A must requirement to be a Christian

battig1370

Registered Senior Member
A must requirement to be a Christian is to believe as fact that a deity (Jesus) came to Saul/St.Paul on the road to Damascus, as an angel of light saying, "I am the Jesus of Nazareth" Am I correct in making this statement?

Peace be with you, Paul
 
No!

The only requirement is that you Believe in Jesus, that He died on the Cross for your sins, rose on the third day and conquered death. Paul preached this. It isn't a requirement to believe in Paul, but a Christian should believe what happened to Paul and what Paul taught especially if they don't I would like to ask them about there Salvation but It is not a requirement to being a Christian. Belief on Christ is the only way to becoming a Christian! Period! I say again it is very unlikely for a Christian not to believe the what happened to Paul and his teachings espescially.
~ Warrior61 ><>
 
battig, why do you have such a hard on for paul? this is your third thread regarding him...
 
top mosker: battig, why do you have such a hard on for paul? this is your third thread regarding him...
*************
M*W: I resent that! I probably have posted more anti-Paul posts than anyone else! Leo Volont should be a close second. Get your facts straight before you give credit where credit isn't due.
 
Warrior61 answered , "No!", but he also answered, "I say again it is very unlikely for a Christian not to believe the what happened to Paul"

"very unlikely"? Okay, does anyone know of any christians that do not believe the what happened to Saul/St.Paul on the road to Damascus?

Peace be with you, Paul
 
top mosker: "battig, why do you have such a hard on for paul? this is your third thread regarding him".

Battig1370: your off topic, lets keep to the topic which is "A must requirement to be a Christian is to believe as fact that a deity (Jesus) came to Saul/St.Paul on the road to Damascus", Yes or No

Peace be with you, Paul
 
Warrior61 says "if they don't I would like to ask them about there Salvation" What you implying here is that there are unsaved christians, and saved christian; Am I correct?

Would I be correct in saying that a must requirement to be a Saved Christian is to believe as fact that a deity (Jesus) came to Saul/St.Paul on the road to Damascus. Yes or No

Peace be with you, Paul
 
battig1370 said:
A must requirement to be a Christian is to believe as fact that a deity (Jesus) came to Saul/St.Paul on the road to Damascus, as an angel of light saying, "I am the Jesus of Nazareth" Am I correct in making this statement?
NO,
anyone can claim to be Christian, but to be a True Christian you have to pass the following test
from totse.com

Jesus says "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves." Matt 7:15

and "Then if any man shall say to you Lo, here is the Christ, or, Here, believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets and shall show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the very elect." Matt. 24:23-24

John says "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1st John 4:1

There are many different types of Christian you know. And they all claim to be True Christians. How is the non-believer to know which is which? After all we want the real thing, a True Christian, not a demon from hell disguised as an angel of light. No Jim Bakkers or Jimmy Swaggarts will do. We want a real fool for Christ. How do we tell the True Christian from the disguised demon? The real fool from the money grabbers? We can do that with a little help. And this help comes from a very unexpected source. You see these Christian critters have a role model they follow. And they can't deviate from the model too much and hope to get to the heavenly entertainment park. Jesus, their role model has stated...

"Therefore by their fruits shall you know them. Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by your name and by your name cast out demons, and by your name do many mighty works? And I will profess to them, I never knew you. Go away from me you who work evil." Matt 7:22-23

So you can see that not every person who claims to be Christian will make it to that starry, wonder filled entertainment park they call heaven. True Christians tell me that only 10 percent of those who claim to be True Christians are Christians at all. There's just a little rivalry. It seems they are all in competition with each other for that last 144,000 condos-in-paradise. Now God knows how much real estate He has and how much it costs. Overpopulation being what it is today He has to oust some. Otherwise garbage over runs the golden streets, airborne pollution covers the crystal walls and the sewers back up. Yech!

As our volunteer testee saunters up visually apprise them. Do they look serious? Are their clothes nice? Do they look like they own property? Good. We're ready to start, but don't rush. We don't want the testee to suspect our motives.

Much of the Christian religion is emotional. As the conversation starts let the testee know just where you stand. You don't want to be duped. You want to talk to a true Christian. None other than a true Christian will do.

