Americans, should the First Amendment protect "hate" groups?

[Thoreau]

Why? And if you feel so, why don't you write your Congressman to propose a Constitutional Amendment to do so?

Why?

Because too many people use religion to justify the most inhuman and cruel acts to other people.

I don't write a letter because I know something like that would never happen, atleast not in America.

 

[spidergoat]

Let me rephrase that... there should be a defined line between hate speech and free speech when it comes to religion.

There can be none. Ever read the OT? God hates everything from adultery to shellfish! Religious freedom is especially protected in the US.

 

[Thoreau]

Religious freedom is especially protected in the US.

I know. Sad isn't it? :bawl:

 

[Why?]

I could claim fresh air is the reason I killed you, because after all, without fresh air I would die and wouldn't be able to kill you. People falsely claiming religion as their motivation for killing others is simply the work of charlatans, deceivers and manipulators. Don't blame religion for these acts.

 

[spidergoat]

I know. Sad isn't it? :bawl:

No, it's freaking awesome.

 

[Thoreau]

I could claim fresh air is the reason I killed you, because after all, without fresh air I would die and wouldn't be able to kill you. People falsely claiming religion as their motivation for killing others is simply the work of charlatans, deceivers and manipulators. Don't blame religion for these acts.

I don't blame religion, I blame the people who interpret religion for thier own personal agenda's.

EDIT: ... for the oppression of others.

 

[Why?]

Then why limit religious speech? Is it wrong of any religion to be intolerant? Wasn't God intolerant of the Eygptians? Of the Hitites? Of the Bablyonians?

 

[Thoreau]

Then why limit religious speech? Is it wrong of any religion to be intolerant? Wasn't God intolerant of the Eygptians? Of the Hitites? Of the Bablyonians?

Its a book not proven as fact.

Goes back to the saying: Do not believe everything you read.

 

[Why?]

Oh, so we can't even have religion now, because it's not a proven fact? So "In God We Trust" should be removed from our coins?

 

[Thoreau]

Oh, so we can't even have religion now, because it's not a proven fact? So "In God We Trust" should be removed from our coins?

Sigh... I think religion should be kept PERSONAL. Anyone can believe anything they want. But they is there own PERSONAL belief and should be kept so. And yes, I believe that we should remove that phrase because America is a nation of freedom, or alteast supposed to be. Not everyone believes in God and not everyone believe in the same interpretaion of God.

Seperation of Church and state

 

[spidergoat]

So, would you make it illegal for religious people to knock on your door and express their wish that you join their religion?

 

[Why?]

So, keep your religion to yourself? Well, I think God has a problem with that. Go tell it on the Mountain! Freedom of religion - not Freedom from religion.

 

[Thoreau]

So, would you make it illegal for religious people to knock on your door and express their wish that you join their religion?

They can knock on my door all they want because I can close my door all I want.

 

[Why?]

The problem is, who defines hate? Better to only limit free speech for inciting violence or the overthrow of the government.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Banning hate groups will not lead to banning religion. It does not work that way, you seemed to have reached what is called a "Grey beard" Fallibilty. What happens doesn't always trigger a domino effect.

I may have a grey beard but I'm still infallible. Many religions are hate groups! There's an Islamic school right across the river in suburban Virginia, funded by King George II's gay hand-holding boyfriends, the Saudi Royal family, that refused to allow the state board of education to review its textbooks. They're full of references to Christians as "evil" and of commands to hate them. They finally tore the pages out before the board was able to get their hands on a copy to display on TV news.

Many Americans hate gays because homophobia is a common instinct among heterosexual men. But many American Christians use their bible as an excuse to preach hatred of gays.

all i am going to say is hate is not a right

Hmmm. I remember Homer Simpson asking, "What kind of a country is this, when I can only hate a man if he's white?"

Yes. Hate-groups free speech should be protected. It provides a few benefits: 3) The moment such a group tries to expand their influence beyond speech they get punished by the law with media attention.

