A question for theists.

E

EmptyForceOfChi

Banned
Banned
ok, if you were to explain and describe the functions and creation of the universe in theory form how would it be written?. this never seems to be spoke about much as far as i have observed at the forum. if i were to go along witht he god idea in a debate and say ok god created the universe, how did he create it in your opinion, also how does god exist himself? where does god reside. explain it in the same way as another universal philosophy is put forward.


does time effect god, where is the universe situated in accordance to god and heaven, how do both realms interact with each other?. what type of energy would god be made out of?. put forward a logical explanation to show the workings of religious ideas and philosophy. a working model for people to test and think about.


god is laughed at and religion is not as powerful as it used to be with modern generations of people. and rightly so because a half assed idea and notion is put forward for people to just buy into, there is not really any indepth explanation of things which intelligent people need to be able to take something seriously, so im trying to help you theists out a bit in your efforts to spread the word of god. because your corperate image looks a bit crappy at the moment to be honest, try to explain things in a realistic and detailed way which show the idea in action. i think personaly that a god like entity or energy might actualy be the key behind the mystery of the universe, but i came to that thought through a different path, not through religion. so try and explain shit better for people because you might be onto something.


peace.
 
This makes good point.

Theists will say they believe in God...but then, they cant say anything ABOUT this God.

Except to quote vague bible passages.

They believe, but do not understand.
 
Carcano said:
This makes good point.

Theists will say they believe in God...but then, they cant say anything ABOUT this God.

Except to quote vague bible passages.

They believe, but do not understand.
Click to expand...

maybe this can help both atheists and theists at the same time, because both have something to learn. i want to help theists construct a logical philosophy out of it, to encourage them rather than make fun and ridicule.

peace.
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
ok, if you were to explain and describe the functions and creation of the universe in theory form how would it be written?. this never seems to be spoke about much as far as i have observed at the forum. if i were to go along witht he god idea in a debate and say ok god created the universe, how did he create it in your opinion, also how does god exist himself? where does god reside. explain it in the same way as another universal philosophy is put forward.


does time effect god, where is the universe situated in accordance to god and heaven, how do both realms interact with each other?. what type of energy would god be made out of?. put forward a logical explanation to show the workings of religious ideas and philosophy. a working model for people to test and think about.


god is laughed at and religion is not as powerful as it used to be with modern generations of people. and rightly so because a half assed idea and notion is put forward for people to just buy into, there is not really any indepth explanation of things which intelligent people need to be able to take something seriously, so im trying to help you theists out a bit in your efforts to spread the word of god. because your corperate image looks a bit crappy at the moment to be honest, try to explain things in a realistic and detailed way which show the idea in action. i think personaly that a god like entity or energy might actualy be the key behind the mystery of the universe, but i came to that thought through a different path, not through religion. so try and explain shit better for people because you might be onto something.


peace.
Click to expand...

So even after all the laughs and mockery against those who believe in God you come to the conclusion that:

i think personaly that a god like entity or energy might actualy be the key behind the mystery of the universe
Click to expand...

Get ready to be laughed at and mocked yourself.


As for the question.

All we have for sure is in the Scriptures. Everything else cannot be given as solid teachings but only as impressions. I have stated before my impressions about Gods relationship with the universe and time. I think God is separate / independent from the universe and our time.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
i want to help theists construct a logical philosophy out of it, to encourage them rather than make fun and ridicule.

peace.
Click to expand...

What? You already have in your first post.

god is laughed at and religion is not as powerful as it used to be with modern generations of people. and rightly so
Click to expand...



