an idea of perpetual energy, tell me what you think

U

Urson

Registered Member
I know this isn't very exact on details but here it goes.
Take an hourglass about 5ft tall, place a paddlewheel, connected to a generator on either side. Place the paddlewheel in the center of the hourglass, where is thinnest. Then connect the generators to a water pump at the bottom of the hourglass. Sink the hourglass, just below the waterline of a large body of water. The water should fill the top section, fall to the bottom section, thus striking the paddlewheel, making it turn. The paddlewheel turns the generators, producing electricity, powering the water pump at the bottom of the hourglass, which pumps the water out of the bottom section, back into the large body of water. This would continue becuase the top would never run out of water to power the paddlewheel which should continue to turn and produce electricity to power the pump at the bottom.

Tell me, what do you all think of this?
 
It will always take more energy to pump the water up above the paddle wheel than you will be able to get out of the action of the falling water.
 
Clarafication

The water isn't pumped up past the paddlewheel, it's simply pumped out of the bottom, since the hourglass is submerged just below the waterline of the larger body of water, there is no need to pump the water up, just out.
 
Still, the energy necessary to pump water out of the container would always be more than the energy that you could get when the container refills its self. This is a basic principle of thermodynamics.
 
Also, there is lots of energy loss in this system. The energy of the falling water used to turn the turbine is only partially converted to electricity to run the pump. The rest is lost in friction in the turbine bearings and between the various walls of the hourglass and the water. Turbulence factors also come into play, along with the inbuilt losses in the generator itself.

You can't beat the second law of thermodynamics.
 
it cant work, sorry bubba


but if we were able to create some sort of perpetual energy, i feel it will happen in space
we still have alot to learn about the rules of gravity/no gravity

i for one am interested on the effects of electricy in space

or heres a thinker
in space, if you had a twisty tube, had the tube in say a shape of a "W" with both ends open and you put some water in one end and you gave it a little bit of force, will it go all the way thur the tube? will the water eventually settle in one area from lack of momentum, or will it slowly disperse within the confines of the tube (sticking to the inside of the tubes walls or whatnot)


bit hard to explain what i mean, but if you apply the idea to Ursons idea here, we might be getting somewhere :p
 
Er, depends. What's the diameter of the tube? How do you give it some momentum, by accelerating the tube? Can't see how else to do it otherwise, without using pressure from a gas, in which case both ends aren't open. So it depends on the diameter of the tube, the impulse given to the tube, and whether that's enough energy to overcome the surface tension of the water clinging to the tube which is where you experience friction and energy loss.

Ultimately, the water would evaporate, of course, and you'd end up with nothing in your tube.
 
Change the question into this:
How can someone make a closed environment (a huge one, for sure) so that no energy is radiated to or absorbed from the outside? This will of course lead to perpetual energy, or in different term, energy recycling.
 
you know you could just say "get a nuclear power plan, which then uses electricity yto power robots which upkeep the plant"
 
They say a perpetual motion mahcine is impossible due to thermodynamics, but dont we have an unlimited source of energy in gravety? There is alwayse energy to pull something towards the earth right? If only somone could make a machine that capitolizes on that without having to produce energy to lift stuff back up against gravity, then we would really get somewhere.
 
I know this may sound stupid, but what about a pipeline running through crust of the planet, when liquid is pulled by gravity through the tube, might it's momentum be used to propell it farther into the tube and then gravity would pull it back (the pipeline would be almost parallel to the crust, giving just enough angle to allow the process to continue infinately?
 
Urson

what you are proposing in genral has a huge benefit for current energy production on the basic core principals although the biggest draw back is the energy loss through the type of conductors and motors involved in storage
this aplys in a vacume aswell...
as soon as you want to draw the energy out for use then you are loosing it in some form
soo
the more useful concept to focus on is low energy expense production and transfer methods

RE: water in a vacum tube...
how many molecules do you think there is in a glass of water
newtons law would apply to each and every molecule ...


groove on :)
 
Everyone remember this....thermodyamics always prevails. Even if a system has a huge potential connected to it (the earth tube example), you're still draining energy off of the system (earth) in the form of momentum.
 
Scientists,
Urson's original Idea was close to sound. However, it would be slightly inefficeint due to friction. Now, the answer is very simple; if the energy output is greater than the amount of energy being produced, simply multiply the source. let me explain. If you were to extend the middle section of the hour glass, and use 8 generators, connected to 8 paddle wheels all using the same stream of water to spin, you would get 8 times the power, thus 8 times the electricity, thus a small water pump at the bottom would be like nothing. think about that for a little.
 
Eight generators won't supply eight times as much electricity from the same stream of water. Neither would a generator eight times as big.
The amount of energy extracted depends only on the gravitational potential energy in the stream of water and the efficiency of the generator(s).

Urson's original idea would work only if the tides were used to refill the upper chamber (and it's been done).
 
curioucity said:
How can someone make a closed environment (a huge one, for sure) so that no energy is radiated to or absorbed from the outside? This will of course lead to perpetual energy, or in different term, energy recycling.
Click to expand...

They call those universes. Create one and you instantly solve the age-old question of whether god exists... it would be you :cool:
 
What about this:

Imagine a bell jar with all the air evacuated, forming a almost perfect vacuum.
Inside there is a pendulum suspended by magnetic forces at the pivots, ie the pivots are not touching anything.

You could make a non-contact pivot by magnetizing a hollow rod. Now, magnetize a solid rod. Slot the solid rod into the hollow rod such that similar poles are together. If held horizontal, the solid rod should be floating within the hollow rod.

Now give the pendulum a push. What are the sources of energy leakage from this system?
 
Even if your magnetic bearing has 0% loss (and I'm not sure that it does), you can only get out of the pendulum what you put into it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top