Not according to the professional medical literature. We must agree to disagree.slotty said:Yup, thats what happens.
Not according to the professional medical literature. We must agree to disagree.slotty said:Yup, thats what happens.
In most cases, epidemic KS causes widespread lesions that erupt at many places on the body soon after AIDS develops. Lesions of epidemic KS may arise on the skin and the mouth and may affect the lymph nodes and other organs, usually the gastrointestinal tract, lung, liver, and spleen. In contrast, classic KS usually involves only one or a few areas of skin, most often the lower legs. At the time of diagnosis, some people with epidemic KS experience no symptoms, especially if their only lesions develop on the skin. However, many -- even those with no skin lesions -- will have swollen lymph nodes, unexplained fever, or weight loss. Eventually, in almost all cases, epidemic KS spreads throughout the body. Extensive lung involvement by KS can be fatal. More often, however, patients die of other AIDS-related complications such as infections. This is rare because modern treatment of the HIV infection usually prevents the development of advanced Kaposi sarcoma.
American Cancer Society
When symptoms begin to appear, they can appear in many different forms. In addition, later stage patients may experience a unique type of infection, which may include Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (PCP), a type of pneumonia, Kaposi’s sarcoma, a type of skin cancer, and cytomegalovirus (CMV)?all diseases that can eventually cause death. The global resurgence of tuberculosis in developing nations has been also associated with the spread of HIV/AIDS. Furthermore, there are a growing number of patients who have become co-infected with HIV and Hepatitis C in developed countries such as the United States.
Immune Response Corporation
I am very sorry. I worked in an AIDS community in the United States not in Latin America. I worked in the AIDS community about ten years ago. I am about four thousand miles from the nearest medical library and not able at this time to travel to one, though I would like to do so when I can and might yet. Nor do I have the thousands of dollars necessary to do a literature search over the internet and even then it would be incomplete. Your citations are not from professional medical journals. They are from material distributed for the general public. I am refering to information in the professional medical journal literature used by doctors and nurses involved with AIDS patients. I am not refering to information supplied to the general public. I will be very happy to supply you with precise citations from the professional medical literature when I am able to travel to a medical library.tiassa said:Perhaps we might compel our friend to actually cite some of the "professional medical literature":
• If you read the medical literature as of ten years ago, you will read that AIDS patients die of the symptoms that I outlined here and in no other way. Mmm-hmm. Ten years ago, you say. From what country?
• I am citing the professional medical literature used by doctors and nurses who work in the field. No, actually, you're not. You are alluding to it, but not citing it. Hinting after it, but not even referring to it.
• If you want to see what is in the medical literature .... In this case, it would be helpful if you actually cited said literature.
• Subscriptons to professional medical journals cost money. Yes, and they're useless until you tell people which edition of which journals to spend on. You keep mentioning "professional medical literature", yet as far as any of us can tell, you have no articles to offer us. We can't go back and review said literature for ourselves, because you're not offering any relevant information.
• Not according to the professional medical literature. What professional medical literature?
We're talking about information on AIDS circa 1985-95, obtained in Latin America?
In addition to considering the subsequent twenty years of medical research, we might also think of the scale of malpractice being visited on humanity if people like Slotty and Raithere are so grossly misinformed as to believe that HIV does not kill anyone directly.
If you have professional medical literature of reasonable repute asserting that a death caused by AIDS is caused by HIV, by all means post that reference, and we can all go look it up and marvel at how smart you are.
Short of that, there are schools across the United States, from elementary schools on up to medical schools, that need to be shut down because they, too, teach concepts different from those you learned twenty years ago in Latin America. Even the American Cancer Society is "sold on the lie":
In fact, those are the sentences that raise the proverbial red flags about your topic post:
• ABOUT TWENTY YEARS AGO I WORKED IN A MALARIA LAB IN LATIN AMERICA ....
• SHE DISCRIBED THE SYMPTOMS OF DEATH BY AIDS AS FOLLOWS ....
• IT IS MY ABSOLUTE OPINION THAT PERSONS DIGNOSED AS HAVING AIDS, DIE OF CYANIDE AND ONLY OF CYANIDE.
"Death by AIDS," as people have attempted to point out, comes in many forms. Do patients in Latin America last long enough to die of heart failure after fighting cancer? Did they in 1985? Reconsider Raithere's offering about pneumonia, or the above citation regarding Kaposi's Sarcoma. Either condition can cause respiratory failure.
According to the Immune Response Corporation:
Or there's cytomegalovirus, which doesn't often kill; AIDS patients show symptoms of what is usually an ocular infection in the brain, lungs, spinal cord, bladder, and gastrointestinal tract. CMV is conneted, for instance, to polyradiculopathy (cadua equina syndrome), which "is often fatal unless it is treated very promptly".
The larger point being that none of this is news to those of us who have been taught the lie. You, however, might find it surprising inasmuch as you've been given the superior education offered by Latin American medical institutions. And since we knew in 1985 or so everything we ever needed to know about HIV, we can rest assured that you're not reciting obsolete assertions. Thank you for setting us straight, although the professional references might be worthwhile so we can spread the gospel. In the meantime, someone might want to let the researchers know that there's nothing left to do so they can go home to their families and put this ugly mess behind them.
Maybe Bush can break out the aircraft carrier again to sign the surrender.
