Americans Executed

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Mod Hat - About ten minutes

Willy said:

Our southern boarders would not need so much protection if the majority of Mexicans were not so violent and unintelligent.
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Willy, you have about ten minutes to provide the statistics that you must necessarily have on hand in order to make such a claim.

• The July, 2007 estimated population of Mexico is 108,700,891 (Central Intelligence Agency)

• You need to demonstrate that at least 54,350,446 of them are "violent and unintelligent".​

Ten minutes ... Go.
 
Tiassa said:
Mod Hat - About ten minutes



Willy, you have about ten minutes to provide the statistics that you must necessarily have on hand in order to make such a claim.

• The July, 2007 estimated population of Mexico is 108,700,891 (Central Intelligence Agency)

• You need to demonstrate that at least 54,350,446 of them are "violent and unintelligent".​

Ten minutes ... Go.
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Why don't you just prove that they are peaceful and intelligent?

If that is your claim.
 
Willy said:
I gave links about hundereds of illegal aliens raping and murdering American men women and children.

And you give me a link about a accident?

Can anyone show a story of a American raping or murdering a illegal alians.
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Whoa - hundreds of illegal aliens raping and murdering men, women and children? That's a lot of work. How many men, women and children are we talking about here? 'Cause they seem to be really getting the shaft!

And considering that there are around 8-9 million illegal aliens in the U.S, a few hundred of them being offenders isn't a bad ratio.

But then you said "a illegal alians" - which must be different from "illegal aliens," I suppose.
 
Tiassa said:
In the meantime, I'm well aware that your perspective asserts that people in the public trust should have no obligation to that trust.....
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While you want to string 'em up and tar and feather them without benefit of a trial ...or even charging them with a crime!!

And yet you want to help murderers, intentional killers, by giving them education, then turning them back into society so they can kill again. Interesting perspective you have, don't you think? :D

Baron Max
 
Xev said:
Whoa - hundreds of illegal aliens raping and murdering men, women and children? That's a lot of work. How many men, women and children are we talking about here? 'Cause they seem to be really getting the shaft!
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Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. If those numbers are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001.
 
Willy said:
Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. If those numbers are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001.
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Is that substantially more than are murdered by American citizens? Is it substantially more than the number of Latin-Americans who are murdered by American citizens? Is there any context to that number at all?

And why "since Sept. 11 2001?" Did the Mexicans just go apeshit and kill oodles of people while we were watching updates on CNN?
 
Tiassa said:
Mod Hat - About ten minutes
Willy, you have about ten minutes to provide the statistics that you must necessarily have on hand in order to make such a claim.
Click to expand...
I will take the bait.

VIOLENCE

Illegal Immigrants Cause 21% of Crime

I just ran the numbers to see how much crime is caused by illegal immigrants. I conclude that they cause about 21% of it, a crime rate 6 time that of legal residents, meaning that illegal immigrants cause 3,360 murders, 19,950 rapes, 450,000 burglaries, and 1.45 million serious thefts, besides other categories of crimes.

Here’s my methodology, since this kind of data, despite its obvious importance, isn’t available readily from the government, no doubt as part of the general policy of nonenforcement of immigration laws. My source notes are at the end of this post.

In 2005 there were 10.5 million illegal aliens, according to the government, including about 264,000 in jail and prison for non-immigration crimes. That’s an incarceration rate of 2.5%.


The total population was 296,639,000, including 1,496,000 in jail and prison, for an incarceration rate of 0.50%. Subtracting out illegals, the non-illegal population is then 286,139,000, with 1,235,000 in jail and prison, for an incarceration rate of 0.43%.

21.4% of inmates are thus illegal, and I assume that illegal immigrant criminals are caught and incarcerated at the same rate as domestic ones, and that no criminals are illegal immigrants except those identified in my data source, which is the number of prisoners who have committed at least two misdemeanors that state and local government find out are illegal and ask the federal government for reimbursement for. There are probably more; I don’t know how many.

Then I just multiply the amount of different categories of crimes by 21% to get the number committed by illegal immigrants.

Illegal Alien Invasion Deadlier Than Iraq by Mac Johnson did the calculations a very different way and came up with an estimate of 1,480 murders by year by illegal immigrants. I thought his method (based on crime rates in Mexico, etc.) would be an overestimate, but I see it is less than half of my estimate based on prison records.

The numbers paint a completely different story from the one commonly see in the press under headlines such as “The Myth of Immigrant Criminality” ( “The Myth of Immigrant Criminality,” Harvard Magazine (September-October, 2006) pp. 15-16, discussing Prof. Sampson’s work. See also an article on work by Ruben Rumbaut and Walter Ewing). The reason is simple: the much-cited studies are about legal immigrants, not illegal immigrants. Legal immigrants are by definition unusually law-abiding, and include Indian doctors, Korean grocers, and Mexican grandmothers who are unlikely to be committing many murders and rapes.

Statistical Abstract: crimes: 16 95 401 855 10,328 2,143 6,948 1,237. Multiply each by .21 to get 3,360 fewer murders, 19,950 fewer rapes, 450,000 fewer burglaries, and 1.45 million fewer serious thefts.

