An inconvenient truth

Photizo said:
... http://takimag.com/article/the_week_that_perished_december_8_2014#axzz3LTCkhCka ...

http://takimag.com/article/no_exit_john_derbyshire#axzz3LTCkhCka

http://web.archive.org/web/20110629171612/http:/www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/taboos/mhhart01.html
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And here we go again..

White supremacist rubbish from white supremacist rubbish sites braying for racial segregation and racial partitioning like an ass...

Priming that cross for a good burning this coming weekend, photizo?
 
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marquis said:
At what point is the fact that the population are being educated to have less respect for law enforcement become relevant?
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When somebody is deciding whether or not to hold a policeman accountable for seriously screwing up their job in public, making the point that such screwing up is not normal or expected, would be one possible point.

marquis said:
Those were the days when a police officer was seen as a community member, not as an armed assassin waiting for the opportunity to shoot someone, and in dire need of some serious training.

Isn't it completely marvellous that rhetoric can change perception so completely
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There have never been any days when the white police overseeing the black population of segregated America were seen as community members. And rhetoric was not the origin of black people's perceptions of the police charged with keeping them in their place.

Look at it this way: Wilson, like many of his fellow officers in the region, was an affirmative action hire - he got the job, in preference to the dozens of better qualified black women and more able black men of the region, because he was white and male.
 
iceaura said:
That is a fact. That's one of the differences between a rigged hearing like this and a trial - Wilson was in no danger of self-imcrimination, as he would have been at a trial.
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No, that's a falsehood. Not only was he at risk of contradicting himself in front of the grand jury, he was also at risk of having his testimony used against him if his case went to trial.

As I pointed out to you earlier, you obviously don't know what a grand jury hearing is for. No: cross examination of witnesses even, much less defendants, is not something a grand jury member is expected to do or even be able to do. They don't even see the defendant, usually.
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But they did see the defendant on the occasion we are discussing, and they *did* question him quite rigorously. Try to keep up.

What I'm convinced of is the appearance of Officer Wilson's guilt, of some degree.
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Sorry, but nobody cares what you think. Random individuals with a chip on their shoulder don't get to decide how justice is administered. If a grand jury can't even find probable cause, the taxpayers money shouldn't be wasted on a trial where the prosecution has to prove guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.

There was no "answer" provided by any judicial process.
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A grand jury found, after hearing from the prosecutor and grilling Wilson, that there was no probable cause to charge him with any crime. Just because you don't like the answer provided doesn't mean that one wasn't given. My advice? Deal with it. Donate some money to the grieving family if you really care that much.

Bells said:
You weren't even here then, so you don't really know what happened back then, just as you do not know of any of my correspondence with the parties involved in that particular discussion or other discussions going on at the same time.
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Oh for goodness sakes, this is a discussion forum open to the public, where said discussions are recorded for posterity. Your correspondence with the parties involved is a matter of public record, so don't try and pretend otherwise.
 
Bells said:
Worse still is the fact that people are having to change Wilson's testimony and his police report to make it fit the evidence, because it does not fit otherwise. Wilson was either lying under oath and in his police report or he is grossly incompetent and cannot tell if someone is running or not and does not understand distance or know how to measure it. We need to keep in mind that sound analysis of the shooting place Wilson as being stationary when during the whole thing. So no to Capracus, it still does not match up.
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From the St. Louis County Police Department interview:

Aug 10, 2014

P. 10
Wilson: I was yelling at him to stop and get on the ground. He kept running and then eventually he stopped in this area somewhere. When he stopped, he turned, looked at me, made like a [grunting] noise and had the most intense aggressive face I've ever seen on a person. When he looked at me, he then did like the hop ... you know like people do to start running ... During his first stride, he took his right hand put it under his shirt and into his waistband. And I ordered him to stop and get on the ground again. He didn't; I fired, a, multiple shots. After I fired the multiple shots I paused for a second, yelled at him to get on the ground again, he was still in the same state. Still charging hands still in his waistband, hadn't slowed down. I fired another set of shots. Same thing, still running at me hadn't slowed down, hands still in his waistband. He gets about 8 to 10 feet away, and he's still coming at me in the same way. I fired more shots. One of those, however many of them hit on him in the head and he went down right there ... I never touched him."

