A question to Christians

[Non-Logical-Idea-Guy]

As Nutter rightly pointed out, that was NOT Christians that tried to take it way back then. From a religious standpoint, the "Holy Land" has no real importance to genuine Christians. That's not to say there aren't some splinter factions (as in any religion) that place a value on it but true Christians do not.

please explain what a genuine christian is

 

[geeser]

Christianity started in the early first century. For example,the term "Christian" was used in Acts 11:26, which corresponds to roughly 42 A.D.

so now your saying Catholics are Christian, have you changed your mind, do try to be consistent.

 

[pjdude1219]

As Nutter rightly pointed out, that was NOT Christians that tried to take it way back then. From a religious standpoint, the "Holy Land" has no real importance to genuine Christians. That's not to say there aren't some splinter factions (as in any religion) that place a value on it but true Christians do not.

catholics are christians your showing your ignorance by saying other wise

 

[Nutter]

so now your saying Catholics are Christian, have you changed your mind, do try to be consistent.

It is you who misunderstand. In no way have I changed my mind. Reexamine the posts.

God bless.

 

[Read-Only]

catholics are christians your showing your ignorance by saying other wise

No, you are showing yours. I never once said Catholics didn't consider themselves to be Christians, did I?:bugeye: The Roman Catholic church is an altogether different matter. It's nothing more than a political money-making enterprise. (My opinon and that of many others as well.)

 

[Norsefire]

I understand all your opinions except Hani's.


But it's not about whether the Holy Land was given to the Jews...that much, all Abrahamic religions know (even Islam).

It's about wanting the land for yourself, something that Judaism and Islam have fought for, yet not Christianity? Why is it the odd one out?

 

[Read-Only]

I understand all your opinions except Hani's.


But it's not about whether the Holy Land was given to the Jews...that much, all Abrahamic religions know (even Islam).

It's about wanting the land for yourself, something that Judaism and Islam have fought for, yet not Christianity? Why is it the odd one out?

Simple. For Christians, it's just of historic importance only. Actual posession of that land means nothing to them.

 

[James R]

Photizo:

Incorrect. They hope for the return of their Lord--and in the meantime for the salvation of their fellow man...

You are careful to ignore the main point of my post.

They hope for the return of the Lord, and at the same time they believe that the way to hasten that return is to support Israel as a state. They have no greater wish than to bring on the "end times" with all its death and destruction.

 

[Read-Only]

Photizo:



You are careful to ignore the main point of my post.

They hope for the return of the Lord, and at the same time they believe that the way to hasten that return is to support Israel as a state. They have no greater wish than to bring on the "end times" with all its death and destruction.

There's only a fringe that believes that, James. The majority believe that it's all running on a timetable that has long been established and that no one knows. And that things like you're describing are simply "indicators."

 

[Photizo]

They hope for the return of the Lord, and at the same time they believe that the way to hasten that return is to support Israel as a state. They have no greater wish than to bring on the "end times" with all its death and destruction.

The last thing "they" want is to witness the death and destruction of their fellows. That said, "they believe that the way to hasten that return is to" preach the Gospel to every nation:

this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

You are careful to avoid the Word of God so as to steer clear of Divine rebuke...rather then His correction, you prefer the very temporary smug self assurance stemming from arrogance. Oh well, ignorance is bliss as they say..."verily I say unto you, you have your reward."

 

[Exhumed]

There's only a fringe that believes that, James. The majority believe that it's all running on a timetable that has long been established and that no one knows. And that things like you're describing are simply "indicators."

A fringe that makes up a sizable chunk of US voters, I think, though I forget the exact number.

 

[Read-Only]

A fringe that makes up a sizable chunk of US voters, I think, though I forget the exact number.

There's no accounting for some beliefs. Though I'd really like to see that number if you happen to come across it again.

 

[John99]

It seems that Christians support the state of Israel


Yet, I don't understand. Wouldn't you want it for yourself? Isn't that what the Crusades were all about, taking the Holy Land for the Christians?

Don't Christians want the Holy Land? After all, in the past they tried to take it from the Jews/Muslims, and yet today, you don't?

Why?

most of the media is full of crap, i think this is where you are getting your information from. for the most part Christians are a convenient scapegoat and all sides play it up at the right times.

couldnt you just as easily say most people support the state of Israel? or probably more accurately- i wonder how many people even care who do not have any personal reasons to do so?

 

[James R]

Photizo:

Please read the following article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_times

Concentrating for a moment only on Christian protestants, which includes some of the American evangelical Christians, here are a few quotes:

End times beliefs in Protestant Christianity vary widely. Christian premillennialists, who believe the End Times are now, usually articulate a fairly specific timetable that climaxes in the end of the world. For some, Israel, the European Union, or the United Nations are seen as key players whose role was foretold in prophecies. Among dispensational premillennialists, there are those that believe that they will be supernaturally summoned to Heaven by God in an event called the Rapture before the tribulations prophesied in the Bible's book of Revelation take place.

...

Some fundamental Christians anticipate that biblical prophecy will be fulfilled literally. They see current world and regional wars, earthquakes, hurricanes and famines as the beginning of the birth pains which Jesus described in Matthew 24:7-8 and Mark 13:8. Fundamental Christians believe that mankind started in the garden of Eden, and point to Megiddo as the place that the world system will finish.

