a question for Islam from a western mind

Re: Re: Re: Islam: can true belief be achieved at the end of a gun?

Originally posted by Randolfo

Circular thinking, circular beliefs, islam is a cult, islam is backwards Christianity, you believe everything that that backward angel believes, & that backward prophet, look in the mirror, you do not believe in God, Tell us, what did your prophet do? Why only war, rape, pillage, child molesting, liar. A fine example for the ages, a fine example for the masses, a fine example for us all. Let’s use him as our example, let's start now, right? [/B]

Oh yeah........let us read about how Peaceful christianity is by looking at the bible:

2KI NGS2:23-24 Forty-two children are mauled and killed, presumably according to the will of God, for having jeered at a man of God

2KINGS 6:29 "So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, 'Give up your son so we may eat him,' but she had hidden him.

2KINGS 9:30-37 Jehu has Jezebel killed. Her body is trampled by horses. Dogs eat her flesh so that only her skull, feet, and the palms of her hands remain

2KINGS 10:7 Jehu has Ahab's seventy sons beheaded, then sends the heads to their father.

2KINGS 10:17 "And when he came to Samaria, he slew all that remained to Ahab in Samaria, till he had wiped them out, according to the word of the Lord ...."

2KINGS 19:35 An angel of the Lord kills 185,000 men. LOOK HOW MERCIFUL THE CHRISTIAN LORD, HE SEND ONE OF HIS ANGELS TO MURDER 180,000 MEN !!! VERY COMPASSIONATE

PSALMS 144:1 God is praised as the one who trains hands for war and fingers for battle

EZEKIEL 9:4-6 The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women ...."

Read more about the PEACE in Christianity here:

http://www.evilbible.com

http://www.answering-christianity.com
 
Originally posted by Quantum Quack
can I ask your opinion as to the state of the arab world today?


Maybe thats a good question in it self.

What has the faith achieved for the followers?

You should ask aboyt the MUSLIM world, the arabs constitute only 13% of all 2 billion muslims around the globe.

most of the muslim world was living under crude christian colonial oppression, after crushing them, we started our development and we have already great success MUSLIM stories like DUBAI, UAE, MALAYSIA ( a muslim state on the top 15 of the most developed in the WORLD ).

Indonesia, the largest muslim country in the world, has a MUSLIM WOMAN as its president, I am wondering when you guys in America will elect a woman as your president ???????????????

Islam is great religion, it motivates change and development, look as SPAIN, look what ISLAM did to Spain between 711-1492 AD, Spain was backward state living in darkness, illness, ignorance, diseases and withcraft until the light of Islam came and turned into the most advanced state in the old world....HERE YOU HAVE NON-MUSLIM WESTERN HISTORIAN TALK ABOUT IT:

'' When you think of European culture, one of the first things that may come to your mind is the renaissance. Many of the roots of European culture can be traced back to that glorious time of art, science, commerce and architecture. But did you know that long before the renaissance there was a place of humanistic beauty in Muslim Spain? Not only was it artistic, scientific and commercial, but it also exhibited incredible tolerance, imagination and poetry. Moors, as the Spaniards call the Muslims, populated Spain for nearly 700 years.As you'll see, it was their civilization that enlightened Europe and brought it out of the dark ages to usher in the renaissance. Many of their cultural and intellectual influences still live with us today

http://www.xmission.com/~dderhak/index/moors.htm
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Islam: can true belief be achieved at the end of a gun?

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
Oh yeah........let us read about how Peaceful christianity is by looking at the bible:
Read more about the PEACE in Christianity here:

http://www.evilbible.com

http://www.answering-christianity.com
Boolean exclusive OR: either Christianity is true or islam is true, not both
http://www.delphibasics.co.uk/RTL.asp?Name=Xor

Islam has it backwards, what is a martyr, an angel, an apostle, how do you submit to God, how do you practice fasting or prayer?

Examples on martyrdom from Christianity: Stephen from Acts of the Apostles 7:59-60:
While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”
Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this against them.”
When he said this, he fell asleep.
Examples on martyrdom from islam: It’s a bomb! read the papers, use your browser, it’s
backwards

Examples on fasting from Jesus from Matthew 6: 16-18:
“When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their
faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their
reward in full. But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that
it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is
unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Examples on fasting from islam: during Ramadan, muslims fast during the day, then feast
at night, read the papers, use your browser, if you don’t believe me it’s backwards

Examples on prayer from Jesus from Matthew 6: 5-8:
“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing
in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth,
they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room,
close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who
sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep
babbling like pagans, for they think they will be head because of their many
words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you
ask him.
Examples on prayer from islam: as one of the 5 pillars of islam, prayer is out in the open
5 times a day so that everyone must do it, it’s backwards

Examples on being sent by God from Jesus Matthew 7: 15-16:
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly
they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick
grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles?
Examples on being sent by doG from islam: it’s backwards

Examples on lying angels from Galatians 1: 6-9:
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the
grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel – which is really no gospel
at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to
pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should
preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a
gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
Examples of lying angels from islam: who is this Jibril, what is the quran, if not a false
gospel? it’s backwards

