Am I out of the loop ?
- Thread starter (Q)
- Start date
Just like tv, all those things keep you indoors, away from direct interaction with the real world: hiking, skydiving, travel, volunteering at the nearest senior center, breaking into your neighbors' houses.
It's all still living vicariously through senses not entirely your own.
It's all sorta like being on drugs. (cue: frying eggs)
Cris
TV gives a particular and important view of the world that you are denying yourself.
You're the only one extolling the virtues of TV. What could TV possibly offer that other media do not ? Northwind mentioned news gets updated faster than the internet. Aside from that, what else could attract and appease ?
Frankly, I enjoy reading over pictured visual stimuli. I read somewhere that Steven Speilberg deprives his audience of their imaginations by visually forcing certain thoughts and emotions with his films. I believe TV uses a similar strategy.
IMO, the written word leaves the reader to think for themselves.
Mr. G
It's all still living vicariously through senses not entirely your own.
And here we have the crux of the apostrophe. What could possibly be better than indulging ones *own* senses ?
It's all sorta like being on drugs.
Hmmm... I can't make that comparison. Could you expand on that ?
TV gives a particular and important view of the world that you are denying yourself.
You're the only one extolling the virtues of TV. What could TV possibly offer that other media do not ? Northwind mentioned news gets updated faster than the internet. Aside from that, what else could attract and appease ?
Frankly, I enjoy reading over pictured visual stimuli. I read somewhere that Steven Speilberg deprives his audience of their imaginations by visually forcing certain thoughts and emotions with his films. I believe TV uses a similar strategy.
IMO, the written word leaves the reader to think for themselves.
Mr. G
It's all still living vicariously through senses not entirely your own.
And here we have the crux of the apostrophe. What could possibly be better than indulging ones *own* senses ?
It's all sorta like being on drugs.
Hmmm... I can't make that comparison. Could you expand on that ?
Tell me which you will learn more from:
1) Reading in your newspaper or a webpage: "A farmer was killed today in Zimbabwe by a mob of Mugabe supporters..."
2) Seeing the remains of a farmer and his house on the television, with the same words over the top.
We take in information through various means. Reading brings it in only through the eyes. Television bings it in through the ears as well, two media at once. And I think it's true that a picture is worth a thousand words. Have any of you ever seen those old films from WW2, of piles of emaciated corpses being pushed into mass graves? Reading about it never had much effect on me. Seeing it did.
Words are descriptions of pictures and concepts. Pictures and concepts themselves are closer to the truth of any matter than words are. And by combining media - ie auditory, visual, tactile, et cetera - we concentrate more information into any given unit of time.
I see no reason for anyone to say television is bad. Like many things, it is a damn good idea, but can be bad if misused.
1) Reading in your newspaper or a webpage: "A farmer was killed today in Zimbabwe by a mob of Mugabe supporters..."
2) Seeing the remains of a farmer and his house on the television, with the same words over the top.
We take in information through various means. Reading brings it in only through the eyes. Television bings it in through the ears as well, two media at once. And I think it's true that a picture is worth a thousand words. Have any of you ever seen those old films from WW2, of piles of emaciated corpses being pushed into mass graves? Reading about it never had much effect on me. Seeing it did.
Words are descriptions of pictures and concepts. Pictures and concepts themselves are closer to the truth of any matter than words are. And by combining media - ie auditory, visual, tactile, et cetera - we concentrate more information into any given unit of time.
I see no reason for anyone to say television is bad. Like many things, it is a damn good idea, but can be bad if misused.
Reading brings it in only through the eyes. Television bings it in through the ears as well, two media at once.
I don't agree. Listening to someone state the facts is lazy when compared to having to read the facts yourself. How does on 're-listen' if need be ? I may re-read a statement if for some reason, missed something. Are there well written editorials on TV ? Are the news articles on TV in-depth ?
Pictures and concepts themselves are closer to the truth of any matter than words are.
