in me behaving a certain way?

Give me, and human creativity some credit!

I was being facetious. Again.

Yeah, and when the mother ship comes to save me, you're not invited!

 

[§outh§tar]

But what if my finding will be such that the argument will not be of the traditional verbal kind? What if my argument will be in me behaving a certain way?

Give me, and human creativity some credit!

I see you have already exhausted all possible avenues and conceded that the verbal approach will not work. Now to grasp at straws... and resort to behaving in a certain way (how is that demonstrable to us?).

And me, give credit? Have I ever been known to utter a positive thing? Give credit to human beings, the most hypocritical race ever known to man? I am not even sure there is a such thing as creativity apart from where we want to see it..

Remember always: As long as having faith in faith is a necessary requirement of faith, there is not a chance in the world for any such plan to achieve fruition. Guess what x^2 + y^2 makes?

Yeah, and when the mother ship comes to save me, you're not invited!

Aww. And I was planning to at least mention your name in passing when I receive the Nobel for my theory.

 

[duendy]

And me, give credit? Have I ever been known to utter a positive thing? Give credit to human beings, the most hypocritical race ever known to man?

d(((((( not ALL human beings, but the ones who decided to split off their heads from their bodies. Remember, the Native Americans were reported to have noticed whitemen 'spoke with forked tongues'

and i don't mean ALL whitemen neither