In the U.S. we have some very strong laws against "conspiracy." They were originally enacted and enforced to prosecute Mafia mobsters for planning crimes that they were too clever to be caught performing. Since then they have been used for other purposes. In a fictional story on a TV show, a Muslim man was convicted of conspiracy to commit murder, after he sent his unfaithful American wife to visit his family in Iran, where they murdered her as punishment for infidelity and got away with it. This could easily happen in real life, especially these days when America's tolerance for Islam and especially Sharia is at an all-time low.

Why do you think this stuff is illegal in so many countries? In Germany and Russia, it is absolutly illegal to wear the swastika, say "Heil Hitler," or march in Nazi rallies.

And therefore the Holocaust deniers went off to have a festival in Tehran, where they never encountered protesters. I think it would have been much better to hold it in Berlin or Prague, where they would have been constantly picketed by the children of Holocaust victims.

Nazi rallys have been held in America, and thousands of people turn out to throw tomatoes at them and shout obsenities. It's good for these assholes to know that hatred flows in both directions.

I personally believe that freedom of speech (FoS) should have its limits. FoS is currently used as an excuse to do the most obscene and vulgar acts. For example... Recently the Westborough Baptist Church, yes, the ones that picket at the funerals of veterans, anyways, they started picketing at college campuses holding large billboards of pictures of dead babies... gruesom pictures of blood and gore. I understand that they want to get thier message across, but I also think that goes too far.

It's pathetic that the government can censor radio shows, when all you gotta do if you don't like it is turn the bloody thing off, but they allow religious people to do practically anything they want. As I say, many of the fringe cults of Christianity and Islam are little more than hate groups who get satisfaction out of making the people they hate miserable.

It goes much further than just that. They've attempted to insinuate riots, they've yelled and cursed at children on the streets, they've trespassed more times than I can count, they've violated privacy rights and they promote hatred. These guys are no better than Al Queda.

Well hey there I believe in a good spot of hyperbole as much as the next American, but these guys are not even close to Al Qaeda in badness. Sorry.

Then why limit religious speech? Is it wrong of any religion to be intolerant? Wasn't God intolerant of the Egyptians? Of the Hittites? Of the Bablyonians?

Yes, by today's generally accepted standards, it is indeed wrong of any religion to preach intolerance. If they believe their god commands them to do this then their god is an asshole and so are they.

As I say, many of the cults of Abraham are not-so-well-disguised hate groups.

 

[spidergoat]

So what? In a free country, you are free to hate as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of others. No one has a right not to be hated.

 

[Tiassa]

These guys are no better than Al Queda.

Actually, they're a little bit lower. At least Al Qaeda has the stones to acknowledge the fight they're in. Phelps and friends seem to skulk around making excuses for themselves.

One note, though: the charge about the American flag is crap. It's an example of what's wrong with arbitrary free-speech limitations. I agree, in principle, that the woman is abusing her kid, but we're the United States of America. The flag will do just fine, no matter who stomps on it.

 

[Thoreau]

So what? In a free country, you are free to hate as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of others. No one has a right not to be hated.

There is no such thing as a free country in this entire world. Many people are still denied the most basic rights as a human being. Seriously. Gay people still can't marry the person they love, we get taxed to death, we are always hearing rules and laws telling us what we can and cannot do, etc etc etc...

Governments exist in order to control thier people.

As long as government exists, freedom does not.

 

[Tiassa]

Governments exist in order to control thier people

That's a grim view of the social contract, and contradictory to the principles of the founding of the United States of America. That things might look as you describe them, though, is understandable. The people have not done much to protect or enforce their stake in the contract.

 

[Baron Max]

That's a grim view of the social contract, and contradictory to the principles of the founding of the United States of America. That things might look as you describe them, though, is understandable. The people have not done much to protect or enforce their stake in the contract.

What an odd thing to say from someone who uses his powers of infractions, and the threat of banishment, to control this very discussion forum.

Tiassa, you and I both know that with any group of humans, there must be some degree of control. Idealistic myths of freedom are just exactly that ....idealistic myths. Nothimg more, nothing less.

Baron Max