A refrain...(warning! christian thought!)

Mr. Hamtastic,

I would like to pursue other discussion, but so long as my God is under attack, I have trouble doing so.

I only ask to be treated with the same respect you feel is due you. I would request that you do not attack my God with unnecessary name calling, or suggest you have some unseen 'evidence' that my God does not exist.

I will respect your belief/lack of belief if you will respect mine.
Click to expand...
The issue here is that you are taking personal offense at comments that are not aimed at you personally. If it was then that would be considered unacceptable here. There is, however, a fine balance since attacking what many see as foolish ideas raises the issue of whether the claimant is indeed foolish for believing such foolishness. If on the other hand you were to say “if a god were to exist then…………. But instead you adopt the position of assuming your beliefs represent facts and argue accordingly. It is then difficult to separate the beliefs from the claimant.

From the perspective of someone who believes an object does not exist and that the idea is preposterous then any amount of abuse for that imaginary object is entirely justified. From your perspective you have built a personal strong emotional belief around the claims of your chosen religion and you are having trouble with the concept that those ideas are totally alien to others.

There is no requirement to respect any beliefs here. All are up for debate/abuse of any style. If such abuse conflicts with your emotions then you are indeed in the wrong place if you cannot take that kind of heat. To call an alleged god a dickhead is perfectly acceptable here, but if the comment is aimed at you personally then you have every right to complain.

Now I would agree that debates vary in quality and the more useful debates tend not to include abuse, but we are open to any and all styles here.
 
Maybe, but you do ignore it when theists are stalked and hounded here Cris.
 
Do you feel hounded? I apologise, it was not intentional, I'll leave you alone now. :)
 
SAM,

Maybe, but you do ignore it when theists are stalked and hounded here Cris.
Click to expand...
Persistently pursuing a poster because one finds their posts and ideas worth pursuing seems appropriate. Why should that be seen as a problem? You pursue (Q) everywhere he posts.

There are very few complaints made and I respond to every case.
 
No, you ignored mine. I just rolled up my sleeves and gave it back.
 
It was when I first came here. Its okay, it was a long time ago now. I'm stubborn and I can stand up for myself, but I've seen it happen to others too. Its a pity, because encouraging persecution of beliefs is a slippery slope. Even being suicidal does not guarantee exemption.
 
S.A.M. said:
Maybe, but you do ignore it when theists are stalked and hounded here Cris.
Click to expand...

The thing is that some theists here do not seem to realize what they are actually declaring when they declare belief in God and eternal damnation on everyone who doesn't think the way that particular theist does.

Once you declare to believe in God, once you declare to even know God you are not a regular run-of-the-mill person anymore.
Once you declare to believe in God, once you declare to even know God you are implying that you are better off than all those who don't believe the way you do.

Belief in God should count for something, should it not?? After all, the theist is sure he is saved from eternal hell, while the rest of us have our doubts.

I expect from every self-declared theist to be morally better than me, to be happier than me, to be stronger than me, to be wiser than me.
I expect from every self-declared theist to be beyond being immersed in the troubles of the everyday life.

I actually value it and respect it when people declare belief and knowledge of God.

I find it repugnant that someone declares belief in God and then goes on to behave in just the same way run-of-the-mill people do.

Belief in God is a serious matter and should be treated as such. Belief in God should not be declared lightly. I think non-theists and seekers of all kinds should not tolerate sloppy theism. It is this tolerance for sloppy theism that is a factor in why atheism can spread.

Those who do not yet know God but seek Him are, at least at first, at the mercy of everyone who claims to know God. When these claimants are no different than run-of-the-mill people, the seekers will likely be mislead and caused a lot of suffering. The seeker is of course responsible for whom he believes, but this does not absolve the claimant of the responsibility for what he claims.
 
Your penultimate para. talks of atheism spreading as if that were a bad thing. Some of us regard rhe god hypothesis as nonsense and a rejection of it as a move towards enlightenment and liberation from superstition.
 