Ask our testee if they are a Christian? Are they a True Christian? Do they love Jesus? Is Jesus their Personal Lord and Savior? Yes? Good. Ask them how much they love Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit. Are they Spirit filled? Do they display any of the fruits, love, joy, peace, happiness, etc. of the Spirit as described in Gal. 5:22-23?

Next we have to verify that they believe in the Bible. Without this we won't have any fun. Ask our volunteer if they believe in the Bible. Do they believe that it is the Word of God? Is it infallible? Is the Bible as appropriate for today as it was two thousand years ago? If the answer is yes, even if not infallible, fun is to be had in short order.

The Money Test

Here's how we start... Our trick is to confront the testee with moral absolutes and performance tests. Here is the first performance test that we can enjoy.

"Give to everyone that asketh thee; and from him that taketh away thy goods ask not again." Luke 6:30

"Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." Matt. 5:42

Luke 6:35 sums it all up...

"But love your enemies, and do them good, and lend never despairing; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be Sons of the Most High: for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil."

True Christians are so fond of moral absolutes that I think we should give them every opportunity to experience those absolutes as real, upfront and personal events. In your next testing session, when you hear the True Christian extolling the Rock of Moral Absolutes upon which they stand, go for the cash. It has a nice sobering effect that should in the long run benefit the True Christian.

Ask for their money, all of it. Just ask for their wallet. Have them show it to you. Any money inside? Good. Ask for it. You don't want their credit cards. That would be a crime. If there's no money, ask for an article of clothing. Coats and cloaks are good. How about car keys? Do they have a big cross with them? Ask for it.

When they refuse have them reread the previous verses, then ask again. Should they still refuse call them a fraud, for that's exactly what they are. Just like Jesus send them away into darkness. They aren't a True Christian.

Now should they give you everything in their wallet, the cloak on their back and the cross too, we get to have more fun...

The Swill Test

Next we proceed with more subjective questions. One of their obsessive traits is to compare their past performance with the actions of those in the Bible. How is their walk with their Lord? Do they follow Jesus closely? Do they want to follow more closely? Yes? Good. Now we start with the serious tests.

In Matthew 10:18 Jesus sends out his True Disciples with the commandments to "heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead and cast out devils." Take a skeptical attitude about their status as a True Christian. Again let them know that you want only the real thing. No substitutes will be allowed.

"And these signs shall accompany them that believe: in my name they shall cast out demons, they shall speak with new tongues. They shall take up serpents and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay their hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mark 16:17-18

On this you gotta' be a little careful not to let the cat out of the bag. Ask your friend if they have cast out demons. Do they speak with tongues? Have they laid their hands on sick persons who were healed?

If so take a bottle from storage prepared especially for the test. It should be filled with (non)toxic, pukey looking stuff that smells to high heaven. Urine and excrement should do. Cap the bottle tightly while in storage. And for heavens sake wrap it in something to hide the mess from sight. In the Bible read Mark 16:17-18 which says that True Christians can pick up serpents and drink harmful things without suffering. Ask our unsuspecting testee to chug the whole bottle. If they object saying "thou shalt not test God" respond by saying that you are testing them, not God. God is not around to be tested anyway. If they don't chug-the-jug you can safely assume they are not a True Christian, only a fraud. Send them away.

A note of warning... Be sure to inform the True Christian the drink is toxic. Let them pick up the bottle for themselves. If they drink the potion they take the test of their own free will.

Now some might protest that the last part of Mark is a 'late addition' not found in the earlier texts. Perhaps they have confessed to you previously that the Bible is the word of God and is infallible. What happened? Didn't the believe the Bible? Tell them they aren't a True Christian; they are frauds. Send them home with their tails between their legs.
 
battig1370 said:
Warrior61 says "if they don't I would like to ask them about there Salvation" What you implying here is that there are unsaved christians, and saved christian; Am I correct?

Would I be correct in saying that a must requirement to be a Saved Christian is to believe as fact that a deity (Jesus) came to Saul/St.Paul on the road to Damascus. Yes or No

Peace be with you, Paul

It isn't a requirement for being a Christian. This isn't hard to decifer you aren't breaking a code so read this slowly: It isn't a reaquirement to be a son of God but for a Christian to not believe about Paul is wierd because he was one of the greatest Apostles and leaders of the Church but it isn't a requirement. ~Warrior61 ><>
 
battig1370 said:
A must requirement to be a Christian is to believe as fact that a deity (Jesus) came to Saul/St.Paul on the road to Damascus, as an angel of light saying, "I am the Jesus of Nazareth" Am I correct in making this statement?

