A new possible way to prevent AIDS

[invert_nexus]

Idle Mind,

Thanks for the answer, I don't know where I got it in my head that malaria was caused by a virus. It makes much more sense now. But, I do wonder if there is, perhaps infinitessemal, a small chance of contracting HIV through a mosquito bite. Couldn't some of the virus attach to the proboscis of the the mosquito, never making it into the gut? It would be much the same as a dirty needle, although I guess needles are coated on the inside with virus because junkies draw back blood, I think. It is a certain relief and also a bit of a disappointment. If it were only that simple, eh? It would also help explain why Aids is so bad in equatorial Africa. The malaria zone.

By the way, I'll forgive you for calling me Wes. The collective is rather confusing...


Geistkiesel,

I know too little of the subject to comment on the possibilities that Aids is not caused by a virus. It would be better if it weren't though, wouldn't it? We haven't found a cure for the common cold, that doesn't give us much hope for Aids (from a virus perspective).

 

[Idle Mind]

Yeah, sorry about that...in the one thread that Wes started in Free Thoughts "More of ME" or something, I thought he was having a conversation with himself because I only glanced at the avatars. Sorry about that.

I don't think that the probability of contracting AIDS from a mosquito bite is calculable. The reason AIDS is rampant is due to other factors (remember, there is no correlation between malaria and mosquitoes per se, only the type of mosquito, and there is no direct correlation between AIDS and malaria).

 

[BigBlueHead]

Another fraudulent scientist joins the fray. I, geistkiesel "believeing in psychic phenmomena" and "homeopathic " medicine is being pedantic? about the causes of AIDS.? What do you have to offer to the discussion other than insults and character assasination and the attempt to blunt what I g=have to say in this matter. I care not one wit about what you call me you ersatz scientist creep.What are you some kind of holier than thou mainline propagandist? All your crap about viruses have absolutely nothing to do with proving that HIV causes AIDS or not.

The suim totality of your post was to distract and to orient the converstaion along the prevailing propganda created line. I asked only that soem responsible governmemtn official state what he NIH uses as proof. They claim often enough like this dismal human failure here, bigblewhed, so just prove it, or keep yout mouth shut.

Did you know blue h=hed that more people die from using prescribed medicines than use some called "illegal drugs". Thee is no manufactured drug bthat safe for th e public, it is all a numbers game. The industry merely maintains a pool to pay off th eones they cripple. This is your medicine? The US Government has a massive nmedicare drug purchasing program where one can give their tax money to the drug comopanies to the tune of a trillion dollars over the next ten years to purchase questionably safe and useful drugs,
I cannot conceive that a human being in this country can adopt an attitude of corrupted conversation on a system of learning. I think someone pays you to be snide, condescending and stupid.

K, first of all, you should find out what "pedantic" means.

Second - If I had a nickel for every time I was accused of being a propaganda-spreading disinformation agent for an evil conspiracy I'd be rich by now. So far I have covered up UFOs, alien wars on other planets in our solar system, alien artifacts on Mars, doctored NASA photos... and of course, the murderous allopathic system of medicine. My MIB-ness is a many-splendoured thing. Apparently. It is almost as if the first line of defense for any bullshitter is to accuse their opponents of being evil conspiratorial murdering doctor aliens, or some similar thing.

Third, since you believe diseases are caused by evil spirits, I am sure that most of the people here on the Biology and Genetics forum deserve to know this little fact before engaging in a medical discussion with you. I agree that telling people that you believe in evil spirits is insulting you since I am basically telling them that you're a moron who will believe anything, but since you've said the same about yourself, you can't really complain can you?

Fourth - screw you and the horse you rode in on, you quack.

 

[geistkiesel]

Yeah, sorry about that...in the one thread that Wes started in Free Thoughts "More of ME" or something, I thought he was having a conversation with himself because I only glanced at the avatars. Sorry about that.

I don't think that the probability of contracting AIDS from a mosquito bite is calculable. The reason AIDS is rampant is due to other factors (remember, there is no correlation between malaria and mosquitoes per se, only the type of mosquito, and there is no direct correlation between AIDS and malaria).