The media likes to sensationalize much of the news and often do not paint a complete picture, so to speak. I think the same could be said of any media. We are usually left to decide for ourselves what 'truth' is presented, the real truth or the media's version of the truth.
Like many things, it is a damn good idea, but can be bad if misused.
My understanding is that is exactly what's happening with TV.
There are plenty of websites that provide well written scientific articles which help us keep abreast of the latest activities in that community. Does TV provide equal billing ?
I don't agree. Listening to someone state the facts is lazy when compared to having to read the facts yourself. How does on 're-listen' if need be ? I may re-read a statement if for some reason, missed something. Are there well written editorials on TV ? Are the news articles on TV in-depth ?
Pictures and concepts themselves are closer to the truth of any matter than words are.
The media likes to sensationalize much of the news and often do not paint a complete picture, so to speak. I think the same could be said of any media. We are usually left to decide for ourselves what 'truth' is presented, the real truth or the media's version of the truth.
Like many things, it is a damn good idea, but can be bad if misused.
My understanding is that is exactly what's happening with TV.
There are plenty of websites that provide well written scientific articles which help us keep abreast of the latest activities in that community. Does TV provide equal billing ?
orthogonal
Registered Senior Member
I don't agree with that sentence as it stands, though in all fairness, you did go on to say:
I generally agree with you Adam, a single image may be very powerful, but only if given in context. We all remember the famous photo taken by Nick Ut, of the little girl running naked with her skin aflame from a napalm attack on her village during the Vietnam War. It is said that this single photo did more to turn the average American against the war than did all the newspaper stories and weekly body counts up to that time.
I don't care to make an argument that television can not be done well. Perhaps it is done well in Australia. I saw where Cris complained to Stryder that he misses the BBC. I understand why he would say this. My limited experience with Italian and German television would make me say the same if I were an American expatriot living in Europe; it's even worse than American television! It's not true that I don't watch any television; at this moment I'm surrounded by a wall full of monitors, all showing the same cooking show.
Perhaps I'm biased from spending 40 hours a week with these monitors in front of me. I feel like the character in A Clockwork Orange that is strapped down and has his eyelids propped open, as he is made to watch hours of films depicting "the old ultra-violence." I've sat alone in this little hut on top of a mountain for the past 14 years while this endless ooze spews forth; the soaps, the doctor, lawyer, and police "dramas", "Reality TV", not to forget those hour long Sunday morning "info-mercials" for kitchen "slicers and dicers" and those exercise machines that people love to buy and leave in their closet. I take a professional pride in keeping this transmitter well maintained. That's my job. But I have to say that I feel no greater pride for my part in spewing this mess onto the airwaves.
Sometimes in the evening I sit on a boulder outside the hut door and watch the sunset behind the Adirondak mountains. There is a large lake, Lake Champlain, at the base of these mountains. When the clouds are just right, the setting sun reflected simultaneously off the lake below and the mountains above is glorious sight to behold. Since I'm sitting on top of the world, so to speak, I can look around and see the reddish-orange light fade from the mountainsides below me. Later, I see the lights in villages below me come on like swarms of tiny fireflies. Over here I recognize Waterbury, there is Stowe, and on clear nights I can just make out the glow of Montreal over the northern horizon.
In the midst of all this silent beauty I have to periodically peek back into the transmitter room to make sure the signal is alright, and I think...what an ironic and crazy world this is; here sits a million dollars worth of equipment broadcasting a mindless, blathering sitcom to a hundred-thousand people slouched across their sofas, while all around me at the very source of this drivel, I'm enjoying a breathtaking view that might make the gods themselves stand up and take notice. I want so much to type into the crawl machine (you know, it's the device I use to put weather warnings across the bottom of the screen) the message; TURN OFF YOUR TELEVISION, GET OFF YOUR FAT BUMS, GO STAND OUTSIDE FACING THE WEST.... Well, I could do this, but only once.