Contemporary use of the term End Times has evolved from use around a group of literal beliefs in Christian millennialism. These beliefs typically include the ideas that the Biblical apocalypse is imminent and that various signs in current events are omens of a climax to world history known as the battle of Armageddon. These beliefs have been widely held in one form, by the Adventist movement (Millerites), by Jehovah's Witnesses, and in another form by dispensational premillennialists.

Religious movements which expect that the second coming of Christ, will be a cataclysmic event, generally called adventism, have arisen throughout the Christian era; but they became particularly common during and after the Protestant Reformation. Shakers, Emanuel Swedenborg (who considered the second coming to be symbolic, and to have occurred in 1757), and others developed entire religious systems around a central concern for the second coming of Christ, disclosed by new prophecy or special gifts of revelation. The Millerites are diverse religious groups which similarly rely upon a special gift of interpretation for fixing the date of Christ's return.

The last thing "they" want is to witness the death and destruction of their fellows.

Of course not. They all believe they have been selected for special treatment and a direct route to heaven. It is only the "evil" people (i.e. everybody else) who they expect will suffer, and they believe those evil people deserve their fate.

You are careful to avoid the Word of God so as to steer clear of Divine rebuke...rather then His correction, you prefer the very temporary smug self assurance stemming from arrogance. Oh well, ignorance is bliss as they say..."verily I say unto you, you have your reward."

I'm really not worried about "divine rebuke". But it seems to me that it is not Him attempting to "correct" me, but you. You put yourself in the place of God and then call me arrogant?

 

[pjdude1219]

No, you are showing yours. I never once said Catholics didn't consider themselves to be Christians, did I?:bugeye: The Roman Catholic church is an altogether different matter. It's nothing more than a political money-making enterprise. (My opinon and that of many others as well.)

you said nutter was right and he said catholics were not christians

 

[Adstar]

I understand all your opinions except Hani's.


But it's not about whether the Holy Land was given to the Jews...that much, all Abrahamic religions know (even Islam).

It's about wanting the land for yourself, something that Judaism and Islam have fought for, yet not Christianity? Why is it the odd one out?

Land and cities are not "Holy" Physical things should not be strived for and bowed to like idols.

God is Holy and We Christians believe that the Holy Spirit dwells within us. Therefore we do not focus on land and cities and any other Idols.

We Christians do not need Holy Lands. The kingdom we have is a kingdom of the Spirit that is not of this world. Only when the Messiah Jesus returns will the Spiritual Kingdom become a Physical One.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Photizo:



You are careful to ignore the main point of my post.

They hope for the return of the Lord, and at the same time they believe that the way to hasten that return is to support Israel as a state. They have no greater wish than to bring on the "end times" with all its death and destruction.

While it is true that some are seeking to accelerate the Day of the Lord (The return of the Messiah Jesus) These are very misguided and are doing evil. The Prophet Amos has given them a clear and frightening warning of what they will recieve for their actions.

Amos 5
18 Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD! For what good is the day of the LORD to you? It will be darkness, and not light.

Those who seek to accelerate the day of the Lord will get caught up in the terror of the Day of the Lord.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[geeser]

It is you who misunderstand. In no way have I changed my mind. Reexamine the posts.

ok lets, you said

The Crusades involved Roman Catholics, not Christians. That is a critical distinction.

which means you dont concider Roman Catholics to be Christians.
So I replied with

So there weren't anybody called a Christian until, early 16th century, when Martin Luther started Protestantism, I thought Christianity started with the birth and crucifixion of a person called Jesus, perhaps I'm wrong.
one question though, why did the crusaders wear red crosses on all there attire.
I always believed it was symbolic in regard to the person above, I could be wrong.

which is quite clear that you had stated the Catholics are not Christians, and that's how I understand it, but then you come back with this

Christianity started in the early first century. For example,the term "Christian" was used in Acts 11:26, which corresponds to roughly 42 A.D.

which of course is totally confusing, because Catholism was the first Christian religious sect.
but you said that Catholics are not Christian, hence this come back

so now your saying Catholics are Christian, have you changed your mind, do try to be consistent.

so yes I've re-examined, and I still come to the same conclusion, you think Catholics are not Christians, yet you agree they were the first Christian sect.
please do make up your mind.

 

[Michael]

Most Christians with any amount of power, aka Western countries, live in societies run by secular institutions and have a culture of liking it that way. They don't trust too much religion in their public affairs and so they don't have any means of grabbing those lands. Also, most Christians think Jews lost their land as an atonement for their rejecting Jesus and other sins. In essence it's all Gods will. Lastly, they do support Israel because they see a Jewish State as essential to completing Revelations and the end of the World.

If, Goddess forbid, we in the West lived in a theocracy we'd be poor and backwards and not able to exert any power anyway. But if we did become a theocracy then I'd seriously worry about being Muslim in the ME. If you think Bush Jr. was bad, imagine if he had no secular constitutional leash!

 

[Norsefire]

I do understand what yall are saying about how the property does not mean much, but why not take it? After all, alot of Jerusalem is significant to Christianity, and the Crusades were all about taking it for the Pope.

But why do you no longer desire it? I think it might be because Christianity isn't as "strong" as it used to be. I mean, modern life has made religion all but useless. So that's why there isn't much extremism within Christianity nowadays.

But with Jews and Muslims, religion is very important and I think that might have something to do with it.