All I have to say to the atheists and non-believers.
- Thread starter FreeMason
- Start date
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
FreeMason said:
No one has done more than the Free Mason's to destroy the Church and all things Good and Beautiful, so where does this most recent remorse come from. You've made an evil bed and now don't want to sleep in it?
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
duendy said:
God is still not quite dead while there are still some very large Religious Orders still active and Faithful. The Masons have largely infiltrated the Bishops, and from there they were able to enlist enough Homo-Pedophile Priests to disgrace and largely bankrupt what they call the Secular Church, but many of the Religious Orders are self-governed and frankly flippoff the Bishops. These authentic Religious Orders represent solid and survivable core of Catholic and Marian Belief.
It's epitaph should read, "never did exist, still dont."FreeMason said:
mustafhakofi: It's epitaph should read, "never did exist, still dont."
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M*W: I'm confused. If it never did exist, and still doesn't, why would it need an epitaph? Assuming this epitaph would go on a marker. Further, how would one go about making funeral arrangements for something non-existent? Oh, I am sure any funeral home would be more than willing to sell a plot regardless of what was to be interred. Or would it be a more likely idea to cremate it? During the wake, what would be laid in the open casket? A crucifix? What about those folks who lost a different god? I guess I am focused on this because I have to attend a funeral today of my beloved ex-father-in-law. He was 98 years old.
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M*W: I'm confused. If it never did exist, and still doesn't, why would it need an epitaph? Assuming this epitaph would go on a marker. Further, how would one go about making funeral arrangements for something non-existent? Oh, I am sure any funeral home would be more than willing to sell a plot regardless of what was to be interred. Or would it be a more likely idea to cremate it? During the wake, what would be laid in the open casket? A crucifix? What about those folks who lost a different god? I guess I am focused on this because I have to attend a funeral today of my beloved ex-father-in-law. He was 98 years old.
Repo Man said:
I understand this pattern...That the Greek olympian gods had demonized the gods of the earth, hence the former's lofty status. Losing thier animal-human and plant-human etc associations they became distant 'eidolons' /ghosts.
the head -dude-father god being 'ZEus'....and its been 'downhill' ever since ...or uphill as the case may be
Freemason,
Here is a more insightful perpsective -
The Nobel Prize winner Elie Weisel had lived only for God during his childhood in Hungary; his life had been shaped by the disciplines of the Talmud and he had hoped one day to be initiated into the mysteries of Kabbalah. As a boy, he was taken to Auschwitz and later to Buchenwald. During his first night in the death camp, watching the black smoke coiling to the sky from the crematorium where the bodies of his mother and sister were to be thrown, he knew that the flames had consumed his faith for ever. He was in a world which was the objective correlative of the Godless world imagined by Nietzsche. 'Never should I forget that nocturnal silence which deprived me, for all eternity, of the desire to live', he wrote years later. 'Never shall I forget these moments which murdered my God and my soul and turned my dreams to dust.
One day the Gestapo hanged a child. Even the SS were disturbed by the prospect of hanging a young boy in front of thousands of spectators. The child who, Weisel recalled, had the face of a 'sad-eyed angel', was silent, lividly pale and almost calm as he ascended the gallows. Behind Weisel, one of the other prisoners asked: 'Where is God? Where is He? It took the child half an hour to die, while the prisoners were forced to look him in the face. The same man asked again: 'Where is God now?' And Weisel heard a voice within him make this answer: 'Where is He? Here He is - He is hanging here on this gallows.'
Here is a more insightful perpsective -
The Nobel Prize winner Elie Weisel had lived only for God during his childhood in Hungary; his life had been shaped by the disciplines of the Talmud and he had hoped one day to be initiated into the mysteries of Kabbalah. As a boy, he was taken to Auschwitz and later to Buchenwald. During his first night in the death camp, watching the black smoke coiling to the sky from the crematorium where the bodies of his mother and sister were to be thrown, he knew that the flames had consumed his faith for ever. He was in a world which was the objective correlative of the Godless world imagined by Nietzsche. 'Never should I forget that nocturnal silence which deprived me, for all eternity, of the desire to live', he wrote years later. 'Never shall I forget these moments which murdered my God and my soul and turned my dreams to dust.
One day the Gestapo hanged a child. Even the SS were disturbed by the prospect of hanging a young boy in front of thousands of spectators. The child who, Weisel recalled, had the face of a 'sad-eyed angel', was silent, lividly pale and almost calm as he ascended the gallows. Behind Weisel, one of the other prisoners asked: 'Where is God? Where is He? It took the child half an hour to die, while the prisoners were forced to look him in the face. The same man asked again: 'Where is God now?' And Weisel heard a voice within him make this answer: 'Where is He? Here He is - He is hanging here on this gallows.'
To the poster who seems to imply that Nazi Germany was secular or atheistic,
could you please identify for us what is in this photograph(1) and provide us with a translation of "Gott mit Uns" ? (Yes I know very well what it means, I ask so that others might realize the implications )
1 - This image was taken from www.nobeliefs.com. For even more, see http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm .
could you please identify for us what is in this photograph(1) and provide us with a translation of "Gott mit Uns" ? (Yes I know very well what it means, I ask so that others might realize the implications )
1 - This image was taken from www.nobeliefs.com. For even more, see http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm .
If someone is attesting that the idea of God was "dead" somewhere around that period, as evidenced by an abuse of racial or religious misconceptions to grotesquely murder a child, we will have to go back a lot further in time to find out when God "died". It must have been long before the birth of any religion we would even begin to call "modern". This could mean that organized churches are not creations of God, but of man. I can dig that. It speaks volumes on organized religion, what does it say about God?
I sympathize with the person saying "these moments...murdered my god," and accept their statement. But I will not accept that those moments murdered my God.
There have been children sacrificed to "God" in ancient cultures, and also in more recent aboriginal cultures. However, any of the concepts a religion has which are false about God come from basic human blindness - Example, If your book says, "thou shalt not kill" and a priest persuades you to go kill someone you are just blind.
Some primitive cultures killed to appease the Gods' wrath, others put skins on and danced around a fire. The people that danced around and sang are not so evil, don't you think? Some of you would put them in a category with the nazi torturers.
When the false misconceptions of God actually die, If I am around to see it, I will join with the shout, "GOD IS DEAD" out of pure elation, only afterwards will I be able to get back to saying, "but the true God is not."
I sympathize with the person saying "these moments...murdered my god," and accept their statement. But I will not accept that those moments murdered my God.
There have been children sacrificed to "God" in ancient cultures, and also in more recent aboriginal cultures. However, any of the concepts a religion has which are false about God come from basic human blindness - Example, If your book says, "thou shalt not kill" and a priest persuades you to go kill someone you are just blind.
Some primitive cultures killed to appease the Gods' wrath, others put skins on and danced around a fire. The people that danced around and sang are not so evil, don't you think? Some of you would put them in a category with the nazi torturers.
When the false misconceptions of God actually die, If I am around to see it, I will join with the shout, "GOD IS DEAD" out of pure elation, only afterwards will I be able to get back to saying, "but the true God is not."
Fortuna,
No such implication was made. Most armies tend to fight thinking they have a deity on their side, and Hitler was quite religious and used that belief as a justification when attempting to exterminate the alleged murderers of Jesus. Muslim suicide bombers expect heavenly approval and the barbaric Christians who murderously slaughtered thousands of Muslims 1000 years ago also claimed they were doing the Lord’s work. And for a religion that has a major doctrine that one shall not murder then the integrity of Christianity seems highly dubious.
But when faced with such sadistic events we must somehow deal with the paradox of a claimed omni-benevolent deity allowing such events to occur. Clearly such a god is impossible and therefore cannot exist or died long ago if it ever existed.
No such implication was made. Most armies tend to fight thinking they have a deity on their side, and Hitler was quite religious and used that belief as a justification when attempting to exterminate the alleged murderers of Jesus. Muslim suicide bombers expect heavenly approval and the barbaric Christians who murderously slaughtered thousands of Muslims 1000 years ago also claimed they were doing the Lord’s work. And for a religion that has a major doctrine that one shall not murder then the integrity of Christianity seems highly dubious.
But when faced with such sadistic events we must somehow deal with the paradox of a claimed omni-benevolent deity allowing such events to occur. Clearly such a god is impossible and therefore cannot exist or died long ago if it ever existed.
true. such a god NEVER DID exist.
just because you like mcdonalds hamburgers doesnt mean it doesnt have cow eyeballs in it, no matter what you tell me.
i hope that statement isnt too vague...
haha i agreed with cris.
just because you like mcdonalds hamburgers doesnt mean it doesnt have cow eyeballs in it, no matter what you tell me.
i hope that statement isnt too vague...
haha i agreed with cris.
But if we return to the thread topic and look around at the universe and assume it is evidence of God then we must also accept the massive destruction caused by natural disasters, the many diseases that kill millions each year, and the injustices and cruelty that man imposes on others – all of which are part of this alleged marvel created by God.
I’d like to think that a personal God that listens to prayers would somehow actually help people than brutally allow them to be killed and allow widespread misery to millions more.
There really can be no reconciliation between the existence of these events and the claim of an “all good” god.
I’d like to think that a personal God that listens to prayers would somehow actually help people than brutally allow them to be killed and allow widespread misery to millions more.
There really can be no reconciliation between the existence of these events and the claim of an “all good” god.
it IS a marvel.
not all people that believe in god believe that he/she/it is all-benevolent.
not all people that believe in god believe that he/she/it is all-benevolent.
Depends which god they have in mind and what they mean by God. Within the narrow confines of the Abrahamic religions the Universe and Man are God's prized creations. If we pursue the god depicted by Deism or Pantheism then we enter quite a different discussion.
"monotheistic religion has always brought out the best in us humans."
This cartoon person is absolving humanity for its actions, blaming religion for bringing out the worst. Humanity got fooled into their actions by... other humans, no?
I'm glad real people don't try to do that.
This cartoon person is absolving humanity for its actions, blaming religion for bringing out the worst. Humanity got fooled into their actions by... other humans, no?
I'm glad real people don't try to do that.