A Citation

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You have a lot of trust in your own perception to believe this. I do not trust my own perceptions. I don't know if what you say is truth or lies, but I don't trust you and I don't trust myself enough to know that I shouldn't trust you.

I won't be deceived anymore by myself as I did in the past.

Once bitten twice shy. Your like a divorce who deep down desires a loving partner above all else but because of the hurt of a past relationship puts a wall up against anyone who would approach seeking to provide for them their deepest desire.

People like you who do trust their own senses are a problem for me because I can't trust them because they are like what I was...convicted/convinced that the truth was truly perceived. So, when you say things with such conviction a red flag goes up because I was there before when I first started this journey on sciforums in 2005.

So basically what your saying is that No One on earth could ever convince you of truth. Anyone who comes to you with a claim of a message from God is suspect and will only cause a "red flag" to appear before you.

Then i must ask. Why do you even bother coming into a religion forum seeking to talk about God with theists when you clearly state that you will not believe anyone who claims to bring a message from God?

Something is screwy here with your logic, your motivations. All i see within you is self conflict between the part that wants to hear the truth and the part that will not accept any truth that you may hear.

Your trapped between a rock and a hard place jayleew.

You are not so different than I was, but of course you will deny it and that is your choice to make.

All i can say is i have been a follower of the Messiah Jesus for near on 20 years now and i have been coming here (and other sites also) for years ( Scirforms at lest 6 years now) i have read every possible objection from athiests and from other theists to the message i give and i have not had my faith/ trust in God shaken at any time. When ones foundations in beliefs are set right no storm can undermine it. But of course if ones faith and trust was based on traditions of the religious and the straw man doctrines they teach. One well placed arsonist can bring it all falling down within a very short space of time.

So the proof of any foundation is measured when it is put to the test. No test subjected to the foundation i am standing on has succeeded in undermining my faith. Standing on the Rock of Jesus is the only place to be.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[jayleew]

Once bitten twice shy. Your like a divorce who deep down desires a loving partner above all else but because of the hurt of a past relationship puts a wall up against anyone who would approach seeking to provide for them their deepest desire.

Maybe you are right.

So basically what your saying is that No One on earth could ever convince you of truth. Anyone who comes to you with a claim of a message from God is suspect and will only cause a "red flag" to appear before you.

You got it.
The rug was pulled from under me.

Then i must ask. Why do you even bother coming into a religion forum seeking to talk about God with theists when you clearly state that you will not believe anyone who claims to bring a message from God?

I seek the truth, and that will come through testing and observing. I need thesists and I need atheists and everyone in between to find the truth.

Something is screwy here with your logic, your motivations. All i see within you is self conflict between the part that wants to hear the truth and the part that will not accept any truth that you may hear.

Yes. Keeping an open mind about God is very hard, it causes a lot of conflict in my mind. That is why I found peace by ending the battle and deciding to not believe so readily. I let my faith go.

Your trapped between a rock and a hard place jayleew.

Yes, if I think there might be a god, it is painful because of who I am. And that is why if there is a god, I blame it for the pain when it could have easily stopped the battle and laid to rest the question of its existence in my mind.

 

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Yes. Keeping an open mind about God is very hard, it causes a lot of conflict in my mind. That is why I found peace by ending the battle and deciding to not believe so readily. I let my faith go.

Peace? If you had peace about it i doubt you would be spending years and years coming to this forum spending so much effort talking about it.

Yes, if I think there might be a god, it is painful because of who I am.

Painful peace? And who are you?

And that is why if there is a god, I blame it for the pain when it could have easily stopped the battle and laid to rest the question of its existence in my mind.

Angry Peace??


What peace is this peace you talk of. Does not seem like your in a state of peace to me.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[jayleew]

What peace is this peace you talk of. Does not seem like your in a state of peace to me.

