A Christian's POV

ggazoo said:
...while snickering behind their keyboards.

*sigh* Oh well. So much for a different POV. I should have known better.

1) Yes you should have, as you've said at least twice now.

2) Besides the fact that I never snicker you are just as guilty of stereotyping and intolerance as anyone else among us. You have no idea of what motivates my posting. As cato said, just because some of us have no more patience for polite repartee with religiopsychopathologies, dosen't make our points any less valid. They just upset you more. And I think that's our purpose. A respectful approach to religion works for some, while a blunt approach works better for some who see religion as a harmful mental virus (meme).

I used to be of the "I think that if you examine your framework of understanding regarding your position on evidence vs faith, you may find that claiming objective status for your "diety" is a bit off the mark, old chap" school of repartee. Fuck that. There is reality, and there is fantasy. Made-up stories without evidentiary support are fantasy.
 
If religious right expect people to be all nicey nicey in the face of the unparalleled irrationality, then they are in the wrong place.

From the most dangerous fundamentalist, to the Christian apologists... they all share an ideology that doesn't have a pleasant past or present effect on society.

History shows the further you push secularism, all the better for politics, law and society as a whole. So it's best not to mince words when talking to people who hold these views.
 
ggazoo said:
After the wedding ceremony, my wife, mother-in-law and brother-in law went to his gravesite so we could have a moment with him. And it was a moment with him. Not his memory, but with him. He was there. I can't explain it unless you've gone through something like that yourself.

My condolences on your families loss.

But your statement above does not really state anything about your father-in-law being "there" - what does that mean exactly? Was he actually there in the flesh, alive? Did you see a ghost? Please explain what you meant when you said, "He was there."
 
KennyJC said:
If religious right expect people to be all nicey nicey in the face of the unparalleled irrationality, then they are in the wrong place.

From the most dangerous fundamentalist, to the Christian apologists... they all share an ideology that doesn't have a pleasant past or present effect on society.

History shows the further you push secularism, all the better for politics, law and society as a whole. So it's best not to mince words when talking to people who hold these views.
See? You said that much better than me. That's what I was trying to say. Thanks KJC.
 
ggazoo said:
My father-in-law was buried in the cemetery just behind the church where my wife and I were married. After the wedding ceremony, my wife, mother-in-law and brother-in law went to his gravesite so we could have a moment with him. And it was a moment with him. Not his memory, but with him. He was there. I can't explain it unless you've gone through something like that yourself. You can give me all the psychoanalysis that you want. You can also say that we wanted him there so badly, that we convinced ourselves that somehow that he was.
Im pretty open minded but unless I would see it and touch this dead ghost or spirit with my own hands I would suspect you were just dreaming
Which, is a very logical explanation after such a great loss. But until you're actually touched by the hand of God like that, there's nothing I can say that will convince you otherwise.
I noticed that believers always atribute ANYTHING good that happens in their lifes to God,while the bad shyt is someone elses fault
why dont the preachers THANK god when tornado or huricane or earthquake kills whole bunch of people?
it was an act of God after all,for He created everything didnt he?
..Was Jesus a mortal man? Very possible. Was Mary just a "young woman, and not a virgin? Hard to say. Was the crucifixion rigged? I have a hard time believing that one. And, did God flood the world in 40 days? Very possible. If He can perform miracles, He should be able to do anything, right?
why then cant he come down from the sky and show us he exists ??
my guess is hes just a corpse .
As far as 'evidence' goes... atheists say that over the course of thousands of years, there hasn't been one shred of evidence of the existence of God. But I think the problem is that we're thinking like human beings.
read the bible and how god is described and you'll find out that hes just like humans,evil jelous etc....most atheist heck most humans behave way better
www.evilbible.com
God is beyond human comprehension I think.
thats just one of many apologies theists use to explain god,its pretty lame
Thousands of years to us equals mere seconds in God's eyes.
and you know this HOW exactly?
anyways even if it was so what,we dont measure time by gods clock but by the sun!
 
Ggazoo,

Many thanks for sharing your personal story, but be aware that it will be analyzed and you might find that painful. Stay with it and try to be objective.

We have seen many such stories here and while they are emotionally charged they never contain any facts that can be substantiated. There are also three main ingredients, emotionally charged to create sympathy for the author, an assertion that some event has occurred that appears impossible, and an assertion that a personal experience has occurred that can only be of a supernatural caliber. Other assertions are also usually included such as claims to sanity, emphasis on objectivity and non-emotionalism.

Your story has all of the essential elements. There is also usually a respected second person that is influencing the author. We have seen this before as a priest, an evangelist, a parent, or a peer who has profound faith. Certainly some element of indoctrination is typical.

