Age restrictions: Legitimate or discriminatory?
- Thread starter Mrs.Lucysnow
- Start date
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Since when is south africa a 'war zone'? The next world cup is going to be in South Africa. Learn a little bit of what is going on in the world before you speak up and look stupid.
South Africa receives thousands of tourists every year.
http://www.southafrica.net/sat/content/en/za/home
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Ok, I may have worded that wrong. There are acts of violence going on in South Africa.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
The parents are probably sincere about not holding the university responsible. But one of the biggest problems in America today is a glut of lawyers; there isn't enough honorable work for all of them. There are lawyers who employ an army of people who search the news and check with their own contacts, looking for tragedies like this. Then they descend on the parents and tell them it's their duty as responsible parents, as good citizens, and as supporters of that university, to make it pay for its mistake. That way it will be more careful next time. That way they'll have enough money to start a charitable foundation in their son's name. Oh yeah, and incidentally the lawyer will get a third of the money. Crap like this happens all the time.
Sometimes bad things happen and it's nobody's fault. The rogue elephants got up that day and decided to head off in a different direction, twenty miles from their usual territory. Or it's somebody else's fault who can't be caught and sued, like a new faction of rebels in a region that was peaceful last week. Or a mosquito with a new disease.
Even as a libertarian I recognize that decisions like these are not simple. What rights should people have when they're not adults yet? If they're smarter than average for their age does that make a difference, or is it a matter of emotional maturity? If emotional maturity is really an issue, then why should so many obviously dysfunctional adults be allowed to drive cars, drink whiskey, own guns and have children of their own?
Based upon the minimal information presented here, if it were up to me I would let the university decide. They have the most knowledge of the situation, and even if they are not the ones with the most to lose, they still have quite a bit at stake.
Nonetheless I admire these parents and I hope the kid is grateful to have them. When I was all of 29, my mother still tried to stop me from going to Europe, because there were communists in Bulgaria and cholera in Italy.
South Africa is not a war zone. Omega is right about the violence. I watched a documentary on the gangs in South Africa. Also there are wild animals. In many other parts of the continent, there are political unrest, civil wars, coup d'etas, warlords.....
Crap like that happens all the time, that doesn't mean it is right. Children and children, there will be certain problems. In the end, I think the University have the right to decided, after all it is their field trip. I don't admire those parents in the least.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
There is gang violence in LA but no one would say its unsafe to travel there for work or vacation. Wild animals? Is it that you think there are lions and rhinos running around in Johannesburg and Cape Town? The 'wild animals' live in reserves. There are no more wild animals running around in South Africa than there are in Australia. What goes on in other parts of Africa has nothing to do with life in South Africa. Would you say no one should travel to the US because there is violence and unrest due to drug lords in Mexico?
Kind of reminds me of the ignorant statements made when I first planned to go to Cambodia. Some thought there was still a war going on, others thought everyone lived in shacks with no electricity or running water, still yet there were those who were convinced that it was absolutely unsafe for westerners. It was all ridiculous of course, I'm sure the Khmers could call each other on their iphones and have a good laugh about it as they munch on their kentucky fried chicken and drive around in their Lexus SUV's
Its sad that some of you here know so little of the rest of the world.
There's no shortage of ignorance I guess:shrug:
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What are they doing in South Africa? Minors can't even cook french fries or use a trash compactor where I live because of liability reasons, doesn't matter if you're parent is standing right next to you. He's studying biology so it is possible that someone who is underage might be prohibited from working with certain materials. I obviously don't know the whole story, but I used to be an assistant curator at a museum and many of the high school and Jr. high volunteers/interns could not even walk into some of the storage rooms that the museum has because they contain "dangerous" chemicals, like rubbing alcohol (which isn't really dangerous) but the museum did not want to be responsible for any mishap no matter how unlikely or improbable. So naturally they were prohibited from holding certain internships that required you to spend time in the storage facilities. Not that they didn't have some seriously dangerous chemicals as well like 100 year old formalin which can knock you out just from smelling it and can be fatal if inhaled or ingested. Even if their parents are standing right next to them, it is just as dangerous for minors to handle those materials and legally minors can't be held to any contracts so of course the parents can sue and will most likely win. I can see why the university is not jumping at the chance to let him go.
Because it's not that big in L.A. There aren't daily racial conflicts going on in L.A. Yes, gag activity is bad over there, but not as bad as in South Africa. The animals do not all live on reserves. And FYI there are wild animals still roaming in Australia. Yes there is a big reserve in Africa, but not all animals are there. The thing is, is that civil wars and other conflict happen all over Africa, including the South. So your statement on America and Mexico is irrelevant.
Well, it just goes to show some people don't do their research.
I know quite well about the world. One of the courses I excel in is World Cultural Geography. The things i'm saying about South Africa have been documented through the media and are proven with local(As in South African) police reports.
Sad but true. Some people don't understand the beauty of other countries. There are so many great countries. I know the common misconceptions of people, I mean South Africa is a great place to visit, but it has extreme dangers; especially for a teenager.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
But there is no civil war going on in South Africa!
Wild animals are not randomly roaming around the cities of South Africa!
There are many disturbing issues in developing countries but that doesn't mean its unsafe for the average traveler or student (especially if they have their mother traveling and watching over them). Do your realize how many tourists there are that travel to SA? Its not this land mine of danger you are thinking of.
I am glad you are aware of places outside of your home country (gives me hope) But there are people who take their young children, and by young I mean under the age of 13 to these places ALL THE TIME without issue.
The fears of danger are larger than the reality of what can happen.