Of course, you could always be wrong ... no, that's unthinkable, isn't it? After all, you have a horde of professional medical literature to back you up, even though you won't tell us what it is. Right?
____________________
Notes:
American Cancer Society. "What Is Kaposi Sarcoma?" Cancer.org. See http://www.cancer.org/docroot/cri/content/cri_2_4_1x_what_is_kaposis_sarcoma_21.asp?sitearea=cri
Immune Response Corporation. "HIV's Effect on the Body". IMNR.com. See http://www.imnr.com/hiv/hivaids_effect.htm
AIDSmap. "Cytomegalovirus - overview". AIDSmap.com. See http://www.aidsmap.com/en/docs/4F473103-4F2E-45D5-A5C5-6C8AA6F48175.asp
I will not try to disagree with you but here is something from the popular literature that I often sing to myself when I think of the AIDS situation. (Please forgive me if these lyrics offend.) These are the official lyrics from Joni Mitchell's Blue:slotty said:Aids itself does not kill, it is the effect it has on the immune system that causes a secondary infection to kill. If Aids lowers your bodys defense mechanisim to the extent that a common cold can kill, then its the cold that actually kills. Of course if the victim did'nt have aids then the vast majority would survive a cold. I was merely pionting out that the original poster was wrong. In my line of work i have been unfortunate enough to meet several poor sods with aids- they all died of secondary infections. :m:
I did not say it was a professional medical journal, I said it was a professional reference, which it is.Erring Flatley said:The Merck Manual is a commercial publication for the general public. It is published by a drug company. It is not a professional medical journal.
Indian J Med Res. 2004 Oct;120(4):277-89.
Epidemiology of HIV
TB in Asia. Narain JP, Lo YR.
"Tuberculosis (TB) has, for centuries, continued to remain a public health problem of enormous importance, particularly in the developing world, taking a heavy toll of those at their prime of life. The emergence of human immunodeficiency virus (HIV infection) and its close association with TB poses an even greater challenge to the health systems in general and TB programmes in particular, in African and Asian countries. HIV is considered to be the most potent risk factor for progression to active TB among those infected both with TB and HIV; as a result, TB is the most common life threatening opportunistic infection associated with HIV, and biggest cause of death among patients with acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS)."
MMW Fortschr Med. 2004 Apr 26;146 Spec No 1:34-6, 38.
[Opportunistic diseases--current aspects in 2004]
Marquardt T, Jablonowski H.
Medizinischen Klinik, Klinikum Salzgitter GmbH.
Opportunistic diseases (OD) are still the most common cause of death in patients with HIV infection. The occurrence of OD is the most important single prognostic factor for survival. While in the pre-HAART era, many patients died of the wasting syndrome, today, ever more patients suffer from obesity and its consequences. Tuberculosis is widespread among those affected with HICV, and when treating it must be remembered that tuberculostatic agents and antiretroviral drugs interact with cytochrome P450. Until recently, the combination of rifampicin with protease inhibitors and non-nucleoside reverse-transcriptase inhibitors was contraindicated. Now, however, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) has updated its recommendations for treatment.
Pathol Res Pract. 2003;199(12):811-4.
Autopsy findings in AIDS patients from a reference hospital in Brazil: analysis of 92 cases.
Cury PM, Pulido CF, Furtado VM, da Palma FM.
Department of Pathology, Faculdade de Medicina de Sao Jose do Rio Preto-SP, Brazil. pmcury@famerp.br
The aim of this work was to evaluate the opportunistic diseases and the cause of death of AIDS patients who were submitted to autopsy. We included all AIDS patients submitted to autopsy at a reference hospital of a medical school in Sao Paulo, Brazil, during the period of 1993 to 2000. Out of 1,478 autopsy cases in this period, 92 patients (6.22%) had the previously confirmed diagnosis of AIDS. Sixty-nine patients (75%) were men ranging in age from 19 to 68 years (mean 34.8). Eighty-five patients (92.4%) died due to infectious diseases, while only two died of neoplasia. Forty-four (48%) patients died from pulmonary infection, 14 (15%) from sepsis, 14 (15%) from disseminated mycobacteriosis, and six (7%) from Central Nervous System (CNS) infection. The opportunistic diseases found were mycobacteriosis (n = 25), Pneumocystis carinii infection (n = 16), Cytomegalovirus infection (n = 17), toxoplasmosis (8 CNS cases), candida sp infection (n = 12), histoplasmosis (n = 5), cryptococcus (n = 4), and one case of blastomycosis in the lung. Most of our AIDS patients are dying of infectious and opportunistic diseases that are not always diagnosed during their lifetime.
Erring Flatley said:
Your citations are not from professional medical journals. They are from material distributed for the general public. I am refering to information in the professional medical journal literature used by doctors and nurses involved with AIDS patients.
Tiassa said:In addition to considering the subsequent twenty years of medical research, we might also think of the scale of malpractice being visited on humanity if people like Slotty and Raithere are so grossly misinformed as to believe that HIV does not kill anyone directly.
If you have professional medical literature of reasonable repute asserting that a death caused by AIDS is caused by HIV, by all means post that reference, and we can all go look it up and marvel at how smart you are.
Short of that, there are schools across the United States, from elementary schools on up to medical schools, that need to be shut down because they, too, teach concepts different from those you learned twenty years ago in Latin America. Even the American Cancer Society is "sold on the lie":