global warming?? tut tut you americans! tut tut.
A Note: Global Warming Threads
- Thread starter Tristan
- Start date
And no tut in UK?
Well, not to such an extent. I think you'd have to agree. Here,in the UK, i think there is much more of a general awareness of the matter. Everywhere you look, in most headlines every week, there is evidence of people attempting to better the situation, or at least, draw attention to it.
I could be mistaken, but i dont think the same is true of the USA.
Oh right, ok.
Just out of interest.....why California?
Just out of interest.....why California?
Just a NOTE to the people of Earth Science
You are still free to post other threads on global warming, but I would HIGHLY suggest reading back a bit to the other zillion threads on the same topic. Doing this will give you a feeling for the type of discussion and the few nuts around here who know too much about the subject
#1. Ill start off with this: Can we please make a list of ONLY FACTS which are 100% guaranteed to be true. From this list, we can do a type of Fermi problem or logic problem to see if, given the facts that we know for sure, global warming truly is an issue. It'll be fun
#2. I think many will agree (and many will disagree for that matter), that it is not a question of IF global warming is occuring, but rather WHY.
From my understanding, we have proof that the earth has gone from being really warm, to really cold, to inbetween and back through the list again several times.
#3. There are some people who will disagree with you completely and think you are a lunatic (that goes for both sides of the argument). There are compeling arguments on both sides and really, its an discussion that wont have a clear victor for many years. Be mindful of this please! In other words, when persuading or discussing, despite being exasperated, do not resort to petty insults. They only make you A.) look like a fool and B.) invalidate everything you have said in the minds of other people (generally).
Most of all, have fun! This is Science and the only way science goes anywhere, is by discussion. We can all agree that despite the fact that there might not be a right answer, the discussion will enrich our lives and broaden our horizons. The only thing that can happen is that you will become more effective and intellecutal in discussion as a result of being exposed to the opposite side of the tracks.
Enjoy.
T
and a fifth point would be :
Always agree with Rick, no matter what.
just kidding guys. Excellent forum, been looking around it a bit.
Rick.
Californian
Registered Member
Is there climate change? Absolutely! It is happening now and has been happening for hundreds of thousands of years. My complaint is the climate change hoaxers who insist on using junk science to advance outrageous and alarmist prophecies. Case in point is the climate models they must depend upon to make their outrageous claims. All the models contain "fudge factors" in an attempt to make them work. If the models had any validity at all they could test them by going back in time and testing them against known history.
They fail this test miserably in all cases. Climatologist Patrick Michaels reviewed the 2001 U.S. Climate Action Report that was part of the U.S. National Assesment findings and had this to say; " The USNA is based on a true miscarriage of science; it is based upon two models for future projections of climate that perform worse than a table of random numbers when applied to recent climate."
They fail this test miserably in all cases. Climatologist Patrick Michaels reviewed the 2001 U.S. Climate Action Report that was part of the U.S. National Assesment findings and had this to say; " The USNA is based on a true miscarriage of science; it is based upon two models for future projections of climate that perform worse than a table of random numbers when applied to recent climate."
Californian
Registered Member
California because I was born there, (had no say) and still live there in a remote area. Independent, leaning conservative, and a skeptic in most things that depend on emotional or political ideals that cannot be proven by facts or deep investigation.
Californian
Registered Member
In the interests of true scientific study; I would like to know if anyone can inform me of a climate model that stands up to the challenge of comparison with past climate history?
mmmmmmmmmmmm???
mmmmmmmmmmmm???
I think discussions is useless, action is necessary, if it is or isn't happening is irrelevant, if it isn't happening changing now would do nothing but clean up our air and put us on inexhaustible energy supplies... oh the horror! If it is happen changing now would clean up our air, put us on inexhaustible energy supplies and prevent massive loss of coast line and fresh water supply for centuries to come.
Why don't you try it your self: heat up a balloon of air, note it expanding and see if its temperature drops because of the expansion. True greater surface area would increase the rate of cooling but it does little: some factors are more capable then others.
I agree in action to clean up pollution and get us off the oil. BUT, I completely disagree in the method some activists are using to get it done.