Statistical Abstract: 1,496,000 total in prison in 2004.

Statisical Abstract: population in 2005: 296,639,000

GAO report number GAO-05-337R entitled ‘Information on Criminal Aliens Incarcerated in Federal and State Prisons and Local Jails’ which was released on May 9, 2005:

* Criminal aliens incarcerated increased from about 42,000 at year-end 2001 to about 49,000 at year-end 2004. [federal prisons only]

* Fiscal year 2002-SCAAP reimbursed all 50 states for incarcerating about 77,000 criminal aliens.

* Fiscal year 2002-SCAAP reimbursed 752 local jurisdictions for incarcerating about 138,000 criminal aliens.

* SCAAP is a Department of Justice (DOJ), Bureau of Justice Assistance (BJA), program that partially reimburses state and local jurisdictions annually for the cost of incarcerating some but not all criminal aliens illegally in the country. Not all jurisdictions submit for SCAAP reimbursement.

* State and local jurisdictions voluntarily submit data annually on inmates they suspect to be criminal aliens for possible reimbursement. The program reimburses these jurisdictions for criminal aliens who:

-were convicted of a felony or two misdemeanors and incarcerated for a minimum of 4 days and -entered the U.S. without inspection, or were in immigration removal proceedings at the time they were taken into custody; or were admitted as a nonimmigrant and failed to maintain nonimmigrant status.[NOTE 1]

Wikipedia says

The Office of Immigration Statistics in the Department of Homeland Security estimates based on U.S. Census that 10.5 million illegal aliens were living in the United States in May 2005 and that the number grew at a national average of 408,000 a year

http://www.rasmusen.org/x/2007/06/29/illegal-immigrants- cause-21-of-crime/
 
No, you said "Our southern boarders would not need so much protection if the majority of Mexicans were not so violent and unintelligent"

Regarding the numbers you gave above, do you expect me to believe every single illegal is from Mexico? No illegals from Asia, Europe, Africa?
 
Tiassa said:
• You need to demonstrate that at least 54,350,446 of them are "violent and unintelligent".
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UNINTELLIGENT

In 2000, 44.2 percent of Hispanic young adults born outside of the United States were high school dropouts. Hispanic young adults born within the United States were much less likely to be dropouts. However, when looking at just those young adults born within the United States, Hispanic youths were still more likely to be dropouts than other young adults.

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2002/droppub_2001/
 
Mod Hat - 'Twas a nice attempt

Mod Hat - It was a nice attempt, I admit

I admit it was a nice attempt. But you haven't shown a majority. Take some time to reconsider and revise your assertion.

But not a whole lot of time. I'm not going to allow that unsubstantiated attack against Mexicans to stand for much longer.
 
Xev said:

And why "since Sept. 11 2001?" Did the Mexicans just go apeshit and kill oodles of people while we were watching updates on CNN?
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No, he's just being sensationalist, like his Republican source and WND. They're trying to pretend that Mexicans are terrorists in order to refuse any consideration of our immigration policies or the relationships between poverty and crime.
 
Tiassa said:
Mod Hat - It was a nice attempt, I admit

I admit it was a nice attempt. But you haven't shown a majority. Take some time to reconsider and revise your assertion.

But not a whole lot of time. I'm not going to allow that unsubstantiated attack against Mexicans to stand for much longer.
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Why don't you just prove I'm wrong?
 
Tiassa said:
Many people don't understand the concept of abuse. This problem is exacerbated in poor communities.
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Can you prove that poor people have a less understanding of abuse?

Tiassa said:
And other cultures simply view shame differently; sexual shame is not necessarily so close to the center of every culture's mythology. We should not be surprised if someone from a different culture does not understand our notion of what constitutes sexual abuse.
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Can you prove this?

What cultures are you speaking of?
 
Mod Hat - This one's over

Mod Hat - This one's over

Why don't you just prove I'm wrong?
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In the first place, not all illegal immigrants are from Mexico.

You might also have considered that not all Hispanics are from Mexico.

I'll tell you a funny story, though. True story. You might get a kick out of it.

My former partner is one of those who, on the one hand, likes to talk about herself excessively, and, to the other, doesn't have a broad perspective on what to talk about. The result is that just about any conversation that she happened across, on any subject, would be expected to evolve into a discussion about "what happened at work today". And it was always about how she was a great employee and other people were stupid. One day, though, she kept going off about "the Mexicans". You know, the Mexicans this, the Mexicans that. On the one hand, I wondered why she was bagging on the "Mexicans" for doing what other people did (e.g. finding ways to extend their break period, popping out for a twenty-minute "cigarette break", &c.), but I was also curious about her definition of "Mexican". So I asked her, "You realize that not all the Hispanics there are Mexican, right?" She looked back at me, blankly, for a couple of heartbeats, and then said, "Oh, yeah. Right. We have Cuban Mexicans, too."​

Gotta admit, I was speechless.

At any rate, even if we presume every illegal immigrant in the U.S., and every Hispanic in the world, is Mexican, I'm just not seeing the numbers add up to 54,350,446.

This topic is done.
 
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