Also, there is no causal conection between HIV and AIDS.
Who has unambiguous proof of the existence of HIV and
who has proved the causal connection?

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Also, there is no causal conection between HIV and AIDS.
Who has unambiguous proof of the existence of HIV and
who has proved the causal connection?

Plenty of people.

 

[geistkiesel]

K, first of all, you should find out what "pedantic" means.

Second - If I had a nickel for every time I was accused of being a propaganda-spreading disinformation agent for an evil conspiracy I'd be rich by now. So far I have covered up UFOs, alien wars on other planets in our solar system, alien artifacts on Mars, doctored NASA photos... and of course, the murderous allopathic system of medicine. My MIB-ness is a many-splendoured thing. Apparently. It is almost as if the first line of defense for any bullshitter is to accuse their opponents of being evil conspiratorial murdering doctor aliens, or some similar thing.

Third, since you believe diseases are caused by evil spirits, I am sure that most of the people here on the Biology and Genetics forum deserve to know this little fact before engaging in a medical discussion with you. I agree that telling people that you believe in evil spirits is insulting you since I am basically telling them that you're a moron who will believe anything, but since you've said the same about yourself, you can't really complain can you?

Fourth - screw you and the horse you rode in on, you quack.

You lying shit. I never said diseases are caused by evil spirits, unless of course you are referring to dick heads posing as legitimate people limke yourself. I suppose that educated ignorance, the point iof the propagandist, is a disease. Now if someone would just come up with a vaccine?.
Hey, it is so easy for you who has all the infornmation on AIDS. Prove HIV causes AIDS and then you can legitimately point to me with your caustic inanities, you shit.

 

[BigBlueHead]

You wave your conjecture around and then demand proof from me?

The fact that you believe in homeopathic medicine is proof enough that you believe in VF - hence, evil spirits cause disease in your book, or "anomalies in the vital force" if you like that term better. You call me a liar when you're playing both sides of the fence, and I'm nasty enough to point it out... well, too bad. Try the "leading questions" trick when you're less of a moron.

 

[geistkiesel]

The difference, invert, is that malaria is caused by a parasite, not a virus. The parasite (a single celled flagellate of the genera Plasmodium) has to physically "swim" to the salivary glands of the mosquito, and requires the particular conditions found in the mosquito's gut for reproduction (the mosquito is the definitive host). HIV particles would be destroyed in the gut, and become useless.

I missed your analysis when you first posted. The origin and etiology of the malaria pathogen as you described is very clear. You get my belated A for the day.

 

[geistkiesel]

K, first of all, you should find out what "pedantic" means.

Second - If I had a nickel for every time I was accused of being a propaganda-spreading disinformation agent for an evil conspiracy I'd be rich by now. So far I have covered up UFOs, alien wars on other planets in our solar system, alien artifacts on Mars, doctored NASA photos... and of course, the murderous allopathic system of medicine. My MIB-ness is a many-splendoured thing. Apparently. It is almost as if the first line of defense for any bullshitter is to accuse their opponents of being evil conspiratorial murdering doctor aliens, or some similar thing.

Third, since you believe diseases are caused by evil spirits, I am sure that most of the people here on the Biology and Genetics forum deserve to know this little fact before engaging in a medical discussion with you. I agree that telling people that you believe in evil spirits is insulting you since I am basically telling them that you're a moron who will believe anything, but since you've said the same about yourself, you can't really complain can you?

Fourth - screw you and the horse you rode in on, you quack.

For all of you following this thread i urge you to see a very basic element of law here. We all know what hearsay is, basically hearsay is a rumor. If I were to say that "bigbluehead is a paid propagandist" one could dismiss the accusation as being hearsay. However, there are exceptiosn to the hearsay rule and one f those exceptions would be in the form that I geistkiesel, say and i do that "bigbluehead told me he was a propaganist, but in fact much much more insidious than even I had imagined". Well what is the exception to the hearsay rule here? If soenmione con fesses to an act that hold the confessor as culpable in some criminal act, for instance, or admits owing money that is contested say, then that admission can be used as an exception to the hearsay rule.