Mr. Hamtastic said:
I respect the belief that there is no God. I respect the belief in "flying undetectable wooly mammoths generating wind", if that is what you choose to believe.
Click to expand...
People are not rightly criticized for WHAT they believe...rather that they have chosen 'believing' over 'knowing'.
 
greenberg said:
The thing is that some theists here do not seem to realize what they are actually declaring when they declare belief in God and eternal damnation on everyone who doesn't think the way that particular theist does.

Once you declare to believe in God, once you declare to even know God you are not a regular run-of-the-mill person anymore.
Once you declare to believe in God, once you declare to even know God you are implying that you are better off than all those who don't believe the way you do.

Belief in God should count for something, should it not?? After all, the theist is sure he is saved from eternal hell, while the rest of us have our doubts.

I expect from every self-declared theist to be morally better than me, to be happier than me, to be stronger than me, to be wiser than me.
I expect from every self-declared theist to be beyond being immersed in the troubles of the everyday life.

I actually value it and respect it when people declare belief and knowledge of God.

I find it repugnant that someone declares belief in God and then goes on to behave in just the same way run-of-the-mill people do.

Belief in God is a serious matter and should be treated as such. Belief in God should not be declared lightly. I think non-theists and seekers of all kinds should not tolerate sloppy theism. It is this tolerance for sloppy theism that is a factor in why atheism can spread.

Those who do not yet know God but seek Him are, at least at first, at the mercy of everyone who claims to know God. When these claimants are no different than run-of-the-mill people, the seekers will likely be mislead and caused a lot of suffering. The seeker is of course responsible for whom he believes, but this does not absolve the claimant of the responsibility for what he claims.
Click to expand...


Your expectations are noted my friend, but you make the mistake of thinking that the religious pay attention to their religion.

And why call ye me Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
 
greenberg said:
The thing is that some theists here do not seem to realize what they are actually declaring when they declare belief in God and eternal damnation on everyone who doesn't think the way that particular theist does.

Once you declare to believe in God, once you declare to even know God you are not a regular run-of-the-mill person anymore.
Once you declare to believe in God, once you declare to even know God you are implying that you are better off than all those who don't believe the way you do.

Belief in God should count for something, should it not?? After all, the theist is sure he is saved from eternal hell, while the rest of us have our doubts.

I expect from every self-declared theist to be morally better than me, to be happier than me, to be stronger than me, to be wiser than me.
I expect from every self-declared theist to be beyond being immersed in the troubles of the everyday life.

I actually value it and respect it when people declare belief and knowledge of God.

I find it repugnant that someone declares belief in God and then goes on to behave in just the same way run-of-the-mill people do.

Belief in God is a serious matter and should be treated as such. Belief in God should not be declared lightly. I think non-theists and seekers of all kinds should not tolerate sloppy theism. It is this tolerance for sloppy theism that is a factor in why atheism can spread.

Those who do not yet know God but seek Him are, at least at first, at the mercy of everyone who claims to know God. When these claimants are no different than run-of-the-mill people, the seekers will likely be mislead and caused a lot of suffering. The seeker is of course responsible for whom he believes, but this does not absolve the claimant of the responsibility for what he claims.
Click to expand...

I agree with this.

By the way SAM, no atheists on this board show me disrespect. Only muslims show me disrespect. Atheists listen to my argument and respond to them, muslims just ignore my arguments and state new ones.
 
S.A.M. said:
Your expectations are noted my friend, but you make the mistake of thinking that the religious pay attention to their religion.
Click to expand...

They should. Or they will be made to.

I empathize with those theists who have declared belief in God, but who are facing personal difficulties.
But they must understand that issues concerning God are too serious to be taken simply as their private, personal belief and thus be respected as such.
No, issues concerning God are more important than that and they concern the whole society.
Not just everyone can go around preaching about God. There have to be qualifications.
 
greenberg said:
They should. Or they will be made to.

I empathize with those theists who have declared belief in God, but who are facing personal difficulties.
But they must understand that issues concerning God are too serious to be taken simply as their private, personal belief and thus be respected as such.
No, issues concerning God are more important than that and they concern the whole society.
Not just everyone can go around preaching about God. There have to be qualifications.
Click to expand...

And the source of those qualifications ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top