Aids

[Erring Flatley]

ABOUT TWENTY YEARS AGO I WORKED IN A MALARIA LAB IN LATIN AMERICA. I WAS FORCED TO LEAVE WHEN I REFUSED TO FORGE LAB RESULTS TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE MALARIA WAS NOT A PROBLEM IN THAT COUNTRY. ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO I DID VOLUNTEER WORK IN THE AIDS COMMUNITY. I WORRIED WHAT I WOULD FIND THERE TOO.
WHILE THERE I TOOK A 28 HOUR INTENSIVE COURSE ON AIDS. ONE OF THE SPEAKERS WAS A HOSPICE NURSE. SHE DISCRIBED THE SYMPTOMS OF DEATH BY AIDS AS FOLLOWS: THE PATIENT WILL BE VERY THIRSTY AND IF ALLOWED WATER WOULD PRODUCE LARGE AMOUNT OF URINE. SHE SAID IT WAS “BOTH KIND AND NATURAL” TO WITH HOLD WATER FROM THE PATIENT. THE PATIENT WOULD THEN BEGIN TO TURN BLUE BEGINNING AT THE EXTREMITIES, THE FINGERTIPS AND TOES, AND THE BLUENESS WOULD WORK ITS WAY INWARD. (THE BLUENESS IS A WAXY NAVY COLOR LIKE THAT OF THE VEINS.) THE PATIENT WOULD THEN BEGIN TO BREATH HEAVILY, AND AS DEATH APPROACHED, GASP FOR AIR. FINALLY THE PATIENT WOULD DIE, OFTEN WITH THE HEAD LEANING BACK AND THE MOUTH GAPING OPEN. WE WERE TOLD TO REPOSITION THE HEAD AND MOUTH IN A MORE NATURAL POSITION USING A TOWEL TO HOLD THE JAW BEFORE RIGOR MORTIS SET IN. SHE EXPLAINED AIDS PATIENTS ALWAYS DIE IN THE HOSPITAL AND ALWAYS BY THESE SYMPTOMS.
THE DESCRIPTION RANG A BELL TO ME AND I WENT TO THE MEDICAL LIBRARY TO FIND OUT MORE. YES, THE MEDICAL LITERATURE DESCRIBED AIDS DEATH AS SHE DESCRIBED IT. BUT MY HUNCH LED ME ON AND I LOOKED UP THE SYMPTOMS OF DEATH BY CYANIDE. THE SYMPTOMS OF DEATH BY CYANIDE ARE THE SAME, IDENTICAL, AS THE DESCRIBED SYMPTOMS OF DEATH BY AIDS. (“CYANIDE” COMES FROM THE GREEK WORD FOR BLUE.)
I WORKED IN THE AIDS COMMUNITY FOR FIVE MONTHS. I MADE FRIENDS WITH THE PATIENTS, VISITED IN THE HOSPITAL, AND FREQUENTED WITH THE STAFF AND NURSES. IT IS MY ABSOLUTE OPINION THAT PERSONS DIGNOSED AS HAVING AIDS, DIE OF CYANIDE AND ONLY OF CYANIDE.

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

There are no set symptoms of AIDs. It can be any normal ailment, out of control.
If an aids victims gets dysentry, for example, they will litterally shit themself to death.
Let's see your cyanide do that.

 

[Xev]

I like the blue font. It's appropriate.

 

[Athelwulf]

DO ME A FAVOR ERRING. GO BACK TO YER POST AND EDIT IT SO IT'S NOT ALL CAPS LIKE THIS.

 

[Undecided]

How does it explain that more then 40 million people have it, and in the slums of Africa? Wouldn't there be huge profits for companies that produce this cyanide? Who administers this, and how? I find it VERY hard to believe. Or is there some natural form of cyanide that the AIDS creates in the human body?

 

[Erring Flatley]

DO ME A FAVOR ERRING. GO BACK TO YER POST AND EDIT IT SO IT'S NOT ALL CAPS LIKE THIS.

The all caps is an artifact of transfering it from Windows Office. It was writen in large and small caps, but this program does not support that.

