Alien Abduction Research
- Thread starter sderenzi
- Start date
For my sins here I freely confess - discerning quite how the the establishment of the presence of hereditary autism in the family ball-bag pertains to presence of extraterrestrials has, as I say for my sins, someone peaked my interest.
Is this an inclusive criteria to the research or an eliminator to the profile, presumably, you're trying to establish here?
Answer: Actually through my reading on various abduction scenerios it occured to me that if there really were a genetic experiment or manipulation going on by another species that by the nature of this phenomena there would be some flaws in their work. I've heard of some people that possess autism seeing ghosts, unusual things, actually more in the family then a single individual. If there is a logical conclusion it might be that autism is a general result of genetic manipulation by this other species, which just happens to be a side-effect of that which they're trying to do. I can't prove it, of course all this is my opinion, however I do think it's a good concept.
Since when do we consider the existence of one not-in-the-slightest-proved phenomena as indicative as evidence of another?
Answer: Well a phenomena doesn't need to be entirely proven to allow us some insight into another. I understand this however is a fairly sci-fish one so that by it's nature would require proof of some sort. This was only meant to give some ideas, not really meant to prove it's actual reality.
Is this an inclusive criteria to the research or an eliminator to the profile, presumably, you're trying to establish here?
Answer: Actually through my reading on various abduction scenerios it occured to me that if there really were a genetic experiment or manipulation going on by another species that by the nature of this phenomena there would be some flaws in their work. I've heard of some people that possess autism seeing ghosts, unusual things, actually more in the family then a single individual. If there is a logical conclusion it might be that autism is a general result of genetic manipulation by this other species, which just happens to be a side-effect of that which they're trying to do. I can't prove it, of course all this is my opinion, however I do think it's a good concept.
Since when do we consider the existence of one not-in-the-slightest-proved phenomena as indicative as evidence of another?
Answer: Well a phenomena doesn't need to be entirely proven to allow us some insight into another. I understand this however is a fairly sci-fish one so that by it's nature would require proof of some sort. This was only meant to give some ideas, not really meant to prove it's actual reality.
M
Mr Anonymous
Guest
Novacane said:
... Remember? Ah, how could anyone possibly forget - how is anyone possibly allowed to possibly forget? A husband and wife finding themselves at the side of the road, mystified as to how they got there, dimly remembering only something glimpsed in the night sky, coming too hours later. Memories a-blank. It has the stuff of Made For Television Movie of The Week stamped all over it. Come to think of it, it was.
If one can't in the first place remember events after a given point - how does one actually know the memories they themselves have no conscious recollection of recalling, only relayed under a state of hypnosis, are in fact actually true?
Ever drank so much the night before y'wake up the next morning and can't for the life of you fathom what happened? Bits you remember but the missing bits are genuinely that. Missing. Blank. Empty. There's nothing recollectable their because, due to the high levels of alcohol in the bloodstream, after you reach saturation point cognitive function packs up. Associative markers, index cards the brain uses for remembering specific events, don't get layed down.
All the hypnotherapy in the world doesn't bring it back.
Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome can actively prompt the conscious mind to block off access to certain, painful, traumatising events. The subconscious seeks to reassert some form of closure to events, but the conscious mind prevents it.
Lets say Betty and Barney's experience, mutually shared, proved so traumatic it induced PTSS in the pair of them. Here's the rub - the likelihood of PTSS affecting two separate individuals in exactly the same way at exactly the same time remain exactly unique in the study of clinical psychiatry.
The paper one could write on that one one could open a chain of Quack-U-Like the length and breadth the continental USA over. No one ever did though, despite the high public profile of the incident. That's because a clinical psychiatrist wouldn't give y'spit for the story, but a fellow with an interest in UFO's and a belief in Aliens would and if you were to go to a practising hypno-therapist with say, the desire to recollect in detail you're exact memories of your 10th Birthday in all its live-long Technicolour glory - remember it you will because a person believing themselves in a state of hypnosis is acting under a suggestion that, after a given point, they are hypnotised and actively want to take part in the experience.
A person who goes to a hypno-therapist with the conscious forethought of having their memories of their abduction experience at the hands of aliens brought back to the surface, oddly enough, recalls the experiences they are prompted to recollect.
The mind fills in the blanks. Minds are very good at doing this. This is what they do.