All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
ok, if you were to explain and describe the functions and creation of the universe in theory form how would it be written?. this never seems to be spoke about much as far as i have observed at the forum. if i were to go along witht he god idea in a debate and say ok god created the universe, how did he create it in your opinion, also how does god exist himself? where does god reside. explain it in the same way as another universal philosophy is put forward.

does time effect god, where is the universe situated in accordance to god and heaven, how do both realms interact with each other?. what type of energy would god be made out of?. put forward a logical explanation to show the workings of religious ideas and philosophy. a working model for people to test and think about.


god is laughed at and religion is not as powerful as it used to be with modern generations of people. and rightly so because a half assed idea and notion is put forward for people to just buy into, there is not really any indepth explanation of things which intelligent people need to be able to take something seriously, so im trying to help you theists out a bit in your efforts to spread the word of god. because your corperate image looks a bit crappy at the moment to be honest, try to explain things in a realistic and detailed way which show the idea in action. i think personaly that a god like entity or energy might actualy be the key behind the mystery of the universe, but i came to that thought through a different path, not through religion. so try and explain shit better for people because you might be onto something.


peace.
Click to expand...
these questions you are asking are quite complex and therefore have complex answers - even to explain the nature of the universe according to contemporary empiric ideas requires quite a substantial foundation of theory - needless to say, detailed explanations are available ... but as you have rightly surmised, people in general (even theists, what to speak of atheists) are not interested in such things
 
I'm a theist, more precisely a Christian and more precisely still, Lutheran.

I believe pretty much the same as non-theists concerning the creation of the universe. My differences with non-theists is not about how the universe came to be but about the prime cause of that coming to be.

Non-theist seem to believe that the universe started from nothing and started with no motivating force. I believe the universe started from nothing but that there was a motivating force. I believe that motivating force is God. I see God as the architect of the universe, the prime mover, the designer and the craftsman. That does not negate any theories I know of that are held by non-theists.
 
Adstar said:
What? You already have in your first post.





All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Click to expand...



i think what i said was just and reasonable, you cant just say god created the universe and give no explanation as to how the idea works in reality. its like me saying the universe has 3 realms, and the 1st realm created the other 2 because i said so. without giving any logical attempt at explaining the functions and workings to create a model.


i would expect people to laugh at something like that and demand a realistic explanation to go along with the rough idea. otherwise its just a useless notion without any kind of explanation or true philosophy behind it.


this thread was supposed to help religious people get the idea of god accross to atheists who like myself need logical reasons to take things seriously, im not making fun of theists im making fun of ideas that have no structure to them and are put forward as truths.


instead of using this thread to complain, instead why dont we build up a working model as a group and try to put forth a real working philosophy of god. instead of relying on ancient scriptures that mean jack how about we use our minds and try to figure the universe out?.


peace
 
lightgigantic said:
these questions you are asking are quite complex and therefore have complex answers - even to explain the nature of the universe according to contemporary empiric ideas requires quite a substantial foundation of theory - needless to say, detailed explanations are available ... but as you have rightly surmised, people in general (even theists, what to speak of atheists) are not interested in such things
Click to expand...

i dont think it is all that complex, its not that difficult to write up a working model of how the universe works. ofcourse when we get caught up in the minor details it gets a little confusing, but if we stick to the core foundation of the universes true nature its pretty straight forward.

you basicaly have 3 choices to go with when it comes to universal creation, and 2 of those are linked as a 2-parter. so it comes down to 2 routes, either the universe was created from absolute nothingness and just popped itself into existence one sunny afternoon, or the universe has always existed in some way shape or form. it could be a constant existence or a cycle of flux type events stringed together, either way its still just an eternal continuum.

peace.
 