I really shouldn't complain. The fact that all these people sit on their bums puts bread on my table, besides, it's a wonderful job. I'm sure I'd feel a lot better about it if I were broadcasting science and nature shows, and the arts. Not far from me is an unmanned Public Broadcasting System (PBS) television transmitter installation which does just that. They have an excellent science program out of Boston titled, Nova, and likewise a journalism program titled, Frontline, etc.
My station is a major commercial network affiliate however. It shows what the producers in New York think people want to watch, though I shouldn't say "people". Instead I should say, what they think the "lowest common denominator" of the American public wants to watch.
Gosh, sorry, I think I went off here. Now back to our regularly scheduled program...
Michael
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I'm stunned
So many of you have just dismissed television from your lives because you now have computers?
I watch television a lot. I'll admit it. It seems to have become an uncool thing to do according to this thread. But may I put forward how I see television?
Television brings the world into your living room. Documentaries are educational. If you don't know something exists then you're not going to go and find a book about it. I don't travel, but through TV I know there are beautiful, amazing and wonderous things in the world; places, cultures, people and ideas that grab my attention and compel me to learn more about these things - and most likely I will sit down in front of my computer to do so. But, hell, I probably would know computers existed if it weren't for television.
Talk shows ranging from Jerry Springer (I've only seen that show a couple of times and find myself shocked at the behaviour of the people on that show) to political debates provide a stimulus to ask questions, investigate further and form my own opinions. It doesn't matter what the subject matter is, anything you overhear on a TV set that grabs your interest will stimulate the thought process.
I don't understand why so many of you are against the medium that showed us man's first step on the moon, the racial tension rampant in most countries, the wars being fought, the history of this planet. None of these things would have sprung from my own imagination.
In my opinion the wonder of science and astronomy cannot be displayed or demonstrated through radio or books. Particlarly with astronomy, I perceive television as a gift.
Even movies - comedies, dramas, suspense - they may be a form of escapism, but I'm not ashamed to say that watching any of these things give me enjoyment. Comedy especially, when you think about it, if you don't know anyone who is particulary funny then where's the joy? We all need to laugh.
Even to discover that you're own particular problems and daily worries are not limited to your own little world. Finding out how someone solves a problem similiar to your own has to be a good thing.
I believe that most of my education has been through television, not only watching it, but releasing the questions raised by watching. I don't have cable but the few channels I do have is enough for me. If what you're watching is uninteresting, switch it off.
As much as I hate advertisments, there have been times when they have given me an answer or a lead to whatever it is I'm looking for.
This is only my opinion, but think about it folks, what wouldn't you have thought about or seen had it not been for television? If it's not cool to watch television then so be it. I'm not cool. But I am interested in what's going on in the world, and I have an window in front of me that shows me things books never could.
I love my computer, but it's the television that leads me to use the internet.
Sorry for the long post.
I've needed escapism lately and my TV set has provided it.
Give it some more thought and see if you can understand my point of view.
Cheers everyone.
Hope you're all okay.
Teri
So many of you have just dismissed television from your lives because you now have computers?
I watch television a lot. I'll admit it. It seems to have become an uncool thing to do according to this thread. But may I put forward how I see television?
Television brings the world into your living room. Documentaries are educational. If you don't know something exists then you're not going to go and find a book about it. I don't travel, but through TV I know there are beautiful, amazing and wonderous things in the world; places, cultures, people and ideas that grab my attention and compel me to learn more about these things - and most likely I will sit down in front of my computer to do so. But, hell, I probably would know computers existed if it weren't for television.
Talk shows ranging from Jerry Springer (I've only seen that show a couple of times and find myself shocked at the behaviour of the people on that show) to political debates provide a stimulus to ask questions, investigate further and form my own opinions. It doesn't matter what the subject matter is, anything you overhear on a TV set that grabs your interest will stimulate the thought process.
I don't understand why so many of you are against the medium that showed us man's first step on the moon, the racial tension rampant in most countries, the wars being fought, the history of this planet. None of these things would have sprung from my own imagination.