Peace be with you, Paul

You are saying that to be a Christian, one has to believe in Paul.

Yes, that seems to be the underlying belief system of Protestants, but that does not make it correct, does it?

If the Gospels are to be believed, then Christ came with some independent Teachings which we should suppose have some validity even without Paul. These teachings are largely Spiritual and Ethical.

Paul, on the otherhand, dispensed with all Spiritual and Ethical considerations, claiming that the Murder of Christ somehow entitled all Sinners free entry into Heaven... as though Christ were the Guard of Heaven and after He was gotten rid of then the Gates would be wide open to anybody. Is that what People think Christians are, or should be?... Sinners who use the Death of Christ as an opportunity to overrun Heaven?

So, no. People who believe in Paul should call themselves Paulists. Only those who believe in Salvation by following the Ethical and Spiritual Teachings of Christ, and by taking His Established Sacraments... only they should call themselves Christians. Now, they call themselves Catholic, and are largely embarrassed to go by the name of Christian, since so many Antichrists are currently using that Name.
 
I don't believe in Paul. Paul is a fellow Christian but he is not my saviour. I don't care whether or not the light on the road to Damascus was real or Paul's imagination. It makes no difference at all to my religion. I am a follower of Christ, not Paul. Am I still a Christian?
 
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Consider Paul is the one who refers to Jesus as "Jesus Christ" I would say you are totterng on your tightrope. Besides, if it wasn't for Paul's letters being venerated you wouldn't be a Christian today.

Nothing to squabble over, just thought it was absurd people claim to be following Christ when the "truth" has been adulterated over the centuries.

P.S. Is there a point to this thread?
 
David F.: I don't believe in Paul. I don't care whether or not the light on the road to Damascus was real or Paul's imagination. It makes no difference at all to my religion. I am a follower of Christ, not Paul. Am I still a Christian?
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M*W: Theoretically -- yes. Technically -- no. As I see it, you would more correctly be called a Paulinian, because you follow Paul's literary characterization of Christ. If you followed Jesus, you would be a Jew.
 
David F. said:
I don't believe in Paul. I don't care whether or not the light on the road to Damascus was real or Paul's imagination. It makes no difference at all to my religion. I am a follower of Christ, not Paul. Am I still a Christian?

"Christian" was a term invented by Paul to distinguish his congregations from the Jewish followers of Christ. Now, these days, the word "Christian" has been usurped by the Protestants, and it still largely connotes those who are followers of Paul. Many Catholics wince in pain when they are numbered in with other "Christians"... although Catholics still continue in the mistake of canonizing Paul as a 'Saint', they by no means equate his words with "The Word of God" the way Protestants have doctrinally decided to Deify Paul, and so Catholics shun being lumped in with the "Christian"-Protestant Churches.

So, calling yourself a "Christian" hardly makes the correct distinctions anymore.

In the Catholic Church we have what are called 'Marians' -- those who believe in the Marian Revelations and follower Her lead... and of course that is in full appreciation of the Teachings and Mission of Her Son, Jesus the Christ. Some Marians, like myself, actively denounce Paul, but most simply act as though he never existed and don't speak on the subject so as to keep peace within the Church were some still regard paul as important. It has to do with the brainwashing the Priests get in Seminary. If it were only the simple teachings of Jesus that would be taught, Priests could be ordained after a quick summer course, but as it is, with Pauline Doctrines to contend with, years must be spent explaining to these impressionable and sincere minds just how Paul was NOT the Antichrist. Many aspiring Priests end up dropping out as it occurs to them that they can't both represent Christ and Paul. But the ones who get all the way through the System, think that they can successfully reconcile the Teachings of Christ with the libertine doctrines of paul.

But the Religious Orders are full of Marians.

But what of a Protestant that doesn't follow Paul? I suppose you could call yourself a Messianic Christian... that is to say, that you believe that Christ came to be the Messiah, and that His murder intervened in all of this. Paul believes that Christ only came to die, but a Messianic Christian would believe that Christ came to Rule, and should have Ruled, and that the least we can do now is abide by his Ethical and Spiritual Teachings and abide by the sacraments He left us. Perfectly this would require one to be a Catholic who respects the Jewish Holidays, as we would suppose Jesus might.
 