Adstar said:
I have stated before my impressions about Gods relationship with the universe and time. I think God is separate/independent from the universe and our time.
Click to expand...
*************
M*W: Then god is separate from everything in this universe and our time, which contradicts your belief. Our universe is cyclic, seasonal and repetitive every day, every week, every month, year, etc., so our own creation (regardless of how it occured), and our human perception of time immemorial falls directly into universal time. We can change our clocks, we can move about according to seasonal climates, but we can't change the beginning of all time (yet). All we can do is adapt to the natural times we live within like sunrise, sunset, the solar/lunar effect on our adaptation, and the ability to adapt and live through seasonal changes. Therefore, your god who is separate and independent from the universe (which includes us), and our time as we understand it, couldn't possibly exist.
*************
M*W's Friendly Atheist Quote of the Day:

"It is vain to ask of the gods what a man is capable of supplying for himself." ~ Epicurus
 
Medicine*Woman said:
*************
M*W: Then god is separate from everything in this universe and our time, which contradicts your belief. Our universe is cyclic, seasonal and repetitive every day, every week, every month, year, etc., so our own creation (regardless of how it occured), and our human perception of time immemorial falls directly into universal time. We can change our clocks, we can move about according to seasonal climates, but we can't change the beginning of all time (yet). All we can do is adapt to the natural times we live within like sunrise, sunset, the solar/lunar effect on our adaptation, and the ability to adapt and live through seasonal changes. Therefore, your god who is separate and independent from the universe (which includes us), and our time as we understand it, couldn't possibly exist.
*************
M*W's Friendly Atheist Quote of the Day:

"It is vain to ask of the gods what a man is capable of supplying for himself." ~ Epicurus
Click to expand...



that dont make sense, explain how it means god cannot exist if he were to reside outside of our universal laws of time, i dont get it.


peace.
 
ok morpheus ile get right on that.
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I assume that's to me?

If so, I hope you did. I look forward to reading about any advances or reasoning you arrive at toward your conclusion; if you would?
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
that dont make sense, explain how it means god cannot exist if he were to reside outside of our universal laws of time, i dont get it.
Click to expand...
*************
M*W: Well, as I see it, it does make a difference where a god takes up residence. If he exists in our universe, then he should damn well live in our universe. All we can be sure of is that which we do understand can only be found within the confines of this universe and time. We haven't even touched the surface on that which we understand to reside outside of this universe. We have ideas, but we have no proof. Even those visitors to Roswell, NM, in 1947, were residing in this universe. How they got here, I don't know, nor do I know for sure they were real.

If god should exist, he exists only in our minds and, therefore, our minds reside in THIS universe.

Capisce?
 
If by God, you refer to an unconscious, formless mass of energy, then I would say it's probable that a god exists. Why not? The only problem I have is people calling that which created the universe conscious or purposeful. Like... how?

Anyway, you're not going to use logic to discover the answer to this question. Because, apparently, current technology and human limitations are incapable of perceiving such an answer. Theories will remain theories; no one will have incontrovertible proof.

The bible is just a few words, after all. How can I prevent boredom throughout perhaps 60 years with a book?

I need more books, more talkingness, more new experiences.
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
i dont think it is all that complex, its not that difficult to write up a working model of how the universe works. ofcourse when we get caught up in the minor details it gets a little confusing, but if we stick to the core foundation of the universes true nature its pretty straight forward.

you basicaly have 3 choices to go with when it comes to universal creation, and 2 of those are linked as a 2-parter. so it comes down to 2 routes, either the universe was created from absolute nothingness and just popped itself into existence one sunny afternoon, or the universe has always existed in some way shape or form. it could be a constant existence or a cycle of flux type events stringed together, either way its still just an eternal continuum.

peace.
Click to expand...
so the link offers the suggestion of an oscillating universe that goes through incredibly ancient cyclic stages of manifestation and non-manifestation and that time and matter are eternal contingent potencies of god
 
Hmmm... this isn't going to answer your question but what the hell...

I am NOT christian but I do believe in a higher power. What I believe to be "God" is unlike what most believe believe the characteristics of God to be.

This about it like this... Compare a cell to a body. Now, think of the Earth as a cell. The equivalent to a body is what I believe to be god. Im sure it doesn't make sense to most, but it does to me.

I believe that the Earth and all its creatures are just a microscopic spec but is part of a greater being that we have not yet had the scientific means to understand.
 
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