SA has its problems but so do many places around the world but its not such an issue that one cannot visit. Hell I would be more worried about visiting Moscow or Latvia where random violence against foreigners are intense and not as documented.
All I am saying is that many places around the world are not as dangerous as one would think especially when they are arranged by an educational institution, I mean its not like 'travelers gone wild' or anything. I think the kid is being denied a wonderful opportunity to expand his horizons and have an amazing experience.
If I were his mom, I wouldn't bother suing the school. I would arrange a family trip and take him there anyway and arrange for some interesting educational activities so that he could experience more than than normal 'tourist route'.
But perhaps I would be a non conformist parent. A rogue parent
My mother didn't protect me in such a fashion and I am grateful for it. She allowed me to experience the world and when I look back on it it was a gift that no book could have ever offered me.
I understand the reservations and fears and concerns, but life is an adventure and an experience and if people who consider such expeditions do so responsibly and arm themselves and educate those who are to embark on such a journey responsibly it can be absolutely wonderous.
And I mean that sincerely without the slightest glibness
Hell my mother caught hell when she allowed me to go to India to work with the media center in Bangalore:shrug: There were those who thought that too dangerous. They all thought I would drop dead of food or water poisoning but they didn't realize how actually sophisticated the region really was even with food and water issues. Hell I would rather that than sending my kid to NYC unattended!
I think that American students of all ages would benefit by visiting other parts of the developing world.
Just my thoughts based on experience.
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Excuse me for not going to poor countries. I only go to developed ones. Like Australia, New Zealand, Italy, Germany, Japan .ect. And I had good times there. There are no coup d'etas in North America, nor is there major political unrest. Of course they are going to go to reserves, they are taking a course there.
But there are wild animals roaming around in the wild isn't there. He's going there to as a student to study not to be a simple tourist (I'm sure that is why he is interested in the class, not because it has always been his dream to soak up South African culture). When I was studying biology, whenever we went out in the field we were in the field, not in town. So I ask again do you know what they will be doing in South Africa? Work with the environment, perhaps cleaning oil spills, or measuring amounts of toxic waste, studying the wildlife up close and personal? It says he was too young for this specific course not too young to travel abroad to study, which probably means that they are doing things minors are not allowed to do.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
So you are saying that the university is sending ALL of its students into a situation where the risks are not calculated and simply placing them all in danger?
He was already taking the course:
"But he's been knocked off course by the university's rejection of his request to take a class that includes summer field work in South Africa."
They kicked him out of the course AFTER he requested to join the field trip. The article does not indicate what risks there are in this field
trip.
"Brian Whalen, president and chief executive officer of the Forum on Education Abroad, a nonprofit member association of 400 schools, agencies and other groups, said he has not heard of another case where a college student Colin's age had tried to study abroad. When accepted into a college or university, a student generally is assumed to have access to academic programs, he said."
So if they felt he was too young to take full advantage of his college experience they shouldn't have bothered to matriculate him. Granted he's young but he is obviously intelligent enough to carry out his studies and his parents offered to escort him on the trip.
The risk has been calculated and the risk has obviously considered too high for a minor. Minors can't do a lot of seemingly harmless stuff because of what might happen. No one said being a kid doesn't suck from time to time.
Your article said he was barred from registering and I'm assuming it's because being 18+ is a requirement for that class.
So. Who has never had a set back in their life? It's not like he can't graduate without taking this one class.
Which would be very helpful if they did. I know from personal experience as an assistant curator of marine biology and as a former biology student myself. Biologist often work with "poisons" that minors are not allowed to work with because they can be dangerous.
Which is true unless you don't meet specific requirements. At my school freshman can not take courses designated for junior or senior level students. A friend of mine was barred from taking a class she was really interested in because it involved working at a winery and she was only 20. So she couldn't take it until she met the requirement of being 21.
That's absurd. That is like not admitting a handicapped student because they can't participate in PE classes and not take full advantage of their college experience. This is one class out of hundreds he could take. Every class has requirements that must be met and if you don't meet them you can't take the class. It's like that for everyone. I really wanted to intern at NASA when I was 15, but being 18 was a requirement so I couldn't do it. I reallywanted to take an upper division class about Chinese culture, but living in China for at least a year is a requirement so I couldn't take it. Classes usually have requirements for a reason.
Pandaemoni
Valued Senior Member
I think he should be able to go, especially with a parent present, but I also think he should lose his age discrimination lawsuit.
The university has a reasonable basis for concern, and while I think they are making a bad call, not every bad decision should be legally actionable. Sometimes people and organizations have the right to disagree with me, or even (more forcefully put) to be wrong, and yet not fear having to pay money for the error.
His remedy is, and he should tell the dean this is his plan, to never contribute a single dime to their alumni drives.
The university has a reasonable basis for concern, and while I think they are making a bad call, not every bad decision should be legally actionable. Sometimes people and organizations have the right to disagree with me, or even (more forcefully put) to be wrong, and yet not fear having to pay money for the error.
His remedy is, and he should tell the dean this is his plan, to never contribute a single dime to their alumni drives.
Civil War may be a bit of an overstatement. But there is racial conflict.
True, but whos to say they can't come into the city's?
It can be when kidnappings have been reported.
Yeah, I was in class and we were given country's to do End-Term Projects on. This one girl was given New Zealand and upon hearing that she said, "Where's that?" I was somewhat shocked hearing that. I encourage families to experience the world. But there is always bad people in the world...
Most of the time yes.
Yeah it would be a wonderful learning experience.
Well New York is on the top ten crime list for America.
Absolutely, but it is only human nature to worry.