§outh§tar said:
Consider Paul is the one who refers to Jesus as "Jesus Christ" I would say you are totterng on your tightrope. Besides, if it wasn't for Paul's letters being venerated you wouldn't be a Christian today.

That is the argument many Catholic Priests use -- that since Paul's Congregations won the Religious Wars of the first two Centuries, it is assumed that his Organization was the strongest and the most capable of spreading the message. But the argument is simplistic, no? Do we for a fact know that the Groups that were rubbed out and destroyed would not have done an even better job?

Then there is the matter that Christ's message was largely subverted by the Pauline Congregations. The Apparitions of Mary and the influence of Her Saints within the Church would largely correct many of these doctrinal abuses, but, unfortunately, while the writings of Paul are still read, they will still be able to seduce those whose True Faith is tottering -- those who do not think they have the Faith for Penance and Righteousness will turn to paul's delusional supposition that by having murdered the Messiah, Heaven can be had for nothing. You know, wouldn't it have been better to have no Christianity at all, than to have a mistaken Christianity which so many people would grow to insist upon. It only sets up an eventual confrontation in the End of Time when Christ will come again, where the Paulists will be frankly out of step. There is definitely a danger that Christ will simply be crucified again, and by those who think that This Person's Rejection of Pauline Doctrines automatically makes HIM the Antichrist, and not the other way around. It may have taken him about 2000 years to do it, but paul, by his influence, may still yet murder Christ, this time in His 2nd Coming.
 
top mosker: "battig, why do you have such a hard on for paul? this is your third thread regarding him..."

Battig1370: stay a while, you may find out why. 'may'?

Peace with be you, Paul
 
Leo Volont said:
That is the argument many Catholic Priests use -- that since Paul's Congregations won the Religious Wars of the first two Centuries, it is assumed that his Organization was the strongest and the most capable of spreading the message. But the argument is simplistic, no? Do we for a fact know that the Groups that were rubbed out and destroyed would not have done an even better job?

I disagree. We must ALWAYS take things in context, like Christians so vehemently argue. Since Paul's message persevered, can we not say the hand of the Spirit was upon him? Saying no means God allowed thousands and thousands to be deluded (by Paul), consequently damning the rest of humanity since we would never be able to know what the "true" message was. Therefore we must avoid sacrilege and say Paul was inspired.

But this is just arguing from a Christian standpoint (which I can still do ;) )

Then there is the matter that Christ's message was largely subverted by the Pauline Congregations. The Apparitions of Mary and the influence of Her Saints within the Church would largely correct many of these doctrinal abuses, but, unfortunately, while the writings of Paul are still read, they will still be able to seduce those whose True Faith is tottering -- those who do not think they have the Faith for Penance and Righteousness will turn to paul's delusional supposition that by having murdered the Messiah, Heaven can be had for nothing. You know, wouldn't it have been better to have no Christianity at all, than to have a mistaken Christianity which so many people would grow to insist upon. It only sets up an eventual confrontation in the End of Time when Christ will come again, where the Paulists will be frankly out of step. There is definitely a danger that Christ will simply be crucified again, and by those who think that This Person's Rejection of Pauline Doctrines automatically makes HIM the Antichrist, and not the other way around. It may have taken him about 2000 years to do it, but paul, by his influence, may still yet murder Christ, this time in His 2nd Coming.

That is all very nice but what was Christ's message and how do you know?
 
How can one believe if one does not KNOW? How can you know without experience? You can't...period. So, you must experience God through Christ to truly know...to know Him. This is rebirth. Rebirth is the requirement...just as Jesus explained to Nicodemus. Anything less is simply subscribing to a particular doctrine, dogma, or organization...and that means NOTHING.

Love,

Lori
 
Medicine Woman said:
top mosker: battig, why do you have such a hard on for paul? this is your third thread regarding him...
*************
M*W: I resent that! I probably have posted more anti-Paul posts than anyone else! Leo Volont should be a close second. Get your facts straight before you give credit where credit isn't due.

This has nothing to do with anti-paul threads. This has everything to do with batig posting the same exact question in three different threads within a 24 hour period.
 
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