The public confession of a social monster, much moe evil and insidious than originally described. Don't we have policewomen and policemen to take this kind of trash off the streets?:

I"f I had a nickel for every time I was accused of being a propaganda-spreading disinformation agent for an evil conspiracy I'd be rich by now. So far I have covered up UFOs, alien wars on other planets in our solar system, alien artifacts on Mars, doctored NASA photos... and of course, the murderous allopathic system of medicine. My MIB-ness is a many-splendoured thing. Apparently. It is almost as if the first line of defense for any bullshitter is to accuse their opponents of being evil conspiratorial murdering doctor aliens, or some similar thing."
Confessed by bigbluehead on 05-23-04 @ 9:29 P.M. GMT.

Why would thousands of people accuse this man, or assembly of people of being an evil agent, unless these people saw what I saw? bubleblackhead confessed. AS an afterthought I am reminded of the tone, and substance of bubleblack head's post. Like the advwrtising industry (propaganda mills etc) is well aawre, repetition sells.

See how bubleblackhead hides his evil. he accuses others of believing in "evil spirits" thought of as wispy ghostly entities, which distracts from the manifest evil in the human form that bubbleblackhead is found. pop this MF from existence.

 

[geistkiesel]

Idle Mind,

Thanks for the answer, I don't know where I got it in my head that malaria was caused by a virus. It makes much more sense now. But, I do wonder if there is, perhaps infinitessemal, a small chance of contracting HIV through a mosquito bite. Couldn't some of the virus attach to the proboscis of the the mosquito, never making it into the gut? It would be much the same as a dirty needle, although I guess needles are coated on the inside with virus because junkies draw back blood, I think. It is a certain relief and also a bit of a disappointment. If it were only that simple, eh? It would also help explain why Aids is so bad in equatorial Africa. The malaria zone.

By the way, I'll forgive you for calling me Wes. The collective is rather confusing...


Geistkiesel,

I know too little of the subject to comment on the possibilities that Aids is not caused by a virus. It would be better if it weren't though, wouldn't it? We haven't found a cure for the common cold, that doesn't give us much hope for Aids (from a virus perspective).

Your Common Cold vs AIDS is really a non sequitur, but the information on the subject is huge as is information on the common cold. The link I posted below opens many doors. Some might say the link is biased and therefore the information should be dismissed. This is crazy though as any debater could accuse his opponent of the same thing and therefore claim victory just because she has an admitted biased opponent. On the other hand if you could win the debate with such an arguement it might be worth a try. What do you think?

Try this AIDS link as a starting point for information on AIDS.

 

[BigBlueHead]

Well, here we have it, folks. One of the "crusaders" has tried to use the spectre of legal actionability to terrify poor little "disinformation agent" me. Maybe he'll have me evicted from my slime pit!

If soenmione con fesses to an act that hold the confessor as culpable in some criminal act, for instance, or admits owing money that is contested say, then that admission can be used as an exception to the hearsay rule.

The public confession of a social monster, much moe evil and insidious than originally described. Don't we have policewomen and policemen to take this kind of trash off the streets?:

That's right, geist. I am the hobgoblin in your closet... I am the terrible thing that follows behind you in the dark... I am the heart of your nightmares.

Or actually, no. And neither did I "confess to culpability in a criminal act". Let's look back at my statements there, armchair lawyer.

If I had a nickel for every time I was accused of being a propaganda-spreading disinformation agent for an evil conspiracy I'd be rich by now.

If I had a nickel for every time I was accused, this would still be neither proof of wrongdoing nor a confession.

So far I have covered up UFOs, alien wars on other planets in our solar system, alien artifacts on Mars, doctored NASA photos... and of course, the murderous allopathic system of medicine.

Non-jackasses might understand that this sentence, couched in the context of the sentence right before it, continues to describe the accusations made by others and hence is not a description of actions I have actually performed.

