Tiassa
Atheism is a LACK of belief in a god, PERIOD. Anything else an atheist does is motivated by something other than that lack of belief. Atheism offers no precepts, we have no organization and likely would not have any set of beliefs or convictions or moral opinions in common with each other. It is not a moral opinion, in and of itself. It is not a belief, it is the lack of a certain subset of all beliefs, those which contain a supernatural deity.
That is an individual trait not exclusive to atheist, nor common among them. Part of our current political problems is so called Christians acting in very unChristian ways, all the while hiding behind their "Religious Freedom" as justification of their assholery. They claim they have authority from god to be such cretins, at least atheists have no such cover and claim no such authority(at least in the name of atheism).
Again, it is up to the individual, atheism has no guidance to give them. All one needs to do to convert to atheism is to lose your belief in the god you previously believed in. That's it, that's the whole process. Most of the converted have told me that they just "Woke up" one day to find they COULD NOT any longer fool themselves that they believed what they now saw as mystic non-sense. I never believed, the indoctrination couldn't sneak by the intellect. Anything else is up to the individual to figure out for themselves. If asked my opinion of what you should do, it would all be from my own personal perspective(I was raised by a Baptist minister/missionary). Personally, I have no beef with the teachings of Jesus and wish Christians would actually follow them and get their noses out of Leviticus(a deeply immoral book). Or you could look at Humanism. All of which has nothing to do with atheism.
I see it rather as a theist expecting something from atheists that atheists just have nothing to do with. The chestnut that there are no morals without god is reflective of that. Atheism is not about morals, it is the answer to one question,"Do you believe in a supernatural being called god?" The answer is no. You have not asked a question about our moral thoughts, or what one should do, or any of the other things that ARE intrinsic to those who answer "Yes, I believe in ______." or "_____ is the one true god!". In those cases you have a whole structure behind Allah or Odin or Shiva that has morals and stories attached. If you want to know what the moral thoughts of an atheist is, you must ask additional, specific questions, questions that are automatically answered if one identifies their religion. Theists' answers are loaded with meanings that are just nulls for atheism, but that just the way it is and it only causes a problem in theists who do not understand the difference. When a theists asks about belief in god, he is talking about the whole package of these hidden meanings, when an atheist answers no it only tells you about his belief in a deity, it is not saying anything about the whole host of hidden meanings the theist unconsciously includes. It is your own expectation of more than a no that fuels your frustration of not receiving it, the atheist is just answering the question. And many theists interpret this as there being no morals behind it, when to the atheist that is a separate question. I'm reminded of a poem I read one time, the relevant portion being the question "Who's little ism is u?". Because if you name the ism, most times you can tell a lot about that person's belief or convictions. That is not true about atheism, you can only say something about what they do not believe. Without Theisms, there would be no such thing as atheism.
Well, it isn't. Your morals don't come from a god, they come from your internal moral compass, the way you were taught to behave in Kindergarten establishes that moral compass before the intellect accepts or rejects the existence of god. If you are the kind who is evil, belief in god does not in any way make you less evil, Hitler was a lifelong Catholic in good standing, Martin Luther a vile antisemite. And Gandhi was an Atheist. But being an Atheist is not what made Gandhi good, his good could be found in his own character. When Penn Gillette was asked "As an Atheist, why don't you rape and steal as much as you want to?", to which he replied "I am already raping and stealing as much as I want to, which is none whatsoever." God does not make you a moral person, YOU DO. Stop leaning on the crutch and stand up on your own two legs and become the person you want to be is the best advice I could give to any recovering theist. It IS harder to face reality without backup, but basically that is the way it is, whether or not you are ready to face it.
No it doesn't. You haven't bothered to look further than that narrow, limited question. I and most other atheists I know are Humanists, look into it if you want to see the reality instead of the shallow surface reflection of your own erronious expectations.
Grumpy
Atheism is a LACK of belief in a god, PERIOD. Anything else an atheist does is motivated by something other than that lack of belief. Atheism offers no precepts, we have no organization and likely would not have any set of beliefs or convictions or moral opinions in common with each other. It is not a moral opinion, in and of itself. It is not a belief, it is the lack of a certain subset of all beliefs, those which contain a supernatural deity.