 

[Erring Flatley]

How does it explain that more then 40 million people have it, and in the slums of Africa? Wouldn't there be huge profits for companies that produce this cyanide? Who administers this, and how? I find it VERY hard to believe. Or is there some natural form of cyanide that the AIDS creates in the human body?

I am not joking. As one AIDS patient put it, he had a choice of working in the cabinet factory as his father did or being an AIDS patient. As an AIDS patient he had a total monthly income of about $1500. He lived in a luxury condo at first, but then moved to a beach house. He did not have to work. He dined on steak or in restaurants. He had all the friends he wanted including a girl friend with the diagnosis with whom he slept. He had me, as an AIDS worker, to do him almost any favor he asked, though we mostly spent time talking. He told me, "The way I look at it we all die sometime." He did not want to spend his life working in the cabinet factory. He knew he might die early but he did not want to spend his life as his father did. At that time AIDS patients lived for some time. I knew one patient that had had his diagnosis for eight years and still showed no symptoms. He had a choice. Most AIDS patients do.

 

[Erring Flatley]

There are no set symptoms of AIDs. It can be any normal ailment, out of control.
If an aids victims gets dysentry, for example, they will litterally shit themself to death.
Let's see your cyanide do that.

Dysentery is not a symptom of AIDS. I disagree with you. You may disagree with me.

 

[SpyMoose]

They told us in school that because AIDS attacks the immune system no one dies of AIDS. Whatever infection runs rampant after one develops AIDS is what kills them. Using that model I don't find flaw with Lou's ascertain that dysentery could kill an AIDS patient.

What exactly are you trying to convince people of in this thread? That you have no idea what AIDS is? Or that you think AIDS patients are being ******** while they are in hospital? Or were you un-aware of how immediately deadly cyanide is and proposing that someone is causing the so-called AIDS epidemic by way of poisoning?

Either way may I be the first to lash out and call you a tard.

Note: For some reason the sciforums is censoring the word p-o-i-s-o-n-e-d

 

[Tiassa]

Note: For some reason the sciforums is censoring the word p-o-i-s-o-n-e-d

This is a longstanding policy at Sciforums, the origin of which is beyond my knowledge. Every couple of months somebody notices, but as I recall, from the first it came up, no explanation has ever been given. Were I to don my green hat for this, I would probably use the line that it's a reminder that more drastic measures can be taken. Poisoned is a rarely-used word compared to most of the discussion going on around, and in fact comes up in the case of bitter political discussion (e.g. poisoned well, &c.) more than in general.

It serves a purpose in reminding that such direct censorship is possible, creates a condition where the only routes around require deliberation, so that there's no question about one's motive, and makes such workings actionable offenses should we institute such a policy. Because it's not nearly as vital a word in any offensive sense, it comes up statistically less-often than fuck or other such words, and has a side-effect of reminding people in a quirky way at less than vital moments. For instance, the context of your post puts this odd reminder in a strange place, where it's not generally about to piss someone off into getting themselves banned for silly reasons in the heat of passion after discovering that their carefully-placed ****s and ***-hats get traded out for stars. There are some posters out there who just go nuts if we tamper with their ****s and ****s and giggles. A couple of them have taken the trip because of their response to censorship. The way I see it, taking away a curious word like poisoned is either an arcane joke or a conveniently clever way to state the obvious.

Nonetheless, I must reiterate that I am unaware of any official explanation, and would encourage people to not hold their breath waiting for one.

(Go, tell it on the mountain. Over the hills, and everywhere.)

 

[Erring Flatley]

They told us in school that because AIDS attacks the immune system no one dies of AIDS. Whatever infection runs rampant after one develops AIDS is what kills them. Using that model I don't find flaw with Lou's ascertain that dysentery could kill an AIDS patient.

What exactly are you trying to convince people of in this thread? That you have no idea what AIDS is? Or that you think AIDS patients are being ******** while they are in hospital? Or were you un-aware of how immediately deadly cyanide is and proposing that someone is causing the so-called AIDS epidemic by way of poisoning?

Either way may I be the first to lash out and call you a tard.