There's a reason why eye-witness testimony recovered through hypnosis isn't admissible as evidence in court - it's un-reliable. It's a popular misnomer the idea that a hypnotised person is incapable of telling the truth - quite the contrary, they tell you exactly what you want them to say and are even prepared to act on the instruction under the express belief that they, are infact, under a state of hypnosis.
A condition the hypnotist informs them they will be after a given set point....
I once saw a fellow in a live show get handed a raw Spanish onion and told to believe it was the tastiest apple he had ever in his life enjoyed - and there he sat, a look of bliss on his face, not a tear in his eye biting huge mouthfuls out of this thing you could smell and feel your own eyes watering from three rows back from the front.
The power of suggestion is truly a wondrous thing.
What happened to Betty and Barney Hill - I doubt very much they ever really knew. I don't for a second doubt though that someone told them what was supposed to have happened. If indeed they, or was it just Betty (I can never remember) genuinely were hypnotised there would have been no way the person taking the part of hypnotist could have not informed their subjects, to some extent, exactly where their recollections should come from.
Descriptions of images and details bearing suspicious resemblances to scenes taken wholesale from the movie Invaders From Mars! which had been screened late night not a great deal much before they first reported waking up at the side of the road - a large TV at the foot of the bedside in their home, who knows where Betty's recollections could possibly have come from.
Invader From Mars! A classic piece of sci-fi hoke, have you ever seen it? It's in Technicolour y'know. Martians come and abduct young women, strap them helpless to tables and use undisclosed medical devices on them for purposes sinister and nefarious and all to do with humpy-pumpy.
Where do people get these ideas from?! Tsk! I dunno...
Perish the though either one of them were the sort to fall asleep with the TV switched on late at night...
What prompted them to find themselves parked at the side of the road that fateful night in the first place? Did a single official witness ever testify to the fact? Did anyone ever confirm this as true?
No. They didn't. We only really have Betty's word for that, and Barney never argued. But then again Barney was never as publicly voluble on the whole incident as his wife seemed happy to be. Quiet Sort Barney Hill. Did anyone ever bother to go over the alleged incident with Barney, alone...?
No. They never did. Still. He quite obviously adored his wife and that's more than commendable in anyones book.
Serendezi said:
I'm probably going to regret this possibly even more - but since when exactly did it become a logical assumption to consider the genetic manipulation of human bloodlines as a possible cause of autism in family groups in the first place?
If I were trying to think up a story line for science fiction novel, film or TV storyline treatment - okay, a strong sci-fi premise is a good place to start with the cooking up of the creative juices - but in any other context, surely you can conceed this, taking this as a starting point for a serious minded investigation into an actual physiological complain...
Surely this must qualify as being, just a tincture of a bit, odd?
Last edited by a moderator:
Mr. Anonymous,
Hey, it worked for them........Zeta2 Reticuli here we come. D
http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/hilldir.htm
Hey, it worked for them........Zeta2 Reticuli here we come. D
http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/hilldir.htm
Last edited:
quote: Or, alternatively, that the person answering yes to everything is simply your average, common-or-garden, run-of-the-mill paranoid schizophrenic suffering from the common sleep disorder of Sleep Paralysis and a tendency towards self harm...
and who is answering yes to everything? do they matter? i don't even see their existence. nor do i care.
and who is answering yes to everything? do they matter? i don't even see their existence. nor do i care.
M
Mr Anonymous
Guest
..... Mmmmm. Many thanks for the linky, but a few third party articles written some 11 years or so after the event aren't really all that likely to have me booking a one way ticket to Zeta2 any day soon....I mean, imagine the problems you'd have getting past security these days in the first place.
The Hill Abduction gives a somewhat broader, more up-to-date overview of the affair (it was an episode of The Outer Limits, not Invaders From Mars as I seemed to have recalled it that featured in the hypnosis sessions and it was Barney, not Betty who bugged out the most and quoted from the show verbatum.... gone 6 o'clock in the am, not my personal best time of the day).
One matter, confirmed in both the sites you referenced and the one above, do bear out the observation however that the UFO Believing Brigade were all over the Hills well before the subject of memory retrieval via "hypnotic regression" was ever mooted as a course to take - exclusively at the suggestion and recommendation of individuals already of the firm belief in UFO's and Extraterrestrials.
Benjamin Simon, the Psychiatrist who worked on there regression sessions, you'll be amused to learn, published his findings in a bespoke Psychiatric Journal Psychiatric Opinion in 1964 - his conclusion: that the case demonstrated nothing more untoward than a singular psychiatric aberration.
