A Funeral for Faithless persons

[S.A.M.]

In trying to locate Habermas' debate "An Awareness of What Is Missing" online, I came across this interesting observation he made about a friend who embraced rationalism in life but wanted to be buried in church.

Habermas begins his initial contribution to the conversation by recalling the funeral of a friend who in life “rejected any profession of faith,” and yet indicated before his death that he wanted his memorial service to take place at St. Peter’s Church in Zurich. Habermas decides that his friend “had sensed the awkwardness of non-religious burial practices and, by his choice of place, publicly declared that the enlightened modern age has failed to find a suitable replacement for a religious way of coping with the final rite de passage.”

It tried to think of all the funerals I had attended and realised that death is inextricably a ritual for man.


What would a funeral for the faithless look like?

PS if anyone has a link to Habermas' debate it would be appreciated

 

[Tiassa]

However it ends up looking, I guess

What would a funeral for the faithless look like?

I would hope lots of toasts over the casket.

I do recall a great funeral scene in The Lotus Eaters, in which a member of the community delivered the eulogy for a teacher who died in the classroom. It went something like, "Trevor Austin—he liked a good smoke, a good drink, and a good boat. He lived a good life." The whole thing was maybe two sentences long.

Funerals for the faithless, just as for the faithful, are more for the survivors than the deceased. I would hope, if anyone should gather to remember me at my interment, immolation, or dispersal, that they should drink, smoke pot, and recall their favorite memories of my brilliance or hilarious stupidity. Most likely the latter, incidentally.

Perhaps they might cremate me and ceremonially shoot my ashes out of a cannon, just because it would be cool. If my family demanded symbolism, I would ask that a portion of my ashes be sent up into space to decay from orbit, as was done with Gene Roddenberry and Timothy Leary. But my only real demand is that if they must have some sort of ceremony, it should be irreverent and even hedonistic.

 

[S.A.M.]

But why would you want a ceremony? Oh wait, you said if.

So what would be your ideal funeral? Both if you were to bury a loved one or be buried by a loved one? I recall the ladybug funeral.

How would you tell a kid to bury a pet?

 

[Nesm]

Friends and family of the deceased get together, share stories and make a toast. A chance to celebrate this particular expression of life / person which has died. Non-religious funerals tend to be a lot more sincere & enjoyable. People seem to be able to share more openly without feeling the need to obey the rules of conduct of a religious institution.

It is strange how a non-religious persons' funeral is often shrouded in or completely devoted to religious rituals & surroundings.

 

[S.A.M.]

Non-faith or rather, non-religious funerals, tend to be a lot more sincere

Have you attended any? Could you link me to an instance? Where are they performed? What do they do with the bodies?

 

[Nesm]

My dad was asked once to lead a funeral. The person was a christian, but there was no talk of god or other christian concepts during the funeral. The family & friends of the deceased who were not Christians, felt like they weren't excluded from the ceremony - they felt a part of this celebration.

And that's important I think. That a funeral should be an event that brings people together and affords all the opportunity to feel welcome and at ease. The last thing I'd want at my funeral is for people to feel alienated.

 

[S.A.M.]

What did they do with the body?

 

[Nesm]

It tried to think of all the funerals I had attended and realised that death is inextricably a ritual for man.

Its been said that elephants remember their dead - they just don't celebrate the life of that elephant (that we know of) in the form of a funeral. They still have ritual associated with death...or rather, they have ritual associated with life, with the memory of life. I guess that's also what a funeral can be: Not so much a death ritual, but a ritual for life, which has been given the opportunity to be practiced because of (a) death.

 

[Nesm]

What did they do with the body?

The body had been cremated, the ashes flung somewhere. There was no vase of black powder at the funeral.

 

[S.A.M.]

The body had been cremated, the ashes flung somewhere. There was no vase of black powder at the funeral.

That makes sense. No grave

 

[Asguard]

well i know what my funeral (and my Fiancé's assuming i survive her) will look like (at least what will happen to our bodies). Anyone read the fith elephant by terry prachett. I intend to have an "igor" funeral, ie first pick of the bits goes to the organ donor program, anything left goes to the university or whatever to either be chopped up, or rotted down or in some way made useful.

 

[The Marquis]

Anyone who has read Orson Scott Card would be familiar, in all probability, with the concept of a "Speaker for the Dead".

I would imagine that even Pol Pot had people at his funeral who were deeply saddened to see him go. Such a Speaker would, ideally, be able to explain why.

 

[Photizo]

What would a funeral for the faithless look like?

 

[Photizo]

... my... hilarious stupidity. Most likely the latter, incidentally.

True enough, but everything gets old after awhile... even laughing. I'd say after about 10 seconds the novelty for you will have worn off and sustaining your laughter will become increasingly difficult.

 

[spidergoat]

I would have my body cremated and put into a small cardboard box. Then, the funeral would be at the beach or something, people would drink and party, then the box would be burned and the ashes scattered about.

 

[Nesm]

first pick of the bits goes to the organ donor program, anything left goes to the university or whatever to either be chopped up, or rotted down or in some way made useful.

When it comes to the body - this makes the most sense. Cryonics is also an interesting idea, if only for the minuscule chance that it does actually work.

 

[iceaura]

What would a funeral for the faithless look like?

The event you seek would be a funeral by the atheistic irreligious, and the atheistic irreligious only - and to meet your apparent conditions, the theistic and or religious would have to be excluded or left out, prevented from contributing in their own deeply felt manner.