P. 12
Wilson: I didn’t run as far as him. I stopped and I gave our self at least a 20-foot gap between me and him. Because when he stopped running, I stopped running. He had already had a head start on me and I maintained that distance whenever he stopped. So, I don’t know the exact. I can’t give you a num. . .a number.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/newsgr...ets/interviews/interview-po-darren-wilson.pdf

The day after the shooting during his interview with the detective, Wilson stated that he began firing as Brown began to run at him, when he appeared to be reaching into his waistband, essentially a stride or two from where he turned around some 48 ft from where he was killed. Wilson states he kept at least a 20 ft gap between he and Brown, a witness put Wilson 30 ft from Brown when he first fired, and a spent casing was found 33 ft from where Brown turned to run. Both of these estimates could fall within a 12 ft ejection radius of the spent casing.

We found that by manipulating a gun as officers actually do in real shooting situations, the placement of ejected shell casings changed across a broad range--from 12 feet to a shooter’s right rear to 12 feet to his left front, a total span of 24 feet,” Lewinski says.


http://www.policeone.com/columnists/charles-remsberg/articles/116478-findings-are-now-firm-ejected-shell-casings-cant-reliably-tell-much-about-a-shooters-location
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The farthest spent casing was located 56 ft away from Brown’s turning point, and 8 feet from where he was killed. So if Wilson began firing at 30 ft from the turn and ended firing 56 ft back, it means he backpedaled for 26 ft, and Brown rushed him for 48 Ft.


From the detective interview:

P. 13
Detective: What was, what was that distance. . . and I know we’re-we’re not talking Exact but did you maintain that distance or did it get closer?


Wilson: A, I did not maintain it. It did get closer but not at the rate of which it could’ve if I had stood still. I was backing up. When he started running, I started backing up after the first round of shots and he still hadn’t gone down and was still coming just as fast as he was, I backed up at a faster rate. The entire time I was going backwards.


Detective: How far do you think you were backing up?


Wilson: I probably backed up at least ten feet in the process.


Detective: Okay. And, how far do you think he went from the time that he stopped, a, and turned around until the time that he went, that he went down to the ground?


Wilson: At least 15.


Detective: Fifteen?


Wilson: Feet, at least.


Detective: Okay. Alright.


Wilson: Because if I would’ve stayed where I had stopped and he had, like where we originally started at that point. If I would’ve stayed he would’ve been on me.


Clearly Wilson’s perception of distance was inconsistent during the event, though not surprising considering the stress he was under at the time. He though he moved 10 ft, but the physical evidence and witness testimony suggests 26 ft. He puts Brown's distance from the turn at 15 ft, but physical evidence and witness testimony say 48 ft. Ridicule a man under pressure if you must, but the greater actual distances make his story more credible, not less.



 
Capracus said:

Clearly Wilson’s perception of distance was inconsistent during the event, though not surprising considering the stress he was under at the time. He though he moved 10 ft, but the physical evidence and witness testimony suggests 26 ft. He puts Brown's distance from the turn at 15 ft, but physical evidence and witness testimony say 48 ft. Ridicule a man under pressure if you must, but the greater actual distances make his story more credible, not less.
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You are clearly mistaken.

I am not ridiculing him.

I am ridiculing those who feel the need to alter his testimony, his declaration to the police, to literally put words in his mouth, to the point of just about declaring him him incompetent (I mean, you are expecting people to buy that he, a police officer, cannot tell the difference between 10ft and 26ft and between 15ft and 48ft?) to make it fit with the physical evidence.

Worse still, you actually expect people to believe that Wilson ran backwards (as he testified he backpedaled) after he had fired the first lot of shots at the advancing Brown, and that he ran 26 feet backwards, while holding a gun pointed at Brown and that he covered that distance backwards in 3 seconds? And not just that, but that in those 3 seconds, from what you linked, he started backing up slowly and then accelerated to cover 26 feet..

Wilson: A, I did not maintain it. It did get closer but not at the rate of which it could’ve if I had stood still. I was backing up. When he started running, I started backing up after the first round of shots and he still hadn’t gone down and was still coming just as fast as he was, I backed up at a faster rate. The entire time I was going backwards.​

It's pretty bad when people such as yourself and others are expecting people to believe that he cannot tell the difference between 15 feet and 48 feet. That is a whopping 33 feet difference. Not one or two. Not even 10 feet difference. But 33 feet difference. And then to expect that someone could run backwards while pointing a gun at someone and cover 26 feet while running backwards in 3 seconds...