A conclusion considerably more cursory and succinct than the blather of interested parties have made, who you'd be forgiven for thinking, seem still to consider the Hill Case one of the most significant in human history.
I occasionally get a little bit trifle whimsical with the details, but the gist I always remember clear as day....
My regards,
A
Meanwhile:
The matter of the fact is that some do experience *something* out of this world. And the second matter of fact is that our "modern" world doesn't sit well with just "something". And the third matter of fact is that at a certain level we are no longer really individuals in this wide world but commonplace components of a larger system: it then all boils down to the "fringe" of "society" against the big "normal" world. And who is the normal world? Commonplace people who scamper behind its token for commonplace existence: anything else that is not common and out of this world is perceived as a menace to a normal "peace of mind". The fourth matter of fact is that individuals are not actually allowed to experience anything out of this world (and proof can very well be attested from this very forum). If individuals do experience anything out of the norm it will surely be swept under the rug -- or juxtaposed against and identified as commonplace abnormalities. Hey, commonplace people oh so need to keep their wits in check: mustn't be lured away by the non-normal experience. Bah.
Novacane:
Bring on the aliens. Welcome to planet Earth space brothers. We've been expecting you. Please accept a friendly tour of our current president's White House. If we don't see you again after the tour........Good luck.
An attitude designed to impress one's neighbors here in the circus but has hardly registered at all with -them-.
The matter of the fact is that some do experience *something* out of this world. And the second matter of fact is that our "modern" world doesn't sit well with just "something". And the third matter of fact is that at a certain level we are no longer really individuals in this wide world but commonplace components of a larger system: it then all boils down to the "fringe" of "society" against the big "normal" world. And who is the normal world? Commonplace people who scamper behind its token for commonplace existence: anything else that is not common and out of this world is perceived as a menace to a normal "peace of mind". The fourth matter of fact is that individuals are not actually allowed to experience anything out of this world (and proof can very well be attested from this very forum). If individuals do experience anything out of the norm it will surely be swept under the rug -- or juxtaposed against and identified as commonplace abnormalities. Hey, commonplace people oh so need to keep their wits in check: mustn't be lured away by the non-normal experience. Bah.
Novacane:
Bring on the aliens. Welcome to planet Earth space brothers. We've been expecting you. Please accept a friendly tour of our current president's White House. If we don't see you again after the tour........Good luck.
----------------------------------
An attitude designed to impress one's neighbors here in the circus but has hardly registered at all with -them-.
M
Mr Anonymous
Guest
Meanwhile said:
Why, Meanwhile. Y'took the very syllables right out of my mouth.
Whoa, Nelly! Who'dve thunk we'd live to see the day, eh?
Mr Anonymous said:Why, Meanwhile. Y'took the very syllables right out of my mouth.
Whoa, Nelly! Who'dve thunk we'd live to see the day, eh?
100 million years ago if you were to land here on planet Earth, who would be the aliens? Take me to your leader......Right?
M
Mr Anonymous
Guest
Possibly. Indeed, possibly so....
Personally though, I'd be holding out for the prospect of such as the same doing as you describe and in the process becoming something large, carnivorous and very, very fasts, lunch.
We can, as they say, but dare to dream.....
Personally though, I'd be holding out for the prospect of such as the same doing as you describe and in the process becoming something large, carnivorous and very, very fasts, lunch.
We can, as they say, but dare to dream.....
nor do I care
quote: Why, Meanwhile. Y'took the very syllables right out of my mouth.
I wasn't hoping to reflect your own sentiments about me personally but merely stating how I feel towards those whom you alluded to yourself: they tap into the UFO/alien phenomenon and because they do and make sure you all hear them loud and clear and make a circus out of everything that they alone also represent...
me.
That's neither matter nor fact, my friend. The term "out of this world" is an expression, not meant to be taken literally. I am not sure exactly how you mean it here, but I'm assuming that you mean it in the sense of "from another world", and if that's the case, you're clearly off your rocker.
But if you mean it figuratively, like it is meant to be used, then you're absolutely correct, except for the fact that these so-called "out of these world" experiences can easily be attributed to normal, everyday things. Like sleep paralysis, for example; UFO abductees claims bear an extremely close resemblance to the effects of this occurance. Unfortunately, it's up to the person who's had these "out of this world" experiences to do the research, and find out for themselves what really happened.