In my opinion the wonder of science and astronomy cannot be displayed or demonstrated through radio or books. Particlarly with astronomy, I perceive television as a gift.
Even movies - comedies, dramas, suspense - they may be a form of escapism, but I'm not ashamed to say that watching any of these things give me enjoyment. Comedy especially, when you think about it, if you don't know anyone who is particulary funny then where's the joy? We all need to laugh.
Even to discover that you're own particular problems and daily worries are not limited to your own little world. Finding out how someone solves a problem similiar to your own has to be a good thing.
I believe that most of my education has been through television, not only watching it, but releasing the questions raised by watching. I don't have cable but the few channels I do have is enough for me. If what you're watching is uninteresting, switch it off.
As much as I hate advertisments, there have been times when they have given me an answer or a lead to whatever it is I'm looking for.
This is only my opinion, but think about it folks, what wouldn't you have thought about or seen had it not been for television? If it's not cool to watch television then so be it. I'm not cool. But I am interested in what's going on in the world, and I have an window in front of me that shows me things books never could.
I love my computer, but it's the television that leads me to use the internet.
Sorry for the long post.
I've needed escapism lately and my TV set has provided it.
Give it some more thought and see if you can understand my point of view.
Cheers everyone.
Hope you're all okay.
Teri
orthogonal
Registered Senior Member
Teri,
Fair enough, I'm not disappointed to hear how much you enjoy TV. You might think likewise that I'm wasting my time in the library, working in my garden, or hiking in the woods. In the end we all are the best judge of how we choose to spend our own lives.
Still Teri, I hope you can see my point that there are larger social issues at play. The fact that the industrialized world sits for an average of three hours a day in front of their TV, changes the world. There is no reason why the sociological aspects of watching TV should not be open to discussion.
When I was a kid, I remember being told how the world used to be, before television. I was told that television was ruining our sense of community. Supposedly we used to gather together around the piano, or down in the village at a dance, etc. It all sounded quite boring to me, at that time I'd much rather watch the Flintstones, or Gilligan's Island on TV than do those things.
Now the shoe is on the other foot. You see, I grew up in a city which could be very hot and humid in the summers. This was before air conditioning (BAC) was common in people's homes. On warm summer evenings people up and down my street would all sit out on their front porch; it was too hot even to watch TV in the house. Us kids would run around and play while the adults sat around talking. Sometimes we would walk to the park where the green trees and grass provided a bit more relief from the heat. But everyone was out in the evening; it was a giant neighborhood network of sorts. A few years ago I returned to this city in the summertime. Just for grins, I drove past the house I grew up in. I was struck by the fact that no one sat on their front porch anymore. The neighborhood looked like a ghost town. People now remain indoors with their airconditioning. I suppose it's better now, it's certainly easier to sleep when you aren't soaked by your own sweat. However, you might agree that we have lost something as well. Even if the people are instead all sitting around their computers writing posts on the Sciforums instead of sitting out on their porch. I'm not saying that we should give up airconditioning, I simply want to bring to your attention that we've made a trade-off. Hmm...now, I sound like the old geezer complaining of how things were when he was a kid.
There is another social aspect of our television that I'll only mention briefly. We've all heard the quote that "life imitates art." Well, soon after I gave up my own TV, I began to notice how much our everyday behavior imitates what we see on TV. I often overhear conversations that sound as if they came right out of a Los Angeles TV script. The accents, the cliches, and the spongy dramatics are all perfectly in place; which leaves me with an unsettling feeling of deja-vu. It makes perfect sense when the primary human interaction one is exposed to takes place in TV dramas. We unconsciously integrate this into our real-life human interactions.
Having done away with my TV might be slightly analogous to loosing my eyesight but having my hearing become more highly developed. I pay close attention to my interaction with other humans. I think carefully about what I say and about what other people tell me. But over time I begin to wonder if other people see human interaction the same way I do, or do they view it as a made-up script and scenery? I wonder if they are even thinking what they are saying to me, or are they just reading aloud some memorized lines from an old episode of Dawson's Creek out of their head? No, of course everyone doesn't do this, some folks have fantastically original minds. Yet so much of the conversation I hear seem as if it is taking place on-autopilot. It seems as "canned" as the old laughter recordings of the sitcoms. In any case, this is only a personal impression of mine. I've never heard anyone else even suggest as much. I might be only hallucinating here.