One common behavior among atheists in the public discussion of atheism is that they have worked very hard to rhetorically seal themselves off from any real accountability as political or philosophical players
That is an individual trait not exclusive to atheist, nor common among them. Part of our current political problems is so called Christians acting in very unChristian ways, all the while hiding behind their "Religious Freedom" as justification of their assholery. They claim they have authority from god to be such cretins, at least atheists have no such cover and claim no such authority(at least in the name of atheism).
For instance, in the past I have inquired about what happens when a religionist converts to atheism
Again, it is up to the individual, atheism has no guidance to give them. All one needs to do to convert to atheism is to lose your belief in the god you previously believed in. That's it, that's the whole process. Most of the converted have told me that they just "Woke up" one day to find they COULD NOT any longer fool themselves that they believed what they now saw as mystic non-sense. I never believed, the indoctrination couldn't sneak by the intellect. Anything else is up to the individual to figure out for themselves. If asked my opinion of what you should do, it would all be from my own personal perspective(I was raised by a Baptist minister/missionary). Personally, I have no beef with the teachings of Jesus and wish Christians would actually follow them and get their noses out of Leviticus(a deeply immoral book). Or you could look at Humanism. All of which has nothing to do with atheism.
In the first place is the superficial arrogance. In the second, such a refusal really does appear to support that stupid religionistic assertion that there is no morality without God; or, at least, it makes the question of right and wrong seem very, very arbitrary. And in the third, it does nothing to facilitate understanding among theists.
I see it rather as a theist expecting something from atheists that atheists just have nothing to do with. The chestnut that there are no morals without god is reflective of that. Atheism is not about morals, it is the answer to one question,"Do you believe in a supernatural being called god?" The answer is no. You have not asked a question about our moral thoughts, or what one should do, or any of the other things that ARE intrinsic to those who answer "Yes, I believe in ______." or "_____ is the one true god!". In those cases you have a whole structure behind Allah or Odin or Shiva that has morals and stories attached. If you want to know what the moral thoughts of an atheist is, you must ask additional, specific questions, questions that are automatically answered if one identifies their religion. Theists' answers are loaded with meanings that are just nulls for atheism, but that just the way it is and it only causes a problem in theists who do not understand the difference. When a theists asks about belief in god, he is talking about the whole package of these hidden meanings, when an atheist answers no it only tells you about his belief in a deity, it is not saying anything about the whole host of hidden meanings the theist unconsciously includes. It is your own expectation of more than a no that fuels your frustration of not receiving it, the atheist is just answering the question. And many theists interpret this as there being no morals behind it, when to the atheist that is a separate question. I'm reminded of a poem I read one time, the relevant portion being the question "Who's little ism is u?". Because if you name the ism, most times you can tell a lot about that person's belief or convictions. That is not true about atheism, you can only say something about what they do not believe. Without Theisms, there would be no such thing as atheism.
The lack of pathos is striking. When a theist abandons God, the linchpin of their moral structure disappears, leaving their sense of right and wrong a house of cards susceptible to the slightest disturbance. I've asked identifying atheists before to describe what they would offer that theist in order to help him through this transition. And the answer is always the same, that atheism isn't about ideology.
Well, it isn't. Your morals don't come from a god, they come from your internal moral compass, the way you were taught to behave in Kindergarten establishes that moral compass before the intellect accepts or rejects the existence of god. If you are the kind who is evil, belief in god does not in any way make you less evil, Hitler was a lifelong Catholic in good standing, Martin Luther a vile antisemite. And Gandhi was an Atheist. But being an Atheist is not what made Gandhi good, his good could be found in his own character. When Penn Gillette was asked "As an Atheist, why don't you rape and steal as much as you want to?", to which he replied "I am already raping and stealing as much as I want to, which is none whatsoever." God does not make you a moral person, YOU DO. Stop leaning on the crutch and stand up on your own two legs and become the person you want to be is the best advice I could give to any recovering theist. It IS harder to face reality without backup, but basically that is the way it is, whether or not you are ready to face it.
But it's also a really cheap answer. It suggests that the atheist doesn't give a damn about the theist except to have someone to complain about.
No it doesn't. You haven't bothered to look further than that narrow, limited question. I and most other atheists I know are Humanists, look into it if you want to see the reality instead of the shallow surface reflection of your own erronious expectations.
Grumpy