Examples from the Bible on prophethood from Deuteronomy 18:21-22:
You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been
spoken by the LORD?” If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD
does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken.
That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.
Examples from islam on prophethood: want to marry your daughter-in-law, why as a
false prophet, you can make the quran say anything you want, just ask Ayesha
complain about Mohammad’s quran. it’s backwards
http://derafsh-kaviyani.com/english/women2.html

Examples on apostles from Jesus from Matthew 4: 18-19:
As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon
called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for
they were fishermen. “Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers
of men.”
Examples on apostles from islam: Mohammad called by Jibril, a lying angel (known to average
people as a demon ), then confirmed by his wife (how did she know what’s true?),
it’s backwards

Examples of who Jesus is from Peter before the Sanhedrin in Acts of the Apostles
4:10-12:
Then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ
of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this
man stands before you healed. He is
“ ‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the capstone’
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to
men by which we are saved.”
Examples of who Jesus is from islam: a muslim prophet, didn’t die on the cross for the
forgiveness of sins. Why different from Christianity? because it’s backwards

Examples from Jesus on believers from Matthew 7: 13-14:
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that
leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow
the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Examples from islam on believers: go to war against nonbelievers, force conversions by
the point of a sword, it’s backwards

Examples from Paul on temptation from 2 Corinthians 12: 7-9:
To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great
revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from satan, to
torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he
said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in
weakness.”
Examples from Mohammad on temptation: wants to marry a 6 year old kid? why as a
false prophet, you can make the quran say anything you want, do anything you
want. Why? Because it’s backwards

Examples of the crucifixion from Matthew 27: 35-40:
When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots. And
sitting down, they kept watch over him there. Above his head they placed the
written charge against him: THIS IS JESUS, KING OF THE JEWS. Two robbers
were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. Those who passed
by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads and saying, “You who would
destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the
cross, if you are the Son of God!”
Examples of the crucifixion from islam: never happened, doG put someone else on the
cross, that looked like Jesus, read the quran it’s backwards

Examples from Paul on joy from Philippians 4: 4-5:
Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.
Examples from islam on joy: you’ve already heard about the reaction to 9/11 at the
refugee camps, it’s backwards
http://www.ourenemies.org/9-11.htm

Examples of what Heaven is like from Jesus in Matthew 22: 29-30:
Jesus replied, “ You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.”
Examples of what heaven is like from islam: you’ve already heard about the 70 virgins,
right? Hmmm, virgins, now what do you suppose they are needed for? it’s backwards

Examples of the beast in Revelation 13: 18:
This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the
beast, for it is man’s number. His number is 666.
Examples of the beast in islam: the dragon is Jibril, the beast is Mohammad

Examples of the abomination that causes desolation from Matthew 24: 15:
“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’
spoken of through the prophet Daniel – let the reader understand
Examples of the abomination that causes desolation from islam: muslims take Jerusalem
in 638, build the Al-Aqsa Mosque over the Jewish Temple mount. it’s backwards

Examples on God’s name from the Bible Exodus 3: 14:
God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM, This is what you are to say to the
Israelites, ‘I AM has sent me to you’ “
Examples on doG’s name from islam: Did God forget his name? who is this allah? Why
did doG change his name? Because it’s backwards

How many muslims will make it to heaven? None, only Christian muslims, those that have submitted to Christ.

What would Mohammad do? Why fight, rape, war, murder, read the quran & the Hadiths, if you don’t believe me, .

A typical muslim is backwards, they are milsum. So that’s what muslims practice, backwards Christianity!

What is heaven like? Who is God? If you’re not a Christian, you’ll never know the truth.
 
May I add to this thread,

As Randolfo quite aptly states, Christianity was founded on the basis of compassion and forgiveness. These being the hallmarks of this religion. Sure they sometimes get it back ward too.

Forgive them Father for they know not what they do.

The act of Christ was devoted to the inspiration of true belief and not constructed belief ( for God knows what you will pray before you do so)

To take pride in how religious you are is not the teaching of Christ from what I have read.

And maybe this is why the Christians are in a state of conflict because it could be saifd that human nature makes their relationship to true belief very difficult.

The reason I started this thread was because of the main difference in the pride factor and the transperancy of aggressive evangelism that Islam portrays.

True belief is not something you need to demonstrate to any one.

True belief requires no witness other than what you believe in.

True belief doesn't require prayer mats and ceremony.

True belief does not come with a bomb or gun.

True belief does not need a book to keep you believing.

True belief is only your personal relationship with what you believe.

True belief can be found with the help of patient mentors who know that the journey is of the pupil and not the teacher.

True belief is not the belief of the mentor as true belief is ONLY the property of the believer and not a COPY of someone elses beliefs.

I think the message of Christ spells this out quite well and even though I don't "believe" in the teachings of the Church I certainly admire and respect this message.

What teachings of Islam inspire genuine belief do you think?

Does Islam show a path towards peace by forgiveness? or does it show peace by use of force?

For maybe I am ignorant in my comments.
 
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