Note: For some reason the sciforums is censoring the word p-o-i-s-o-n-e-d

If you read the medical literature as of ten years ago, you will read that AIDS patients die of the symptoms that I outlined here and in no other way. At the moment I am in Alaska, 4,000 miles from the nearest medical library, so I cannot give you exact citations. It has been ten years since I left the AIDS community, so I do not know what is going on right now. I gave you an exact description of the situation as of ten years ago. When I was young I believed in an altruistic world, but I am much older now and I know the world is corrupt. I am sorry if this revelation bothers you. If we want an altruistic world, we must all work for it and that is what I am doing here. As for the specific effects of cyanide, the symptoms vary with the dose. In a small dose, the person is very thirsty and urinates as fast as he can drink the water. The kidneys can successfully remove naturally occuring and low levels of cyanide. In fact it is somtimes a break down product of foods we eat or breath, specifically some aromatic compounds containing nitrogen. In unnaturally large doses it will kill a person almost instantly. Cyanide has the ability to pentrate through the tissues as fast as oxygen can. A large dose will kill a person in about ten seconds. According to all I was taught and read and experienced while in the community, disentery is not a sympton of AIDS and none of the patients I visited in the hospital or in their homes ever mentioned bowel problems. I disagree with you and you too may disagree with me.

 

[Raithere]

Aids does not kill people directly. It destroys the immune system and they succumb to a variety of secondary infections, anything from fungus to protozoa, bacteria and other viruses. The symptoms follow that of the secondary (opportunistic) infection. If there was indeed a pattern amongst the patients you were caring for the most likely explanation is that they were dying from the same opportunistic disease.

~Raithere

 

[Erring Flatley]

Aids does not kill people directly. It destroys the immune system and they succumb to a variety of secondary infections, anything from fungus to protozoa, bacteria and other viruses. The symptoms follow that of the secondary (opportunistic) infection. If there was indeed a pattern amongst the patients you were caring for the most likely explanation is that they were dying from the same opportunistic disease.

~Raithere

Symptoms do not follow those of secondary infections. I am citing the professional medical literature used by doctors and nurses who work in the field. This information is available only in medical libraries or from the medical professionals. I was trained as a professional AIDS worker. Once I learned how corrupt it was I left. I held these people in my arms as they approached death and I left so that I would not have to hold their hand as they died. I could not stop what was happening, so I left. AIDS patients die in the way I described. That is the only way they die. This information comes from the doctors and nurses who tend the patients, and medical literature they read for information. I am not citing information from popular sources intended for the general public. If you do not believe me, you may go read the medical literature. It is available in any medical library. Please note, I have not been in the field for ten years, and I cannot update myself because of my remote location. I speak as I knew the situation ten years ago. You may disagree with me. I disagree with you.

 

[SpyMoose]

When I was young I believed in an altruistic world, but I am much older now and I know the world is corrupt. I am sorry if this revelation bothers you.

I am intellectually aware that there is corruption in the world. Please enlighten me as to what form you believe it takes. You have failed to come across with anything other than innuendos, so please do tell us all if you are making an accusation against ... who? Doctors around the world? The government? Are you anthropomorphizing cyanide and suggesting it has tricked us into thinking it is AIDS? Are you anthropomorphizing AIDS and saying it is trying to trick us into thinking it is cyanide? Please describe what you think your yet to be confirmed findings about AIDS reveal. What is the corruption?

Ten years ago I was in grade school. I was eleven years old, and in health class I learned about what AIDS is. I recall a video in science class of cartoon viruses attacking cartoon T cells and letting other diseases run rampant. That is where I learned that AIDS does not kill people, the diseases it allows to infect an AIDS paitent are what kills him. Why do you think the perpetrators of your "corruption" would allow that to be taught in public schools if according to you they were printing cyanide symptoms as AIDS symptoms in medical literature?

What do you mean that you were in the "AIDS community"? Forgive me if this is out of line, but that doesn’t sound so specific, and the first thing that comes to my mind when reading your absurdly formatted text is that perhaps you are one of those HIV-is-not-the-AIDS-virus-so-lets-have-an-HIV+-orgy people.

 

[Asguard]

I thought medical journals were available online, atleast they are for breast canser. Why dont you put up a link backing up your argument?

edit to add, where is bbcboy when you need him?