That would be very rude, and not at all respectful of the memory of a normal dead atheist or irreligious person even if it were OK by some of their friends.

Such segregated ceremonies would have to be rare.

As far as a funeral gathering not dominated by religious ritual, I have been to a few - usually they are called "memorial" or something similar, with food and drink and people telling stories. The last one I attended was held at a bar, for good reason, and was deeply felt by many - the "Parting Glass" was sung in four part harmony, after hours of the best tunes by the best players, and that was the end of it. RIP Fitz.

 

[Dinosaur]

If it is legal, I would not care if they put my body in a landfill with no ceremony at all.

Funerals are for the living friends & family of the deceased. I attended many funerals of relatives & friends.

I did not attend the funeral of a beloved aunt because I did not have respect for any of her immediate family who treated her outrageously while she was alive. When asked if I planned to be at the funeral, I said no. When asked why not, I replied that I did not feel obligated to answer that question.

Several years later at a wedding, I was castigated by my cousin for not attending his mother's funeral. At that time I told him that since he, his siblings, & his father had mistreated my aunt while she was alive, I did not want to have anything to do with them at the funeral or afterwards.

 

[Tiassa]

Notes Around

So what would be your ideal funeral? Both if you were to bury a loved one or be buried by a loved one? I recall the ladybug funeral.

Well, my mother I would probably give a Lutheran funeral. She still considers herself Christian, and I have far more respect for her Lutheran roots than the moronic, nondenominational church she occasionally attends today. To the other, she might have funeral instructions in her Will. I don't know, though. If so, I would follow those.

My father, by contrast, wants to be wrapped in a sheet, sailed out to the middle of the ocean, and thrown overboard. I'm not sure if I could manage that according to the law—e.g., would the mortuary release the body to me under such circumstances?—but I'll certainly try. No ceremony, no tears, no anything. Just send him out to sea where he belongs, and he can feed the ecosystem.

Ideally, sure, blast me off in a rocket and let me decay from orbit. Even so, that symbolism would benefit the living, if anyone at all.

If I die in the forest, and nobody is left to care, what does it matter? In truth, if I somehow outlive everyone I know, including my daughter, I will be relieved that nobody should feel compelled to mourn me.

How would you tell a kid to bury a pet?

With reverence, probably. I'll eventually have the chance. Liban, our cat, is twelve. I don't pretend she'll live forever. With things like the ladybug burial, or the time the same friend and I held a ceremony for a bird's egg we found fallen from the nest and broken at the base of a tree, we were dispensing our compassion as a collectively internalized exercise. And the events happened to catch us at certain times. I did not, for instance, hold any ceremony for the poor mouse I had to terminate after Liban was done torturing it. I just put it down and sent it away with the trash. Psychologically speaking, for my own benefit, I probably should have held some sort of ceremony, since its life was evacuated by my hand.

• • •​

True enough, but everything gets old after awhile... even laughing. I'd say after about 10 seconds the novelty for you will have worn off and sustaining your laughter will become increasingly difficult.

I think I get what you mean, but I also feel compelled to point out that I will be dead.

• • •​

I would imagine that even Pol Pot had people at his funeral who were deeply saddened to see him go. Such a Speaker would, ideally, be able to explain why.

Karl Marx. Frightful luminary of the nineteenth century. Americans fear his name.

Eleven people attended his funeral.

 

[Asguard]

Well, my mother I would probably give a Lutheran funeral. She still considers herself Christian, and I have far more respect for her Lutheran roots than the moronic, nondenominational church she occasionally attends today. To the other, she might have funeral instructions in her Will. I don't know, though. If so, I would follow those.

My father, by contrast, wants to be wrapped in a sheet, sailed out to the middle of the ocean, and thrown overboard. I'm not sure if I could manage that according to the law—e.g., would the mortuary release the body to me under such circumstances?—but I'll certainly try. No ceremony, no tears, no anything. Just send him out to sea where he belongs, and he can feed the ecosystem.

Ideally, sure, blast me off in a rocket and let me decay from orbit. Even so, that symbolism would benefit the living, if anyone at all.

If I die in the forest, and nobody is left to care, what does it matter? In truth, if I somehow outlive everyone I know, including my daughter, I will be relieved that nobody should feel compelled to mourn me.



With reverence, probably. I'll eventually have the chance. Liban, our cat, is twelve. I don't pretend she'll live forever. With things like the ladybug burial, or the time the same friend and I held a ceremony for a bird's egg we found fallen from the nest and broken at the base of a tree, we were dispensing our compassion as a collectively internalized exercise. And the events happened to catch us at certain times. I did not, for instance, hold any ceremony for the poor mouse I had to terminate after Liban was done torturing it. I just put it down and sent it away with the trash. Psychologically speaking, for my own benefit, I probably should have held some sort of ceremony, since its life was evacuated by my hand.

• • •​

I think I get what you mean, but I also feel compelled to point out that I will be dead.

• • •​

Karl Marx. Frightful luminary of the nineteenth century. Americans fear his name.

Eleven people attended his funeral.

i highly doubt Marx would be sad to see someone who killed so many people go. Inspite of what yanks learn Marx was more interested in the welfare of the underclasses. That seems to be why the US hates him so much because its easier to hate those who show us where we are going wrong and the level of poverty just inside the US shows what an apaling system you actually have