My MIB-ness is a many-splendoured thing. Apparently.

Once again, the sentence fragment containing the word "Apparently" modifies the sentence before it to be a description of appearance and not fact; a reasonable person would then assume that this passage also describes the accusations that others have made.

It is almost as if the first line of defense for any bullshitter is to accuse their opponents of being evil conspiratorial murdering doctor aliens, or some similar thing.

This statement questions your arguing tactics as resembling those of other crazies who accuse their opponents of being conspirators, much as you have done.

And lastly,

Why would thousands of people accuse this man, or assembly of people of being an evil agent, unless these people saw what I saw?

This kind of evidence is what we call hearsay.

So why are you yammering about legal actionability? You don't seem to know much about the law... perhaps your next statement will be about how, when the revolution comes, I will be the first one up against the wall. That is usually what conspiracy theorists say.

Also, your AIDS link doesn't seem to work.

 

[Idle Mind]

His link works fine for me. However, it's a biased site based on the BS he's spouting.

 

[geistkiesel]

Well, here we have it, folks. One of the "crusaders" has tried to use the spectre of legal actionability to terrify poor little "disinformation agent" me. Maybe he'll have me evicted from my slime pit!



That's right, geist. I am the hobgoblin in your closet... I am the terrible thing that follows behind you in the dark... I am the heart of your nightmares.

Or actually, no. And neither did I "confess to culpability in a criminal act". Let's look back at my statements there, armchair lawyer.



If I had a nickel for every time I was accused, this would still be neither proof of wrongdoing nor a confession.



Non-jackasses might understand that this sentence, couched in the context of the sentence right before it, continues to describe the accusations made by others and hence is not a description of actions I have actually performed.



Once again, the sentence fragment containing the word "Apparently" modifies the sentence before it to be a description of appearance and not fact; a reasonable person would then assume that this passage also describes the accusations that others have made.



This statement questions your arguing tactics as resembling those of other crazies who accuse their opponents of being conspirators, much as you have done.

And lastly,



This kind of evidence is what we call hearsay.

So why are you yammering about legal actionability? You don't seem to know much about the law... perhaps your next statement will be about how, when the revolution comes, I will be the first one up against the wall. That is usually what conspiracy theorists say.

Also, your AIDS link doesn't seem to work.

Why would thousand of people acuse you of being a propagandist? WHY WOULD YOU CONFESS TO THIS?, UNLESS OF COURSE YOU ARE GUILTY? Maybe it is because, you act like one, you talk like one, you smell like one. You do not indicate any curiosity OR scientific zeal. You try to DESTROY with distractions. You are a pest.

You aren't anything that scares me. You are just a rat with no scientific abilty, zero, none, nor do you manifest any desire to learn anything. You are a pest..

I just tested the link, it is working fine. Do you know how to use your cursor?

 

[geistkiesel]

His link works fine for me. However, it's a biased site based on the BS he's spouting.

What BS? Exactly, if you please? There are references to many scientific papers in the link and quotations from Nobel Prize winning biologists and other notables. What and whre is the BS? You said it. Point it out. Are we merely spouting opinions?

 

[BigBlueHead]

Geist, geist, geist.

I already learned enough about homeopathic medicine from others like you, and your rejection of the theory of virus pathogenicity is nothing new to me at all. The point, and let me make this extremely clear since you barely seem to read things before going into a tirade, is:

Homeopathy rejects conventional medicine and calls it murder. However, homeopathic medicine is not - even if it worked as advertised - sufficient to replace conventional medicine, so its wholesale rejection of the conventional form is not supportable.
Homeopathy is rooted in a series of principles which, if we were to believe them, would require the abandonment not only of conventional medicine, but of all of modern chemistry, physics, and biology. The presence of a Vital Force has never been verified, the concept of "like cures like" does not make any sense, and the belief that substances always have a stronger effect when they are more diluted is a basic denial of chemical principles.

