@Oni --
This is true, however that's not the focus of pro-choice advocacy. Killing is not, in my view at least, necessarily a bad thing. It's a fact of life, always has been and always will be. The very fact that we can't survive without killing something(whether it be plant or animal) in order to eat it(thanks to the laws of physics) means that killing is, in and of itself, not the main objection to abortion.
No, the main objection seems to stem from when people draw the line of personhood, and given that most of the lifers seem to draw their lines with regards only for religious beliefs, it shouldn't be surprising that they bump heads against the necessities of reality. One of those current necessities is the freedom of women to seek clean and safe abortions should they choose to.
One can disagree, vehemently even, with them for doing so. However seeking to stop them not only violates their rights to their own body but it makes a mockery of the liberty which our nation was supposedly founded on. This is how the issue sits with me.
@sirfreak --
That's not really fair. A fetus is, by all scientific measurements, alive. This isn't in dispute.
Does the life of a fetus have more value than the life and/or happiness of the woman it's currently in? Absolutely not, and that's where the communication between lifers and choicers tends to break down.
So yes, an abortion does result in the death of human life, but not in the death of a person under any definition which doesn't make a mockery of the word, and this, I think, is what the lifers have such a hard time understanding. Choicers are not advocating that abortions are inherently good or anything of the sort, in fact most choicers would love to live in a world where abortions are simply not necessary at all. What we do advocate for is an individual's right to choose what path they feel is best for them.
To quote the late J. S. Mill:
"The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it. Each is the proper guardian of his own health, whether bodily, or mental or spiritual. Mankind are greater gainers by suffering each other to live as seems good to themselves, than by compelling each to live as seems good to the rest."
Honestly I don't think that it's been said quite so well before or after Mill.
However I do have to note here that you seem to be putting words in Oni's mouth. I've read the thread and nowhere has Oni said anything which can be interpreted the way that you have, which leads me to suspect that you have a rather emotional attachment to this subject and are allowing that to color your posts. This doesn't do you any favors.
This is true, however that's not the focus of pro-choice advocacy. Killing is not, in my view at least, necessarily a bad thing. It's a fact of life, always has been and always will be. The very fact that we can't survive without killing something(whether it be plant or animal) in order to eat it(thanks to the laws of physics) means that killing is, in and of itself, not the main objection to abortion.
No, the main objection seems to stem from when people draw the line of personhood, and given that most of the lifers seem to draw their lines with regards only for religious beliefs, it shouldn't be surprising that they bump heads against the necessities of reality. One of those current necessities is the freedom of women to seek clean and safe abortions should they choose to.
One can disagree, vehemently even, with them for doing so. However seeking to stop them not only violates their rights to their own body but it makes a mockery of the liberty which our nation was supposedly founded on. This is how the issue sits with me.
@sirfreak --
That's not really fair. A fetus is, by all scientific measurements, alive. This isn't in dispute.
Does the life of a fetus have more value than the life and/or happiness of the woman it's currently in? Absolutely not, and that's where the communication between lifers and choicers tends to break down.
So yes, an abortion does result in the death of human life, but not in the death of a person under any definition which doesn't make a mockery of the word, and this, I think, is what the lifers have such a hard time understanding. Choicers are not advocating that abortions are inherently good or anything of the sort, in fact most choicers would love to live in a world where abortions are simply not necessary at all. What we do advocate for is an individual's right to choose what path they feel is best for them.
To quote the late J. S. Mill:
"The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it. Each is the proper guardian of his own health, whether bodily, or mental or spiritual. Mankind are greater gainers by suffering each other to live as seems good to themselves, than by compelling each to live as seems good to the rest."
Honestly I don't think that it's been said quite so well before or after Mill.
However I do have to note here that you seem to be putting words in Oni's mouth. I've read the thread and nowhere has Oni said anything which can be interpreted the way that you have, which leads me to suspect that you have a rather emotional attachment to this subject and are allowing that to color your posts. This doesn't do you any favors.