Bells:
How do you know this was not a one off event?
I don't. But given that we haven't seen any evidence to the contrary, I think it's reasonable to assume that this was indeed a one off event. Innocent until proven guilty... isn't that a cliche in the legal profession?
After all, if as you say parents snap when stressed and should be absolved of responsibility for their actions in such instances,
I never said that. A parent is always responsible for their actions. But to deny a parent the custody of their child after losing their temper and subjecting their child to verbal abuse is extreme. Perhaps you had fantastic parents, and perhaps you are an incredibly patient individual, but many people are not. Especially when dealing with children, during a messy divorce and custody battle.
why did the judge deny him custody of the child? Don't you think other things would have come into play?
Now you're conjecturing. For all we know, the judge could have been an ignorant asshole. Or he could have had a very good reason. However, from what I've seen, the spearhead of attempting to deny custody is this 2 minute tape of verbal abuse. And to be honest, that's not nearly enough to deny a father (or a mother), the right to raise their child. Show me systematic abuse, and I'll say different.
Maybe you should consider why she does not accept his calls. Maybe this is not a one off occurence. Maybe she did not turn her phone on for a reason. And after listening to the message he left on her message bank, I can understand why she might have not turned the phone on.
Again, we are speculating. If the father did indeed talk like that to his daughter all the time, I'd think we'd have more than just one recording!
Either way, its clear that he goes out of his way, almost ritualistically, to call his daughter for a chat. If she continually refuses to pick up on the pre-arranged time, it's no big surprise that he's pissed. It's rude, it's thoughtless.
If that is the case, as an adult, he should have the intelligence to realise that it is not the child's fault when such a thing happens.
Of course he 'should'. But parents raise their child as they 'should'. EVERY parent loses their temper at some stage during child rearing, and this often results in verbal abuse. They regret it, apologize, and move on. Sending Child Protection to break down the door and take away their kids is ridiculous. I'm willing to bet that when you raise your own children, you'll have regrets about some of your dealings them.
Hell, I don't have kids, and I have many regrets about the way I've talked to people in the past.
And to blame the child and abuse her for it does constitute abuse.
Of course its abuse. I've never denied this. A mother who tells her daughter that he's an ungrateful shit in a moment of rage is engaging in verbal abuse. A girlfriend who tells her boyfriend that he's a selfish fuck is also engaging in verbal abuse.
Do you think that the authorities should meddle in every instance of verbal abuse? Or perhaps the injured parties should try to resolve their differences without litigation?
But lets look at the issue of poisoning a child's mind against the non-custodial parent.
I won't point out the obvious.
It's quite generous and decent of you not to point the obvious. I'm always flattered when someone acknowledges my perceptiveness.
The father does insult the girl's mother in his rage. I'm not sure if I'd classify that as 'poisoning her mind', given that most likely wasn't his intention. However, you're welcome to think that it is an example of 'mind poisoning', as it just further vindicates my claim that such an event occurs frequently in custodial battles.
After that call, can you really blame her?
Not really. I've already stated how unfortunate this incident is. It's also a pity that people go running to judges in an order to sever contact, instead of working to re-establish a bond. If I were the mother, I'd try to mediate a stronger relationship with my daughter and father, instead of being vindictive. Oh, but I forgot... it's a divorce and custody battle. I guess you'd expect the mother to try and pry her daughter away from her father.
Only this time, it was the parent throwing the tantrum. Scary thought isn't it?
Scary, yes. Abnormal? No. Extreme enough to deny custody? Definitely not.
Now lets imagine you are in a supermarket and you see a man yelling at his daughter and calling her a "thoughtless pig" and telling her "You don't have the brains or the decency as a human being,"... Would you take pity on that individual as you appear to have done with Baldwin?
It depends on what background information I have. If I observed that child throwing a tantrum because her father refused to purchase her chocolate despite her constant badgering, I would feel sympathetic for the father. It's not the proper response, but I can understand the frustration. Especially if such a thing is a common occurence. I've seen kids throw tantrums and squeal in public, and it literally makes me wince.
Is it because he is famous that is causing you to offer him your pity?
Don't be absurd. I didn't know who he was prior to viewing this thread.
Is it because he is undergoing a bitter divorce and custody battle?
Yes. Not only is he undergoing a bitter divorce and custody battle, he is also falling out of contact with his daughter, despite making an effort to stay in contact. He 'drops whatever he is doing' to make that call. To talk to his daughter. To find that she's not picking up.
I will not insult your intelligence by reminding you that many people go through similar custody and divorces and they do not abuse their children in such a way.
Thank you for not insulting my intelligence, Bells. You're such a polite, well-spoken individual. I could never imagine you leveling veiled insults at me, so I'll make the assumption that you're being sincere.
You're quite right that many couples do undergo custody battles. And quite frequently, there is poisoning of the child's mind by both parties. And as a result, there there is frustration on both sides, especially the side which loses contact.
The only person who deserves any pity in this sad and sorry situation is the little girl.
I pity ANY party in a divorce. I pity ANY party in a breakdown of family life, except in exceptional circumstances. A minority of divorces are quick and relatively painless. The majority are messy and excruciating.