In short, you would have me throw away all of modern science and believe in your magical snake oil. I will not, and this should not surprise you.

Like all homeopathic believers, you argue like a priest. Chemical principles are verifiable; VF is not. Homeopathy is an unproven mess of wishful thinking.

 

[geistkiesel]

Geist, geist, geist.

I already learned enough about homeopathic medicine from others like you, and your rejection of the theory of virus pathogenicity is nothing new to me at all. The point, and let me make this extremely clear since you barely seem to read things before going into a tirade, is:

Homeopathy rejects conventional medicine and calls it murder. However, homeopathic medicine is not - even if it worked as advertised - sufficient to replace conventional medicine, so its wholesale rejection of the conventional form is not supportable.
Homeopathy is rooted in a series of principles which, if we were to believe them, would require the abandonment not only of conventional medicine, but of all of modern chemistry, physics, and biology. The presence of a Vital Force has never been verified, the concept of "like cures like" does not make any sense, and the belief that substances always have a stronger effect when they are more diluted is a basic denial of chemical principles.

In short, you would have me throw away all of modern science and believe in your magical snake oil. I will not, and this should not surprise you.

Like all homeopathic believers, you argue like a priest. Chemical principles are verifiable; VF is not. Homeopathy is an unproven mess of wishful thinking.

Why do you bring homeopathy into the thread? To accuse me of something? More people die each year from the intake iof legal drugs than illegal drugs. 100,000 plus. Anti-biotics are the most dangerous class of drugs on the market. All prescription drugs have harnful side effects. Only after introduction into the mass market do the really insidious affects get noticed.

Take your litle daugher to the doctor's office. He checks her out, gives you a prescription for the love of your life, and tells you to return in three weeks. You agree and leave with your sweet daughter. What was just described?
Hint: You have just been the appointed leader in your daughter's drug experiment.

The next time your conventional doctor tells you something sounding like a medical concluision ask your doctor to "prove it" to you. This will only embarrass him, so let it go. It probably isn't important anyway, is it? Your health I mean.

 

[BigBlueHead]

Why do you bring homeopathy into the thread?

Considering that you've already mentioned your alliance with homeopathic medicine in another thread, I would never believe that you've abandoned it for this discussion.

Certainly, the fact that the "virusmyth" website uses the existence of other retroviruses as part of their evidence:

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/epreplyek.htm

It may not be possible for "HIV" but animal retroviruses have been isolated by banding in density gradients

means that your likely belief that viruses don't exist rather disagrees with their evidence chain.

 

[geistkiesel]

Considering that you've already mentioned your alliance with homeopathic medicine in another thread, I would never believe that you've abandoned it for this discussion.

Certainly, the fact that the "virusmyth" website uses the existence of other retroviruses as part of their evidence:means that your likely belief that viruses don't exist rather disagrees with their evidence chain.

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/epreplyek.htm

What evidence chain are you talking about? Your logic is a work of art. The chain of the websites evidence means my belief in somehing or other is more likely?

You are going to show wverybody where Isaid retroviruses do not exist aren't you. I've never seen one to tell the truth. Can you prove retroviruses exist? If so then prove it.

Maybe you aren't a professional prpagandist afterall. maybe your just another lonely old man looking to get picked up by a real professional propaganda house. Did you get to attend the latest Nixon's Plumbers Reunion?

I said that HIV has not been proved to exist. HIV has not been isolated to the exclusion of all other organism in the universe. The fact of the existence of retroviruses, if you are correct, does not prove the existence of HIV.

I have never mentioned an alliance with any group, philosophy medical discipline including homeopathy. Given the score card for deahs/treatment ratio of conventional vs homeopathy, even without knowing the number I would choose homeopathy as being the least dangerous. Do you have the numbers? you seem so familair with the subject matter. Has anyone ever had the wrong body pat removed in a homeopathic treament scenario?

There is no scientific evidence that HIV exists and ergo no scientific evidence that HIV causes AIDS.

Websites don't use retrovirusus to prove anything. The virusmyth website is an informaion source, like any other website, including the one we are using now.