I said once I let go of faith I found peace. Today I have peace 24/7, even when there is stress or trouble. The years that I spoke of when I hung on to faith, I had to fight for it. When doubt crept in, I put it down because I believed and I knew I must have faith, so I did. Once I was able to put it down and grab hold of my faith, I was at peace, but it was a daily battle that was waged...somedays were worse than others.

Now that my mind is at peace, I'm more free to contribute to family, friends, and society. Likewise, I'm sure you do not have the daily battle and have peace.

Angry Peace??
What peace is this peace you talk of. Does not seem like your in a state of peace to me.

I'm speaking hypothetically, if I was to try to have faith again. I said, "And that is why if there is a god, I blame it for the pain when it could have easily stopped the battle and laid to rest the question of its existence in my mind. "

This means if I find out there is a god, it will have to promise to answer my questions someday or I might rebel against it.

 

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I said once I let go of faith I found peace. Today I have peace 24/7, even when there is stress or trouble. The years that I spoke of when I hung on to faith, I had to fight for it. When doubt crept in, I put it down because I believed and I knew I must have faith, so I did. Once I was able to put it down and grab hold of my faith, I was at peace, but it was a daily battle that was waged...somedays were worse than others.

Now that my mind is at peace, I'm more free to contribute to family, friends, and society. Likewise, I'm sure you do not have the daily battle and have peace.



I'm speaking hypothetically, if I was to try to have faith again. I said, "And that is why if there is a god, I blame it for the pain when it could have easily stopped the battle and laid to rest the question of its existence in my mind. "

This means if I find out there is a god, it will have to promise to answer my questions someday or I might rebel against it.

You’re already in rebellion against God.

You will see God, but by then any answers you receive will be of no eternal use to you.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[jayleew]

You’re already in rebellion against God.

You will see God, but by then any answers you receive will be of no eternal use to you.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I don't oppose exploring the possibility of God. If it exists, I owe it my life, but it owes me an explanation. It can be my friend or my enemy, the choice is the god's if it were real.

You’re already in rebellion against God.

You will see God, but by then any answers you receive will be of no eternal use to you.

This is why I would blame God if it were real, because of this. It would send a devoted follower to hell just because in life the soul did not believe. And part of the reason the soul did not believe was because God created the soul to be a Doubting Thomas.

Thomas would've been like me if he had not seen Jesus after he rose. How lucky for him and unfair to me.

Perhaps the Bible is mistaken in teaching that belief is required.

 

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I don't oppose exploring the possibility of God. If it exists, I owe it my life, but it owes me an explanation. It can be my friend or my enemy, the choice is the god's if it were real.

The explanation has been provided through scriptures.

This is why I would blame God if it were real, because of this. It would send a devoted follower to hell just because in life the soul did not believe.

No devoted followers will be going to the lake of fire. Devoted followers will have all their transgressions covered by the Messiah Jesus and will have eternal life with God.

And part of the reason the soul did not believe was because God created the soul to be a Doubting Thomas.

Thomas would've been like me if he had not seen Jesus after he rose. How lucky for him and unfair to me.

Thomas said after seeing Jesus resurrected. “My Lord and my God!” Thomas did not have the full revelation of the Bible that you have at your disposal jayleew, I doubt he even understood salvation by the forgiveness of sins. So Thomas’s doubting was understandable and He was given grace by God not only to believe that Jesus was raised from the dead, but beyond that, for him to understand that Jesus was God.

God has provided a message, that He knows will draw all who have a love of the truth to The Love of the Truth. Those who reject the Message have already shown themselves to see the truth as evil or foolishness and therefore they will have no part with God in eternity.

Disagreement with God always leads the rebel either into false religion or disbelief. That’s the profile of nearly every athiest i have ever talked to in this place, firstly disagreement if their lives then leading to disbelief. Lets face it disagreeing with God while maintaining belief that God exists can only be a constant terror. So it is no wonder that those who disagree with God desperately seek out disbelief and maintain it with desperation.

Perhaps the Bible is mistaken in teaching that belief is required.

The Bible is correct in teaching that belief is required.

John 3
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days