If it was foggy, raining, there was a blanket of smoke in his way, a paper bag on his head, a giant lord of the rings type eagle swooped in and attacked his face at that time, then perhaps we could excuse or understand his thinking 48 feet away was actually 15 feet away. But to see people such as yourself and others going to such lengths, to the point of rewriting his testimony, because the evidence clearly does not fit his testimony and the hours of testimony he presented, nor does it remotely fit the police report filed after he was interviewed on the day of the shooting, then really, are you for real?

If someone had not died, it would be hysterically funny.
 
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tali said:
But they did see the defendant on the occasion we are discussing, and they *did* question him quite rigorously. Try to keep up.
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No, they did not "question him rigorously" - as has been explained to you numerous times, that is not even possible. Grand juries are ordinary citizens without preparation time or resources. They are incapable of cross examining witnesses or defendants in a major case. That is one reason we have trials, rather than merely holding grand jury hearings, in the first place.

tali said:
What I'm convinced of is the appearance of Officer Wilson's guilt, of some degree.
Sorry, but nobody cares what you think.
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I was responding to your going out of your way to make false claims about what I think. I was correcting you, because you made such a big deal out of it and were getting it wrong. If you don't care, don't bother doing that, and save everybody the trouble of correcting you.

capracus said:
Wilson: A, I did not maintain it. It did get closer but not at the rate of which it could’ve if I had stood still. I was backing up. When he started running, I started backing up after the first round of shots and he still hadn’t gone down and was still coming just as fast as he was, I backed up at a faster rate. The entire time I was going backwards.

Detective: How far do you think you were backing up?

Wilson: I probably backed up at least ten feet in the process.
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For the last time, we hope, let's post this:

The analysis of the gunshot recording produces the following specific, explicit, definite, and clear, finding: all ten gunshots came from within a circle one meter in diameter.

No physical evidence clearly conflicts with that gunshot analysis. *

That conflicts with Wilson's testimony. The conflict is significant and bears directly on Wilson's guilt or innocence.**

We need a trial. Until we have a trial, Wilson appears to be lying in that and sefveral other matters, and guilty. Surely we can agree on that simple and obvious fact of appearance?

* Like this: "The farthest spent casing was located 56 ft away from Brown’s turning point, and 8 feet from where he was killed. So if Wilson began firing at 30 ft from the turn and ended firing 56 ft back, it means he backpedaled for 26 ft, and Brown rushed him for 48 Ft." That would have Wilson firing his most accurate shots while backpedaling at about the same speed Brown was "charging" - about 4 mph - and firing every one of the final four shots while both were at full speed; it also presumes none of the casings rolled or bounced down hill as they appear to have in the public diagrams, and none of them were launched farther due to Wilson's rapid backpedaling.

Barring careful examination, at a trial, the physical evidence of the gunshot analysis is far more credible than such unlikely speculation.

** Say: Wilson might have been retailing a panic-addled perception of Brown covering a gunshot wound with one hand while attempting to charge him in desperation, looming larger than life, and the backpedaling after the final shot or before the first one confused in the timeline. So he would be honest but befuddled. That would mitigate his guilt, and transfer much blame to his employers and training.
 
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Captain Kremmen said:
Are you saying he is bigoted?
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The links he has been posting, his arguments about "the blacks", his whining that we have a "problem" because we do not share his view of blacks in society, his mention of how a separation is needed.. And now posting several links about why whites and blacks need to be segregated by State no less, so that whites get their own country and blacks get their own country and those who are inbetween black and white in colour get their own country also.. What do you think the answer to your question actually is?
 
Photizo said:
When will you people start taking to the streets for genuine, justifiable reasons?
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You think that riots in the streets will save the polar bears??? They'll all be dead within a century or two anyway, except for a pathetic population held in zoos, due to habitat loss as the planet inexorably warms.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
You think that riots in the streets will save the polar bears??? They'll all be dead within a century or two anyway, except for a pathetic population held in zoos, due to habitat loss as the planet inexorably warms.
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Err he's not talking about polar bears. His links are actually about white supremacism and the apparent awful 'culture' of black Americans and all the other racist stereotypes people who are into the white hoods and burning crosses obsess over.. It's a follow on from his obsession for racial segregation and the like that he's been braying about throughout this thread..
 
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When will you people start taking to the streets for genuine, justifiable reasons?
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You better hope nobody ever does - because you don't have enough guns in your house to handle the size of the mob that is justified in pretty much anything they do to you, simply in self defense.
 
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