Namely, using questionable "science" to create a world-wide alarmist state to mandate radical policies to alter society the way they want. "Human caused" climate change up to this point has been based on cherry-picked weather situations, indirect evidence, and computer models created by those pushing the "human caused" global warming hysteria.
I'm sure most people remember after Hurricane Katrina how "human caused" global warming "experts" predicted more and worse hurricanes for the Atlantic in 2006 & 2007. Guess what, there were virtually NONE in 2006 & 2007. So now they've revised their models to predict less but more intense hurricanes....
So basically these "human caused" global warming "scientists" are making all kinds of models that will cover just about anything that will happen, then they cherry-pick the model that currently fits what's happening, and then they say "see, it's what we predicted"
Have you ever seen the computer models left running?
In the videos they only ever show you up to a point, simply because if they let it run, you would see the earth turn very, very, RED.
If the 'experts' can't even understand computational mathematics then why should they understand the term 'natural cycle' ?
Also it's funny how these 'scientists' the politicians quote, never have names!!!!
Someone should take a closer look at the global surface temperature chart, to my eyes it looks very much like a chart showing global radio frequency usage over time.
A police study in the uk found that 1/4 watt transmitters were cooking the optic nerves in officers. If transmitters can cook tissue then they can surely effect thermometer readings?????
Aren't most weather stations based around airports and universities? Don't they both use incredibly powerful transmitters?
Maybe they should stop using satelite transponders to communicate the temperature readings at sea.
One last thought is this, why doesn't someone do some real science with a pair of analogue temperature recorders, a faraday cage/tent and a few powerful transmitters.
In the videos they only ever show you up to a point, simply because if they let it run, you would see the earth turn very, very, RED.
If the 'experts' can't even understand computational mathematics then why should they understand the term 'natural cycle' ?
Also it's funny how these 'scientists' the politicians quote, never have names!!!!
Someone should take a closer look at the global surface temperature chart, to my eyes it looks very much like a chart showing global radio frequency usage over time.
A police study in the uk found that 1/4 watt transmitters were cooking the optic nerves in officers. If transmitters can cook tissue then they can surely effect thermometer readings?????
Aren't most weather stations based around airports and universities? Don't they both use incredibly powerful transmitters?
Maybe they should stop using satelite transponders to communicate the temperature readings at sea.
One last thought is this, why doesn't someone do some real science with a pair of analogue temperature recorders, a faraday cage/tent and a few powerful transmitters.
Last edited:
kmguru
Staff member
It is difficult to understand active feedback loops, since these loops have their own transfer functions. On top of that, humans are injecting changes in a way that is difficult to predict. So, the only pragmatic solution is to see the passive trend similar to watching the stock market's general direction rather than a companies specific behind the scence activities.
Sometimes ago, NSF floated a bid proposal to plant a huge amount of sensors around the world and develop a new model of the planet. The U.S. Navy wanted to do the same. Where that is today, I do not know....
My grapefruit tree is growing in northern louisiana...so something is not kosher here.....
I agree in action to clean up pollution and get us off the oil. BUT, I completely disagree in the method some activists are using to get it done.
Namely, using questionable "science" to create a world-wide alarmist state to mandate radical policies to alter society the way they want. "Human caused" climate change up to this point has been based on cherry-picked weather situations, indirect evidence, and computer models created by those pushing the "human caused" global warming hysteria.
I'm sure most people remember after Hurricane Katrina how "human caused" global warming "experts" predicted more and worse hurricanes for the Atlantic in 2006 & 2007. Guess what, there were virtually NONE in 2006 & 2007. So now they've revised their models to predict less but more intense hurricanes....
So basically these "human caused" global warming "scientists" are making all kinds of models that will cover just about anything that will happen, then they cherry-pick the model that currently fits what's happening, and then they say "see, it's what we predicted"
I don't think this is a case of waging the dog. Weather is essentially unpredictable, trends in weather are not, if their predictions of more hurricanes over 2000-2050 turns out wrong, then I'll believe you, but if you pick 2006-2007 and say "look they are wrong!" well that just cherry picking
I'm more discussed in why peak oil is not consider a more serious issue, global warming is essentially adaptable but peak oil is happening too quickly to "adapt" as oil prices continues to rise up global economy will continue to grind to a halt.