 

[dymaxia23]

Shame you two can't handle this whole thing sensibly. Do either of you care about this REAL PROBLEM (that is taking REAL LIVES), or do you only care about being right? Have you noticed that originally there were several participants in something resembling a discussion? Now it's just the two of you flinging your own turds at eachother. Pity to think of what you could be accomplishing if you dealt with it like a problem and not a contest.

 

[BigBlueHead]

Dymaxia23: Welcome to Sciforums.

Shame you two can't handle this whole thing sensibly. Do either of you care about this REAL PROBLEM (that is taking REAL LIVES), or do you only care about being right? Have you noticed that originally there were several participants in something resembling a discussion? Now it's just the two of you flinging your own turds at eachother. Pity to think of what you could be accomplishing if you dealt with it like a problem and not a contest.

Dymaxia... geistkiesel and I are bringing fairly serious intellectual accusationa against one another for good reason.

He thinks that homeopathic medicine is the most supportable system.

He thinks that I am part of a campaign, coordinated or not, to stop the use and study of homeopathic medicine.

I think that homeopathic medicine is injurious and backsliding, mostly because of statements like:

More people die each year from the intake iof legal drugs than illegal drugs. 100,000 plus.

Whereas I doubt this statistic, at the same time I'm quite sure that if a person died while taking homeopathic substances, geistkiesel would never say that they had "died from taking homeopathic substances". This is a biased statistic attacking mainstream medicine.

While he uses statistics like these, he claims a neutral stance. This is a little like a vegetarian coming to your house, waiting until you put a steak in front of them, and then saying, "Now I don't mean anything by this... but don't you know that Meat is Murder? Not that I'm a vegetarian."

Now, I don't know whether you've read the kind of discussions that go on here, but this kind of thing happens all the time. With respect to the AIDS subject, I am mostly interested in making sure that everyone knows that geistkiesel has come to the Biology and Genetics forum - where most people believe in viruses - to "spread the word" about how mainstream science is wrong and he is right. Now, don't you think that's a little strange?

A little strange that someone would come to a forum called "Biology and Genetics" to say "Biology and Genetics are all wrong according to my website"?

Sounds almost like he's picking a fight, no?

Well, if you don't think so, have a look at his first post on this thread:

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=35405&page=1

Notice how he blunders into the middle of a conversation about the law with this sweet little post:

There is an old joke" What would be a relkly good start? Amswer: 1000 attornies on the bottom of the ocean.

Now you know why I can tell this joke with zeal and enthusiasm. What you showed me in your thread is that you are the problem. A confessed and unmitigated burden on society without any redeeming human chracteristics or qualities, including the one that does not condemn those charged with criminal activty before ther trial. Buit you talk so sure of yourself and all the assumptions you have piled upon the man that has not committed even the simplest act of any kind o assaulyt/]. Do you disagree with me? I enter a plea of not guilty on behalf of he defedant. Now prosecutor man, prove your case, every single element of the charges you have stacked against him. You strike me as a typical "herd instinct judicial robot". Are you aware of theThird Reichs program to purify the society by eliminating those and other medically defined mental defects, insane, terminally ill etc. summarily?

(I have only quoted a small part near the end of his post - you should probably read it before he erases it, since many people like him tend to go back and erase their posts at a future date.)

There's a pretty good argument. You should die, you are wrong, you are a killer nazi robot. All because "AIDS is not caused by a virus".

He finishes up by saying:

so be it Mr. Undecided and may god have mercy on your soul as I finally now ask, "who has a proper length of rope for Mr Undecided's scrawny useless neck?"

Because of course, God has appointed our geistkiesel as the executioner of... uh... those who believe that AIDS is caused by a virus. Because they are killer nazi robots. By the way, it is interesting that someone who made threats of legal action a few posts ago is now making death threats in another thread.



So.

I respect your opinion, Dymaxia23, but you should recognize that this thread was mangled beyond recognition by geistkiesel's first post. He is a wacko.