A Little Fuzzy

It all depends on whether you rely strictly to science, or are willing to accept the existance of a supernatural creature.
 
Present said:
duendy, yes i did read both of your articles. i think that im getting lost in your use of the word being. sometimes i cant tell if by 'being' you mean " to exist" or ....'being' as in a concsious physical creature- such as human being.

me)))))))i mean one's sense of being. how you are feeling right now.

well i dont know how it would feel if my sense of my own existence was expanded.

me)))))have you had psychedelic experience?

if by "expanded sense of my own existence" you mean to be "on a high" as i put it earlier then yes i suppose if i beleived that this high was induced by eating a plant "or in the orphics case, god" that yes, i would feel as if i was possesed by god.

me)))))))yes, one ccan feel that sense. Espcially if one's usual state is quite inhibited.

and if they felt that they became a part of god, and that translated to christianity (which i dont think that comunion is related to this)

me))))))can ou explain in more detail why not?

but if the feeling that one could connect/be one with god, did transfer to the christians then that would explain why the christians veiw god as a being(being meaning "concious creature"), the christians could think that because god could become a their them,(both physically as was adopted from the plant, and mentally as from the high that it induced). that god was infact a being.

me)))))))Exactly. see the similarity. For te Dionysian celebrants the 'plant' would have been Dionysos. For the Christians 'God/Jesus'/Son of God' is 'made flesh'. Ie., is made ito a plant/fungi that is believed to be god, and inspires one to godness. This is the secret doctrine. the oe 'hidden' in the writings, as J.M.Allegro reveals in his book, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross

so then that could explain why many religions veiw god as a being, since christianity thought it was, and it indirectly influenced other religions.

me))))es. and as soon as as sacred sacrament is prohibited then theidea of 'god' becomes much more abstract. it becomes distant--not directly experienced--. in a 'spiritual realm', and/or a 'place' where you need the religion's representatives/ the priests' to act as kind of middle men to 'God'.

but in all of this there is no logic that should sway me to think that god was a being. it shows why some religions do.

me))EXACTLY. i m in no way saying god is a beig. i a rather just revealing that that people assumed they were possessed of a 'god' after ingesting a psychedelic sacrament

duendy, what is the next step, and what should make ME think that God is infact a being, or "conscious, physical creature"

me)))))))we have to explore what it means for us modern humans when we have psychedelic experience. it means we ask the question to find out what we actually ARE. what are we?.....this is aHUUUUGE inquiry and involves looking at everything. and i mean ev erything. NOspecialization allowed in this inquiry. the mind has to be flexible to be able to explore sudden twists and turns of inquiry.
At present cognitive science is struggling with the 'Hard Problem' (see David Chalmers) which wonders about subjective consciousness. It is a 'hard problem' becaiuse it is NOT UNDERSTOOD!......the way science is built andoperates it doesn't know its own consciousness it operates from, and lives life. Is BEING
So bearing that in mind, we wonder about what we are NOW. is this us, or is this us indoctrinatd by the State?--are you with me? for example, say i had a psychede;ic i'm about to take. is my state before i take it the 'real me', or am i indoctrinated by the State myth,such as its materialism. and when i take it and feel deep things, what does that mean. is THAT the real me?...obviously i cant be in tat state all the time.......s it is questions like tat we need to explore.

sorry i dont have time to proofread this so disregaurd the technical errors.
Click to expand...
ha, you dont have to tell me about technical errors
 
Communion:

Im not entirley sure that communion wasnt taken from the orphics.
and now that i think about it, many of the writers of the new testament where communion is mentioned may have written it after knowing of the orphics religion. or, some religous leader could have changed it early on, and because the bible wasnt well known early on, Christians wouldnt have known the difference.

have you had psychedelic experience?
Click to expand...

nope


and sadly, my lack of drug usage renders me useless in discussing your last paragraph :(
 
Present said:
Communion:

Im not entirley sure that communion wasnt taken from the orphics.
and now that i think about it, many of the writers of the new testament where communion is mentioned may have written it after knowing of the orphics religion. or, some religous leader could have changed it early on, and because the bible wasnt well known early on, Christians wouldnt have known the difference.



nope


and sadly, my lack of drug usage renders me useless in discussing your last paragraph :(
Click to expand...
Present, your one of the most honest and explorarative peplem i've ever met when doin the forums ...

about communion. reall the Orphics didn't invest it. it is as old as days. it simpl means what it says. communion with ......Originally with the Old Religion of the Earth, wit Nature and community. but later w have the mystery schools who bring in a 'spiritual' realm seen as apart from Nature. yhat's when the delusion begins i reckon. obviously. tewn we get a psychological 'split' betweenNature and 'spirit' and when Orphics write this down it becomes 'set in stone'!...all the way down the line, so tat even we today in te 21 century have a 'mind/body problem'!

I completely understand your difficulty in discussing about psychedelic experience if you've never experienced it. it is utterly impossible to explain.

for me i had experience when i was 15, and it was a complete dramatic turn around beyond all comprehension.
Surprisngly, in my time chatting to a wide amount of people at forums that deal with psychedelics etc., i alo have met some peple who have had psychedelic experience who someties underestimate it, explain it in materialistic terms, ad hold political views etc i do not.

As suggested. the Orphics TOO would have at first carried on with te psychedelic sacrament, but soo phase it out. all the way they create a divisive dogma. tis really confused me for a lon time, because MY experience riht from firstdidn't. i sought out an explantion which very much deeply respected Nature.....actually THE autor i found after a lot of misses was Alan Watts!/////learnt me about interelatedness of reality

so psychedelics are not enough if set&setting is wrong. 'set' is mental set before taking sacrament, and 'setting' is the place you choose to have the experience
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top