In closing Teri, I don't want to paint TV as the "Great Satan". Enjoy your TV and keep me in a job. All I ask is that we keep a third eye open while the other two are fixed on the TV.
Michael
Fair enough, I'm not disappointed to hear how much you enjoy TV. You might think likewise that I'm wasting my time in the library, working in my garden, or hiking in the woods. In the end we all are the best judge of how we choose to spend our own lives.
Still Teri, I hope you can see my point that there are larger social issues at play. The fact that the industrialized world sits for an average of three hours a day in front of their TV, changes the world. There is no reason why the sociological aspects of watching TV should not be open to discussion.
When I was a kid, I remember being told how the world used to be, before television. I was told that television was ruining our sense of community. Supposedly we used to gather together around the piano, or down in the village at a dance, etc. It all sounded quite boring to me, at that time I'd much rather watch the Flintstones, or Gilligan's Island on TV than do those things.
Now the shoe is on the other foot. You see, I grew up in a city which could be very hot and humid in the summers. This was before air conditioning (BAC) was common in people's homes. On warm summer evenings people up and down my street would all sit out on their front porch; it was too hot even to watch TV in the house. Us kids would run around and play while the adults sat around talking. Sometimes we would walk to the park where the green trees and grass provided a bit more relief from the heat. But everyone was out in the evening; it was a giant neighborhood network of sorts. A few years ago I returned to this city in the summertime. Just for grins, I drove past the house I grew up in. I was struck by the fact that no one sat on their front porch anymore. The neighborhood looked like a ghost town. People now remain indoors with their airconditioning. I suppose it's better now, it's certainly easier to sleep when you aren't soaked by your own sweat. However, you might agree that we have lost something as well. Even if the people are instead all sitting around their computers writing posts on the Sciforums instead of sitting out on their porch. I'm not saying that we should give up airconditioning, I simply want to bring to your attention that we've made a trade-off. Hmm...now, I sound like the old geezer complaining of how things were when he was a kid.
There is another social aspect of our television that I'll only mention briefly. We've all heard the quote that "life imitates art." Well, soon after I gave up my own TV, I began to notice how much our everyday behavior imitates what we see on TV. I often overhear conversations that sound as if they came right out of a Los Angeles TV script. The accents, the cliches, and the spongy dramatics are all perfectly in place; which leaves me with an unsettling feeling of deja-vu. It makes perfect sense when the primary human interaction one is exposed to takes place in TV dramas. We unconsciously integrate this into our real-life human interactions.
Having done away with my TV might be slightly analogous to loosing my eyesight but having my hearing become more highly developed. I pay close attention to my interaction with other humans. I think carefully about what I say and about what other people tell me. But over time I begin to wonder if other people see human interaction the same way I do, or do they view it as a made-up script and scenery? I wonder if they are even thinking what they are saying to me, or are they just reading aloud some memorized lines from an old episode of Dawson's Creek out of their head? No, of course everyone doesn't do this, some folks have fantastically original minds. Yet so much of the conversation I hear seem as if it is taking place on-autopilot. It seems as "canned" as the old laughter recordings of the sitcoms. In any case, this is only a personal impression of mine. I've never heard anyone else even suggest as much. I might be only hallucinating here.
In closing Teri, I don't want to paint TV as the "Great Satan". Enjoy your TV and keep me in a job. All I ask is that we keep a third eye open while the other two are fixed on the TV.
Michael
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Orthogonal
I am learning much from your valuble input. Having been involved with TV on a personal level and then working in the industry, you are certainly a treasure trove of information. It is muchly appreciated and you may post endlessly on the subject if you so desire. It is most fascinating from the point of view of one who has had no experience with TV. Thanks.