Of course their claims of aliens and spaceships and anal probes aren't going to sit well with this "normal world" you speak of...aliens and spaceships and anal probes aren't exactly the status quo, and to further that, we've never even proven that aliens are coming here in their spaceships and doing anal probes! I mean, you sound as if these people are martyrs, when in fact, any alienation (no pun intended) or harm that has been brought upon themselves is self-inflicted. It doesn't take much to research the roots of these events, because they've all been studied to the ends of the earth and back. If you think you've been abducted, or seen a ghost, you ain't the first one. Go find out what happened.
Again, it is simply that there is the sudden jump to aliens and demons and spirits and ghosts, and honestly there are dozens of legitimate answers to their questions that do not in any way, shape, or form involve the supernatural.
The reason these people find themselves on the butt-end of jokes and on the recieving end of taunts is because they refuse to see the forrest for the trees. They will not by any means accept a answer that does not involve something extraordinary, no matter how clearly the facts are presented to them. It's this narrow-mindedness that results in people like myself calling people like them "kooks"! It's crude, it's crass, but it's not exactly an unfair estimation. How you can be handed the answer to your question and disregard it because it's disappointing, or completely un-fantastic is a completely idiotic way to approach your experience.
It isn't being "swept under the rug", my friend. When someone presents a clear case and talks about their experience, or other's experience, the more intelligent members of this community do their best to offer up logical, tested explanations. 9 times out of 10, the person on the recieving end of this information will lose their mind and claim that we are all just a part of the lie, covering up things out of fear, and ignorance. Well, buddy, I'm sorry, but if that reaction doesn't spell ignorance, I don't know what does.
It's the logical explanations that are swept under the rug in this forum. And it's done by the likes of you and those who refuse to hear the truth because it isn't sexy enough. I find it hillarious that the people who complain about the government ignoring facts and hiding the truth are the very people who are the most guilty of it. People who believe in these supernatural things are the ones who blindly disregard the facts for the sake of the fantastic, and are the ones who are the most narrow-minded folks you can find.
Well, "they" have all the information in front of them. It's up to them to decide if they're going to believe the truth, or continue to live in this world of idiocy, all the while wondering why everyone is laughing at them.
JD
M
Mr Anonymous
Guest
Meanwhile said:
Meanwhile, that sentance actually hurt my head. I'm not being funny, I mean really. Awwwww! Hurts....
Any chance of jacking that down a notch so a plodder like me can follow you?
M
Mr Anonymous
Guest
So basically, you're saying: there remain other types of abduction experience, of which you consider yourself to have experience of, which don't correspond to cases such as that of the Hills, yet nevertheless remain abduction experiences...
Is this essentially correct?
Basically, Hill type scenarios and the like are not the only Abduction Fruit....
Care to fill us in or have I gotten this all horribly, horribly wrong?
Is this essentially correct?
Basically, Hill type scenarios and the like are not the only Abduction Fruit....
Care to fill us in or have I gotten this all horribly, horribly wrong?
Meanwhile said:
Wonderful. He buries me in his first paragraph.JDawg said:
You assume that a non-mainstream abductee has the energy, the scholastic detached interest, the peeing-in-my-pants-can't-wait excitement to do their "research" with vigor and understanding. "Properly done research," no doubt. But what exactly does "research" entail? Never mind what others have experienced or "know". Never mind the counter arguments. Never mind the theories and the explanations and the science of psychology. Never mind religion. Never mind the alien types, whether they're grey or blue. Never mind terrestrial interest groups like the government or the air force or their space programs. Never mind all that.JDawg said:
What's left?
Just one thing.
The experience.
And the many other ethereal experiences that only echo consciously as their already blurry impressions flow out into a normal, more prominent and conventional head space, diluting themselves in the process, leaving a residue, until next time. Next time... this time... that time... It was different then. Why the difference?
That's how I do my research.
M
Mr Anonymous
Guest
Well, that last would be actually what I was simply asking you to explain, in you're own words obviously, but nevertheless still in terms of words another individual such as myself can actually understand.
I'm actually not interested in attempting to summarise you - I'd just simply like your assistance in making you're actual point of view less, shall we say, opaque as I'm currently finding it to be.
I have no idea what your experiences are - cut the man some slack and indulge him, please....
I have to go now, but I will be back presently.
I'm actually not interested in attempting to summarise you - I'd just simply like your assistance in making you're actual point of view less, shall we say, opaque as I'm currently finding it to be.
I have no idea what your experiences are - cut the man some slack and indulge him, please....
I have to go now, but I will be back presently.