surely they could just retort "keep your laws off my body" and whatnot, no?
It isn't about that though, is it?
It is about respecting a woman's right to choose whether she has a child or not. And in that regard, men should not be debating this politically while excluding women from said debate. It does affect women because it is happening inside their bodies.
So you can stop with the impossible premise that women are inserting heroin into their uterus as drug mules.
funny how imitating things that occur naturally warrants an entirely different perspective ..
Banning abortions and declaring that life begins at conceptions runs the risk - and believe me, you just know there will be some far right religious arsehat who will raise suspicion - that women who miscarry could find themselves being investigated and possibly charged with murder. In fact, that is already happening in some States of the US.
Maybe you should start to view women as free indivdual human beings with autonomy over their own bodies instead of just viewing them as incubators?
":shrug:"
whatever it may be, one is a natural occurrence and the other involves wantonly neglecting the rights one is obliged to protect
Unfortunately, it does not work that way.
A 6 week old embryo, for example, should not have more rights than the mother carrying it. If the mother falls ill, or aborts it naturally, or decides to terminate the pregnancy, her rights over her body trumps said embryo's rights over hers.
actually its even simpler - protect and prevent individuals from being killed
Embryo's aren't "individuals".
They are just.. embryo's..
hey put up or shut up!!
Unless you have some bright idea how one can install ultrasounds at cigarette stores and the judicial powers to persecute and apprehend offenders, all discussion of pregnant mums chain smoking and what not is just not on the cards.
Next thing you know you will be saying that its not a good idea for pregnant mums to binge drink!!
The nerve ....
If a woman wants to smoke and/or drink, that should be her choice.
Did you know that in some 38 or so States, if a woman miscarries and they find out she was a drug addict, consumed anything that could be deemed harmful to the foetus or even if in the midst of depression she may have been suffering she tries to commit suicide, she can be charged with murder? Even if they have no proof that what she consumed had anything to do with the miscarriage..
This is where you are headed... Where women and teenage who miscarry are being investigated for murder and being charged with it.
Does this make you happy?
the reason it is so ridiculous is because anyone with half a brain (including drug mules) understands that the moment one is violating the rights of others, one gets nailed - there is no "special part" of the anatomy that stands outside this norm ("No your honour, it wasn't me, it was my reproductive system ... so keep your laws off my body"). In fact its relatively common for women to use their reproductive system as an aid in smuggling
By applying a fallacy?
Really?
This is the kind of thing you resort to?
While there is no special part of the anatomy that "stands outside the norm",
no woman should ever be forced, against her will, to carry a child to term.
Do you understand that?
Or do you think that women should be forced by the State and society to act as human incubators against their will? A yes or no will suffice.
I think even you would agree (in your saner moments) that regardless whether one goes to get an abortion or not, the problem is not one of defining the situation .... I mean its not like you can be half pregnant, is it?
The question remains the same.
And thank you for making spurious comments on my sanity. How very Christian of you. I am sure your Jesus and God would approve.
If you define an embryo or foetus as an "individual", then that carries a lot more responsibility and you do end up going to places where women will end up having their menstrual periods examined to make sure she's not pregnant. You would have to force women to never drink, smoke or consume any foods or beverage which could be harmful to a possible pregnancy.
I guess you also find it difficult to engage in discussion about chain smoking and drinking while pregnant ... since these too are plagued by identical problems ( btw, sorry to hear that you have such a dismal view of parenthood )
What are my view on "parenthood" LG?
Perhaps you can enlighten me?
As for chainsmoking and drinking while pregnant? It isn't any of my business. Are you going to try and force your views on women about that as well now? You know, since you are trying to force your views on
their uterus?
Why?
Do you think they would get a milder treatment from the law if they did?
Nope.
Why do you think I would want that?
Ah, the crux...
An unborn child cannot survive outside of her womb until it reaches the point of viability. Attempting to give the "unborn child" more rights over her body than she does is immoral and denies her her human rights and autonomy. She has a right to choose what she does with her body.
Or do you think women should be forced to remain pregnant against their wishes?
plenty of room in a women's reproductive system .... a fact many female smugglers bank on ...
Feel free to post any complete diagram of a female reproductive system and I can show you where
You really don't understand how the uterus and cervix works, do you?
Do you even understand how a "child" remains in said uterus?
if you can conceive of the "other' that an abortion is taking out of the picture, the real question is why are you asking these things?
And if you are attributing rights to the "other" who may be say, 8 weeks, and giving it more rights than the mother does, one has to question your views of women.
similarly don't you dare pass judgments on smoking binge drinking mums unless you are prepared to outfit every liquor store with a portable ultrasound ....
I may not think it's good personally, but I am not about to force my beliefs on her and what she does.
It is her business.
Understand now?