I am learning much from your valuble input. Having been involved with TV on a personal level and then working in the industry, you are certainly a treasure trove of information. It is muchly appreciated and you may post endlessly on the subject if you so desire. It is most fascinating from the point of view of one who has had no experience with TV. Thanks.
Orthogonal
My words must have conveyed the wrong impression in my post of last night (it was very very late).
Don't, for the love of anything, give up hiking in the woods, gardening, going to the library or enjoying the outdoors . I would adore to live in the country on a farm with some barnyard animals, a horse or two, some ducks on a pond, a few dogs and a night sky fully lit by stars not obscured by smog. I think the television would rarely be switched on in those circumstances. If you have the opportunity to enjoy the outdoors I envy you. I think possibly I'm trying to say that because of TV I know what it is I am missing. Rain forests and sunsets over the ocean are most certainly better experienced than watched, but I don't have the opportunity. So I have the second best thing, the vision of it via tv.
The days of being outdoors after dark in my neighbourhood are long gone. (To tell the truth I don't think there are neighbourhoods any more that provide a safe haven at night) And the subject matter in my own job is enough to keep me inside at any rate. I do know how you feel about how things used to be before tv. Neighbours were neighbours and usually friends too, gatherings were noisy and full of laughter. I remember those times fondly.
I agree with everything you've said, however I don't often think about it. I can't relate to your comparison of people talking like they do on the television only because if I hear any 'catch phrase' or 'TV speak' seriously being uttered by someone I know, I'll usually make fun of them - in a lighthearted way, but fun nevertheless.
In my closing, Michael, just let me say you are right, technology has changed the world, and most people probably are not aware of any difference. I understand exactly what you're saying. It's the subject matter you choose to watch that shapes how you look at things. And you know what? I think it's possible to have a happy medium; in the end it's a personal choice. Through TV I know what's out there, and if I ever won lotto I would be walking through those rainforests and watching those wonderful sunsets over the ocean.
PS I haven't been proof reading my posts so if I come across in any way negatively about what you have written, forgive me. Ditto for any spelling errors.
Cheers.
Teri
My words must have conveyed the wrong impression in my post of last night (it was very very late).
Don't, for the love of anything, give up hiking in the woods, gardening, going to the library or enjoying the outdoors . I would adore to live in the country on a farm with some barnyard animals, a horse or two, some ducks on a pond, a few dogs and a night sky fully lit by stars not obscured by smog. I think the television would rarely be switched on in those circumstances. If you have the opportunity to enjoy the outdoors I envy you. I think possibly I'm trying to say that because of TV I know what it is I am missing. Rain forests and sunsets over the ocean are most certainly better experienced than watched, but I don't have the opportunity. So I have the second best thing, the vision of it via tv.
The days of being outdoors after dark in my neighbourhood are long gone. (To tell the truth I don't think there are neighbourhoods any more that provide a safe haven at night) And the subject matter in my own job is enough to keep me inside at any rate. I do know how you feel about how things used to be before tv. Neighbours were neighbours and usually friends too, gatherings were noisy and full of laughter. I remember those times fondly.
I agree with everything you've said, however I don't often think about it. I can't relate to your comparison of people talking like they do on the television only because if I hear any 'catch phrase' or 'TV speak' seriously being uttered by someone I know, I'll usually make fun of them - in a lighthearted way, but fun nevertheless.
In my closing, Michael, just let me say you are right, technology has changed the world, and most people probably are not aware of any difference. I understand exactly what you're saying. It's the subject matter you choose to watch that shapes how you look at things. And you know what? I think it's possible to have a happy medium; in the end it's a personal choice. Through TV I know what's out there, and if I ever won lotto I would be walking through those rainforests and watching those wonderful sunsets over the ocean.
PS I haven't been proof reading my posts so if I come across in any way negatively about what you have written, forgive me. Ditto for any spelling errors.
Cheers.
Teri