An argument for the creation of a new sub forum

[scott3x]

Originally Posted by Ganymede

Scott, the only thing the spooks will do is attack your character, not the veracity of your statements. It's pointless to make another sub-forum. The best thing we can do is learn more about the truth, and we'll accomplish that by sharing ideas with like minded people who can add to our base of knowledge.

Anybody else see the irony in this statement?

"The only thing the spooks will do is attack your character".

First of Ganymede, I don't agree with you on the idea that a sub-forum would be pointless. I think the rest of my post will explain why. Another thing: I think Kenny has a point. I'll be frank; there was a point when I thought Kenny and perhaps others were indeed on the government payroll to spread disinformation. But I kept on reading and responding to him and others and I came to the conclusion that he and perhaps everyone else I've been responding to aren't. A hundred tiny clues kept pointing to a different conclusion. So in this sense, I think Kenny is right; you're subtly attacking his character by assuming he's a spook and forgetting about his points. I know that Kenny has a tendency of being overly rude and I can understand if that has gotten you to decide that it's better to ignore him. In my particular case, however, I guess I'm still too interested in his counters to stop responding. Who knows, one day I may get tired, but that hasn't happened yet. All of this doesn't mean that I don't mind sharing information with like minded individuals. I have listened to what you and others in the truther camp have to say and will continue to do so, considering myself to be in said camp. However, I must say one thing; preaching to the choir is easy. There's much less need to hone your arguments when doing so, as people in that camp are already convinced that 9/11 was an inside job; there may be slightly differing views as to what happened exactly (how much of an inside job was it; let it happen, made it happen, etc.), but it's a lot easier to argue with them then it is to argue with people who believe the official story. So while it's good to have one's spirits boosted by people who believe in what you say, I also believe that adversity really can make you stronger and I don't want to let that go.

Now as to the sources of the information of Kenny and others in his camp, that's another matter entirely. It's well known that certain individuals within NIST, for instance, were given a fair amount of money to come up with government reports and I believe it stands to reason that they'd say what certain high up government officials wanted them to, seeing as the such officials chose the people who'd do it. So they'd skew computer models and do whatever it took to ensure that those high up officials stance would be supported. they're simply relying on authority figures. I believe that people like KennyJC and others here have come to trust authority; the authority as truth, rather then truth as the authority.

 

[KennyJC]

I'll be frank; there was a point when I thought Kenny and perhaps others were indeed on the government payroll to spread disinformation.

I can not even begin to imagine why anybody would think that is a realistic possibility. I think this goes very far in explaining your tin hatted paranoia.

It's well known that certain individuals within NIST, for instance, were given a fair amount of money to come up with government reports and I believe it stands to reason that they'd say what certain high up government officials wanted them to.

That does NOT stand to reason. I think it's common knowledge they were paid to do their job - what do you expect? You have no proof that they were given under the table cash to deliberately falsify the evidence. If they did that, they would risk being criticized by their peers worldwide from now and long into the future.

 

[scott3x]

Originally Posted by scott3x

I'll be frank; there was a point when I thought Kenny and perhaps others were indeed on the government payroll to spread disinformation.

I can not even begin to imagine why anybody would think that is a realistic possibility. I think this goes very far in explaining your tin hatted paranoia.

To me it seems clear that 9/11 was an inside job. I feel there is tons of evidence to support this. To see someone so consistently reject almost all of it got me thinking that perhaps there was a reason other then simple disbelief. But I have seen you, not only in this forum, but on JREF asking for information to refute claims made in this forum, as well as on loose change, kamikaze style, and to tell you the honest truth, it just doesn't strike me as the type of tactics that someone on the government payroll would use. Certain NIST individuals, on the other hand, are another matter entirely.

It's well known that certain individuals within NIST, for instance, were given a fair amount of money to come up with government reports and I believe it stands to reason that they'd say what certain high up government officials wanted them to.

That does NOT stand to reason. I think it's common knowledge they were paid to do their job - what do you expect?

I expect that the people in charge of the investigation will try to say things that the people who hired them would like them to say. It's well known that the 9/11 commission was headed by someone who was real close with the bush administration and that literally nothing could be put in the report that wasn't approved by everyone (including said bush administration buddy). It stands to reason that they would do the same in terms of the head of the NIST investigation.

You have no proof that they were given under the table cash to deliberately falsify the evidence.

Very true.

If they did that, they would risk being criticized by their peers worldwide from now and long into the future.

Yes, but that's a very big if, now, isn't it? The Warren Comission did much the same thing. Someone said (I forget who): what will happen if people actually read this report? To which there was a reply:
"The American people don't read".

That is, ofcourse, not entirely true. But a lot of people prefer getting their reports from t.v. or at most from one of the glossy weekly or monthly magazines (Popular Mechanics, anyone?), although this is thankfully lessening due to the internet's interactivity.

 

[MacGyver1968]

So you really think the government would pay people to go around to a message board like this one, just to spread dis-information?

Wow...

