Perhaps. But only if you believe that society has the right to tell everyone what they can and cannot do every waking moment of the day.
Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do
- Thread starter StrangerInAStrangeLand
- Start date
Perhaps. But only if you believe that society has the right to tell everyone what they can and cannot do every waking moment of the day.
Yes, and see how messed up it is.
Society is messed up, but it would be a helluva lot worse without those laws and rules and standards.
And I think that's just the point of it all ...people paying attention to other people's actions. Just imagine what it would be like if people didn't do that.
So, see, it IS other people's business! ...whether you like it or not.
Baron Max
There is a huge difference between paying attention to other people's actions when those actions harm nonconsenting people or their property & when they don't.
THAT is the point of it all.
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THAT is the point of it all.
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What you consider "harm" might be quite different to what others feel about it. A society might consider "inappropriate acts" as harmful, while you don't. And in that case, society as a whole has the right to deem it "harmful".
Baron Max
Actually we have seen many societies whithout some of the harsh standards we have here, and guess what, for some reason they have LESS problems.
I'm fine with them paying attention when there is nonconsent or radical harm even with consent. But the rest of the time get lost.
For example as a single guy what would be so terribly wrong with me visiting a hooker. If it wasn;t the illegality of it, she would have no pimp and there fore not be a victim of violence taking away your only objection. So in essence society paying attention is what is causing the problem
Name a few of those societies, please.
And just who decides that "consent"?
I present the case of battered wives who, when approached by the police, will recant their complaints against the husband ....then a time later, she's found dead in her home. She told the police that she wasn't being mistreated, that everything was fine, that her husband "just got a little rough, that's all."
I present the case of abused children. And by changing just a few things, it's exactly the same as the battered wives' tale.
Societies aren't prefect. But to use one or two examples isn't enough to make the claim that everything that society does is fucked up.
A society is a group of people who are simply trying to live together as best they can with limited abilities to do it. We've made laws and rules that give criminals every opportunity to freely commit their crimes ...the battered wife issue is an example of that. Ditto for the abused child. There is no crime until there's a victim ....and then it's too late for that victim!
Baron Max
The netherlands. With decriminalized drug use and prostitution the Netherlands doesn;t have nearly the problem even the best areas of the US has.
So you are using a strawman, a particularly vulgar and scary strawman. As a victim of child abuse I find your argument patently offensive. There is a world of difference between an adult beating their spouse and children and one smoking half a joint or visiting a prostitute. The first is actively harming another sentient in order to harm them, the others are purely recreational activities that hurt nobody when they are legal.
But we are not asking for loosening of assualt and battery laws. We are asking for revocation of the victimless crime laws. And believe me there is a lot of what our repressed society has deemed crime that is largely victimless.
True. But they also don't have nearly the number of people, nor the number of different cultures and races and religions and ...most everything else!
Interesting, however, that you could only name one lousy nation!?
And, by the way, I've read some recent articles in paper that the Netherlands isn't so damned happy with the drug and prostitution issues. Check it out, you might be surprised.
Then you must have realized that your ideas of "consent" are often misunderstood in the real world. Abused kids are very reluctant to tell on their abusers. Since you were one, is that why the comment was so offensive to you?
No, not if the wife or child has told the cops that nothing is wrong ...that's giving consent, and there's nothing the cops can do. (Maybe with the kid, but even so, it's a very touchy legal issue. And as an abused child, you must be quite aware of the legal entanglements.)
Remember the issue of consent? Touchy, ain't it?
When the battered wife refuses to press criminal charges, she's giving her consent to be beaten.
Victimless crimes? If a person does something, it often causes their loved ones "pain and anquish". Is that victimless?
Oh, really? Name a few of those "..largely victimless" crimes. You're looking only on the surface ...check a little bit under the hood, you might find tons of victims. But you don't want to do that, do you????
Baron Max
You only asked me for one and I gave one. A successful one no less. and if you had actually read any articles you would have posted them. Besides not perfectly happy and having an epidemic are two entirely different things.
Actually, abused are very willing to tell on abusers, however we often love the ones who do the abusing. Remember only the most insane of humans beats people all the time. Ninety percent of the time my father was better than every other one on the block, it was that other ten that was hell. People are reluctant to press charges becuase it just sends the probalem away for a few days. Historically courts throw people in jail rather than help them with their problems. Like my father, he had a severe chemical imbalance that sent him into blind rages. Jail time would have done him no good. Therapy, and later a stroke completely solved his issues.
Don;t know too many abuse laws do you? Sorry, but I have worked with these people and the cops at times. If a PO suspects domestic violencce he has the right to remove a person from the home for at least the night. Very little evidence is needed and it would not matter what spouse or kids say.
Look, We're not talking about cases where it's one person on another, but what a person chooses to do to themselves. Dragging in these other cases to make your point just proves you have no idea what you are talking about.
Or she might be trying to make sure her family has a roof over their head and food on their table. Abusive spouses are often among the working poor. Where both incomes are needed just to keep people off the streets. Asking her to make her family starve so her husband rots in jail and becomes worse instead of better is sheer stupidity in the first place.
The pain and anguish of many things comes form this forced prohibition. If drugs were as legal as alcohol then drug abuse would be openly treatable as alcoholism. While not ideal, it's better than impowering and enriching a stratum of criminal low lives while having a worse problem.
Recreational drug use
Recreational sex with professionals
Yes to each there can be victims, but no more and probably far less than our current situation.
Yep, for a night or two. Then what? Most often, the abused is sent right back into the abusive home because of our laws of freedom, etc. And then it's often worse because of the cops involvement, isn't it?
'Nuff said.
Baron Max
Actually it is the abuser who is often taken from the situation. and yes becuase of habeas Corpus is often put right back out the street. There are shelters for abused spouses and children, but they are inadequate for the task and never adress the real problem. After all the abuser will just find a new victim. However if we put the abuser through psychiatric therapy and often the abuse completely stops. Not that am I saying we should let them off easily, but any course of action involving mental or physical abuser should include therapy. Many of them were victims themsleves and know no better way.
So you agree, our victim count would go down drastically with the legalization and regulization of the 'crimes' of Drug use and Proostitution. Immediately we would see the disappearance of drug dealers, pimps, crack houses and many other dangers to society. Yes you would still have families that are hurt by drug abuse and philandering men, but honestly even making it illegal didn;t help a single one of those families.
No, I didn't say that and you know I didn't.
Drugs and prostitution have always had unintended victims. There ain't no way you can get around it ...legal or illegal, there will always be victims. But the society wants drugs to be illegal, and the society makes the laws.
Baron Max
Society also wants drunk drivers to be prosecuted harshly for their recklessness. Why is it OK for druggies and not for drunks?
You are the biggest hypocrite in this place, which is an incredible statement.
Sciencelovah
Registered Senior Member
If I were you, I'd call the cops. Because if someone screaming for help and:
- apparently this person needs help, the cops can handle that
- if they are just enjoying sex, the cops visitation possibly can make them less louder, because such screaming is a bit offensive, especially if you are single, don't you think?
And it's really, really fun!
Y'all think that I have to maintain some consistency in order to discuss differing points of discussions. Pretty amazing of y'all, ain't it?
Baron Max