Animal rights?

[ndrs]

So wait..
Animals should also have freedom rights.. As in you can't buy them and they are allowed to roam free?

And gosh... Suffering can also be reduced by some good brainwashing. Pets are already well-brainwashed and don't suffer with being forced to stay in their cage. Only being happy with their owner's.

 

[Xev]

JamesR:

Humans are animals, in which case why shouldn't we do as they do and eat other animals.

Because it causes unnecessary suffering on a huge scale.

Does the lioness care about the zebra?

Humans are better than other animals, in which case why should we care about them?

You haven't even thought about this, have you? Humans are better than animals ... why, exactly? Humans are animals, Xev.

Don't take me out of context, it's disingenuous.

I do not believe the above. I've never claimed the above. However, there are two alternatives being offered in this discussion:

1: That humans are animals.

2: That humans are better than animals.

I summed up these alternatives, I did not advocate either. Please, no straw men.

Nobody who has thought about the situation would claim 2. However, my point is that even if 2 is valid, why should we then care about something so inferiour?

 

[James R]

Xev,

<i>Don't take me out of context, it's disingenuous.</i>

I'm sorry. I didn't realise you were mocking a previous point.

<i>However, there are two alternatives being offered in this discussion:

1: That humans are animals.
2: That humans are better than animals.</i>

Number 1 is pretty obviously correct. I won't bother discussing 2, since you seem to agree that it is false.

The point is that if humans are animals, and humans are granted certain rights to life and liberty, can you give a good reason for denying any such rights to animals?

Let's start with the right not to be factory farmed.

 

[Xev]

James R:

Sorry if I was a little bitchy in my previous post. Okay:

The point is that if humans are animals, and humans are granted certain rights to life and liberty, can you give a good reason for denying any such rights to animals?

I personally would like to see some improvement in the condition of farm animals - let's start with the New Zealanders - but not merely on humanitarian grounds. I think the conditions they are raised in are stimulating the evolution of antibiotic resistant bacteria. Purely on basis of pity, I agree with you more than I let on.

But that aside, humans are granted these rights because it is in our best interests to grant them. There's no such thing as an objective morality, thus all moral judgements come down to who has the power to impose them. So far, nobody has really bothered to do this for other animals.

Now, why should we?

 

[spookz]

ndrs

i would like to give your address to some of the radical animal rights groups.

cheers mate

 

[spookz]

Originally posted by Xev


But that aside, humans are granted these rights because it is in our best interests to grant them. There's no such thing as an objective morality, thus all moral judgements come down to who has the power to impose them. So far, nobody has really bothered to do this for other animals.

Now, why should we?

'cos deep down, under all that leather, latex and steel meshed clothing, you, my dear xev are a, coochy woochy wittle pwitty softie of a girl.

now go to the pound and adopt something

 

[platzapS]

."How can you justify spending your time on animals when there are so many people who need help?"

There are very serious problems in the world that deserve our attention; cruelty to animals is one of them. We should try to alleviate suffering wherever we can. Helping animals is not any more or less important than helping human beings—they are both important. Animal suffering and human suffering are interconnected

-peta.org FAQ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Helping animals is not any more or less important than helping human beings ?!

some of the information there is good, but a lot of it's just absurd!

 

[ndrs]

1: That humans are animals.
2: That humans are better than animals.

Number 1 is pretty obviously correct. I won't bother discussing 2, since you seem to agree that it is false.

The point is that if humans are animals, and humans are granted certain rights to life and liberty, can you give a good reason for denying any such rights to animals?

Let's start with the right not to be factory farmed.

OK.. 1 is correct, but is irrelevant since we should focus on the difference between humans and other animals. (we are made of the same matter as dust, does that make dust something special?)
2 maybe should be phrased as: Humans are better than _other_ animals.
Some people wouldn't agree even with that. People definetly are more intelligent than other animals. That has caused us to survive better. So we way more power people than other animals. Why go back against evolution?

 

[ndrs]

Anyways why should be alleviate suffering?

 

[James R]

Why should we alleviate suffering?

Don't you think that is a worthy aim for a being with a moral sense?

 

[Xev]

James R please
Define what "moral sense"
Is and why we

Should obey
This "moral sense" you
Say we have?

 

[Zero]

Mmm...cows don't make Gothic churches...but termites do build towers...

I don't exactly see your point here. Most animals don't make creative works due to the level of intelligence they have. Humans are merely intelligent animals. And extrEMEly vicious animals, at that.

 

[Xev]

Zero your point?
Humans are animals
Of course like duh

We are simply the
Animals that control
Our planet vae victis

 

[Zero]

I think I lost my train of thought...but yeah...we seem to agree.

 

[Xev]

My shitty haiku
Destroy Zero's thoughts
Ha ha ha ha ha

 

[Zero]

I thought you were arguing that humans were different animals because of the Gothic church thing...was I mistaken? What did you mean by that?

 

[Avatar]

"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and buildings and start wars etc...and all that dolphins do is swim in the water, eat fish and play around. Dolphins believe that they are smarter for exactly the same reasons."

Douglas Adams

 

[James R]

Xev,

By "moral sense" I mean humans make a distinction between acts which are considered "good" and "bad", "right" and "wrong". We categorise actions this way.

We act according to our moral systems because it is impossible for a human being to do otherwise (since we all have a moral sense). Of course, some moral systems are more defensible than others...

 

[Lady]

** This is a good topic, first off, I do believe animals are more intelligent and loving than we give them credit for. In my neck of the woods the pit bulls,exspecially, are befriended by humans than forced to fight each other to the death. The winnings usually go towards Beer and a ounce of weed.

 

[pumpkinsaren'torange]

ok. animals have SOME rights, but, humans have the right-of-way.