 

[KennyJC]

To me it seems clear that 9/11 was an inside job. I feel there is tons of evidence to support this. To see someone so consistently reject almost all of it got me thinking that perhaps there was a reason other then simple disbelief. But I have seen you, not only in this forum, but on JREF asking for information to refute claims made in this forum, as well as on loose change, kamikaze style, and to tell you the honest truth, it just doesn't strike me as the type of tactics that someone on the government payroll would use. Certain NIST individuals, on the other hand, are another matter entirely.

I made one appeal for help on the JREF forum as I wasn't having any luck with google on whether or not Steven Jones could distinguish elements from compounds. This turned out to be a moot point since you and headspin eventually agreed that he couldn't detect compounds like barium nitrate. Thus it was quite ironic that you managed to debunk yourselves without me even having to lift a finger.

I expect that the people in charge of the investigation will try to say things that the people who hired them would like them to say. It's well known that the 9/11 commission was headed by someone who was real close with the bush administration and that literally nothing could be put in the report that wasn't approved by everyone (including said bush administration buddy). It stands to reason that they would do the same in terms of the head of the NIST investigation.

Even though civil engineers and demolition experts worldwide never carried out an investigation to the depth that NIST carried out, it is still the consensus amongst all these experts (even ones not tied to the American government) that fire weakened the steel which initiated the collapse.

If NIST said one thing, and the civil engineering community said another thing, THEN I would have suspicions that the NIST report contained falsified evidence.

Yes, but that's a very big if, now, isn't it? The Warren Comission did much the same thing. Someone said (I forget who): what will happen if people actually read this report? To which there was a reply:
"The American people don't read".

That is, ofcourse, not entirely true. But a lot of people prefer getting their reports from t.v. or at most from one of the glossy weekly or monthly magazines (Popular Mechanics, anyone?), although this is thankfully lessening due to the internet's interactivity.

The American public and the civil engineering community are two completely different entities. It's safe to assume that civil engineers read. I think they would have a professional interest in what caused the collapse of these towers, and if the NIST report was balatanty falsified, then there'd be more conflict. As it happens, all you got is a handful of websites subscribed to by a handful of "experts" with questionable credentials. You have failed to convince me that there is a conflict in the civil engineering community or the demolition community about how the WTC collapsed.

 

[KennyJC]

So you really think the government would pay people to go around to a message board like this one, just to spread dis-information?

Wow...

Troofers have quite an imagination...

 

[Ganymede]

So you really think the government would pay people to go around to a message board like this one, just to spread dis-information?

Wow...

How else can you explain the reason why someone would spend day after day, week after week, month after month, regurgitating the same talking points, that are almost identical to the same talking points that are repeated by Government agents each and everyday. Kenny JC for instance, is supposedly a Britt, but he spends day after day, week after week, month after month, posting in the same topic, rebutting people who he claims are complete wackjobs. It's obvious that he doesn't have a civilian job because he posts in this forum throughout all hours of the day and night.

If someone were to make a post saying that our Planet was ruled by the Lord of the Sith, would you spend day after day, week after week, month after month rebutting their opinions? Or would you state the obvious and move on? Kenny JC has wasted countless hours of his life, rebutting people who he alleges are completely fucking crazy. Would you spend day after day, week after week, month after month, trying to convince Charles Manson that he isn't Jesus Christ? That's the equivalent to what Kenny JC has done on this topic. Look at his posting history, he spends all of this life in this forum, the only explanation for such madness is that he's being paid to do it.

 

[KennyJC]

How else can you explain the reason why someone would spend day after day, week after week, month after month, regurgitating the same talking points, that are almost identical to the same talking points that are repeated by Government agents each and everyday. Kenny JC for instance, is supposedly a Britt, but he spends day after day, week after week, month after month, posting in the same topic, rebutting people who he claims are complete wackjobs. It's obvious that he doesn't have a civilian job because he posts in this forum throughout all hours of the day and night.

If someone were to make a post saying that our Planet was ruled by the Lord of the Sith, would you spend day after day, week after week, month after month rebutting their opinions? Or would you state the obvious and move on? Kenny JC has wasted countless hours of his life, rebutting people who he alleges are completely fucking crazy. Would you spend day after day, week after week, month after month, trying to convince Charles Manson that he isn't Jesus Christ? That's the equivalent to what Kenny JC has done on this topic. Look at his posting history, he spends all of this life in this forum, the only explanation for such madness is that he's being paid to do it.

Actually I am a brit who has moved to the US in April this year. It's only been a month since I've been legally allowed to work and I am still looking.

That would account for posting here day and night. However, despite that, I probably don't spend much more than an hour a day on the forum. If the tin hatters are quiet I don't spend much time here at all.

Looking at my posting history you can see I spent most of my time in the religion forum. Why? It is fucking stupid and has a dangerous impact in the society that I live in. So then 9/11 troofers caught my attention, and to be honest, that's not as dangerous as religion (as troofism is a minority group in decline), but equally as stupid and the attraction for me is that it can be debunked. Thereby I am doing my bit for the goal of an intelligent and rational society.

No matter how you try to justify it, believing that I'm a government agent is pretty damn hilarious.