 

[slotty]

Aids does not kill people directly. It destroys the immune system and they succumb to a variety of secondary infections, anything from fungus to protozoa, bacteria and other viruses. The symptoms follow that of the secondary (opportunistic) infection. If there was indeed a pattern amongst the patients you were caring for the most likely explanation is that they were dying from the same opportunistic disease.

~Raithere

Yup, thats what happens.

 

[Raithere]

Symptoms do not follow those of secondary infections.

How about we go to the Merck Manual (a professional reference)?

"The main symptoms of AIDS are those of the specific opportunistic infections and cancers that develop. HIV can also directly infect the brain, causing memory loss, weakness, difficulty walking, and difficulty in thinking and concentrating (dementia). In some people, HIV is probably directly responsible for AIDS wasting, which is a significant loss of weight with or without an obvious cause. Wasting in people with AIDS may also be caused by a series of infections or an untreated infection (such as tuberculosis) that persists. Kidney failure, which may be a direct effect of HIV, is more common in blacks than in whites." (emphasis mine)

AIDS patients die in the way I described. That is the only way they die.

And again from the Merck Manual.

"Usually, death is caused by the cumulative effects of wasting, dementia, opportunistic infections, or cancers."

Good enough?

I'm not saying that the people you were caring for did not all die in a similar fashion. But what you saw is not true for all AIDS patients.

~Raithere

P.S. I'm not entirely sure but I believe the symptoms you describe are also indicative of death caused by respiratory failure and people with AIDS often succumb to pneumonia from a variety of causes (I'm not entirely sure about the polyuria and polydipsia, if I can find a reference I will post it).

 

[Erring Flatley]

Why do you think the perpetrators of your "corruption" would allow that to be taught in public schools if according to you they were printing cyanide symptoms as AIDS symptoms in medical literature?

What do you mean that you were in the "AIDS community"?

I worked for a major foundation that directly helped persons with a diagnosis of AIDS. The general public does not read the medical literature, do they? If you want to see what is in the medical literature you must go to a medical library to read it. Medical literature is now available on line, but it often costs $25 or more per article. At that rate people do not read the medical literature. Some medical libraries charge admission for the public, but most do not. You can see the truth for yourself but you must go to a medical library to do it. It would cost you hundreds to thousands to get the literature over the internet.

 

[Erring Flatley]

I thought medical journals were available online, atleast they are for breast canser. Why dont you put up a link backing up your argument?

edit to add, where is bbcboy when you need him?

Subscriptons to professional medical journals cost money. One of the least expensive is the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). It costs $12 per article. If you want unrestricted access to professional medical literature at a resonable cost you must go to a medical library. (Clinical Breast Cancer Journal, a professional medical journal, charges $150 per year on line. It does not sell on a per article basis.)

 

[Erring Flatley]

How about we go to the Merck Manual (a professional reference)?

"The main symptoms of AIDS are those of the specific opportunistic infections and cancers that develop. HIV can also directly infect the brain, causing memory loss, weakness, difficulty walking, and difficulty in thinking and concentrating (dementia). In some people, HIV is probably directly responsible for AIDS wasting, which is a significant loss of weight with or without an obvious cause. Wasting in people with AIDS may also be caused by a series of infections or an untreated infection (such as tuberculosis) that persists. Kidney failure, which may be a direct effect of HIV, is more common in blacks than in whites." (emphasis mine)

And again from the Merck Manual.

"Usually, death is caused by the cumulative effects of wasting, dementia, opportunistic infections, or cancers."

Good enough?

I'm not saying that the people you were caring for did not all die in a similar fashion. But what you saw is not true for all AIDS patients.

~Raithere

P.S. I'm not entirely sure but I believe the symptoms you describe are also indicative of death caused by respiratory failure and people with AIDS often succumb to pneumonia from a variety of causes (I'm not entirely sure about the polyuria and polydipsia, if I can find a reference I will post it).

The Merck Manual is a commercial publication for the general public. It is published by a drug company. It is not a professional medical journal. If you want to read the professional medical journals either you must pay for them, a very expensive prospect for a full journal search (see above), or you must visit a medical library. Medical libraries are usually associated with medical schools or major hospitals. Please, you may visit one. There you may ask the librarian for help if you do not know how to do a literature search.