Under closer scrutiny several usual factors come to light. The story is never an accurate record of events; embellishments, exaggeration, misdirection, and omissions are typical and universal, whether deliberate or not, it doesn’t matter, they will be present.

So all we need now is for CSI to investigate the mystery and highlight the errors in the story. An accurate assessment of the facts will shake your faith.

Incidentally, atheists specifically do not claim to have it all figured-out, they primarily do not know whether gods exist or not, they simply find the god concept unconvincing. They do not make any consistent assertions as to alternatives.
 
ggazoo said:
Before I say anything, just a note that this post isn't about the scientific merit for the existence of God. It's just one person's point of view from past experiences.

I've been surfing these forums on and off for a few months now, and one thing I've found is that it seems to be very lopsided against the existence of God. Can I prove God to anyone? No. But I do believe in God, and here's why.

Last year my wife and I got married after 7 years of courtship. About 4 months before the wedding, my then soon-to-be father in law passes away from cancer. This is hardly fair. But, that doesn't make me give up on my faith; it does test it however. My father-in-law was buried in the cemetery just behind the church where my wife and I were married. After the wedding ceremony, my wife, mother-in-law and brother-in law went to his gravesite so we could have a moment with him. And it was a moment with him. Not his memory, but with him. He was there. I can't explain it unless you've gone through something like that yourself. You can give me all the psychoanalysis that you want. You can also say that we wanted him there so badly, that we convinced ourselves that somehow that he was. Which, is a very logical explanation after such a great loss. But until you're actually touched by the hand of God like that, there's nothing I can say that will convince you otherwise. I'm just telling my story.

Let's stay on the subject of fathers for a minute. Just over 18 years ago I lost my own dad to a heart attack. The only way that I'm ever going to see him again is in the next life. Am I only believing in God as a desperate hope to see him again? Maybe partially, but not fully. Let me explain.

After my dad died we were forced to sell the house. Talk about a big change for a 13-year old. Anyway, a few strange things happened around that time. Me, my mom, my cousin Donna her three girls were packing boxes in the living room. Everything was sealed tight and ready to go. Just then, we heard some music. We weren't sure where it was coming from. The TV was already out of the house, as was the radio. It sounded like piano music. We soon realized that it was coming from one of the boxes. We found the box the music was coming from, and tore it open. We found the source.

The music was coming from a miniature figurine, which was a girl at the piano. My mom loved pianos, and my dad had given this to her as a gift the year before. The thing is, it only plays when running on batteries. And, you guessed it, the batteries we out. The music had stopped just when we opened the box. I took that as a message from God, and from dad. He missed us too, but that was his way of saying goodbye. He was truck driver, and he died on the road, so he never got that chance.

That story had no scientific merit. And, I'm sure that people on this site will have a perfectly suitable explanation for why it happened, and if you do, I'd love to hear it. Was it a sign? I'd like to think so. It sure did ease our pain at the time. A few other strange things happened around the time of the funeral, but that was the most prevalent by far.

I don't consider myself a "Bible-thumper" by any means. I've read the articles about Mary Magdalene. I've read how "virgin" as it pertains to the virgin Mary also means "young woman". I've read the theories on how the crucifixion was rigged. And, I've seen specials on how flooding the world in 40 days is scientifically impossible. But even all that doesn't tempt my faith. Was Jesus a mortal man? Very possible. Was Mary just a "young woman, and not a virgin? Hard to say. Was the crucifixion rigged? I have a hard time believing that one. And, did God flood the world in 40 days? Very possible. If He can perform miracles, He should be able to do anything, right?

I think I'm more open minded than a lot of Christians are to be honest. I don't consider 'The Da Vinci Code' to be blasphemy... I find it interesting. Evolution makes sense to me too; just because species have evolved, that doesn't mean that still isn't a work of God. I think a lot of the Biblical stories have been misconstrued over the years, but I think that at their core the message is still there.

Take someone like Billy Graham. He's probably the only evangelist that I enjoy listening to (other are out for the money). What fascinates me about him is his total conviction to his faith, and I really respect that. He has absolutely no doubt in his mind as to what he believes. None. And he's a very well educated man.

As far as 'evidence' goes... atheists say that over the course of thousands of years, there hasn't been one shred of evidence of the existence of God. But I think the problem is that we're thinking like human beings. God is beyond human comprehension I think. Thousands of years to us equals mere seconds in God's eyes.

Atheists seem to think that they have it all figured out. And to be fair, a lot of Christians do to. Atheists and agnostics alike fault Christians for being close minded. A lot of Christians are, but so are a lot of atheists and agnostics. It works both ways I think.

So there you have it. Like I said, no evidence, and no scientific explanation. Just one person view as to why my faith is so strong.

Thanks for sharing your experiences ggazoo. You say you have been reading this forum for a few months now? Surely you should have realised the kind of reaction your post would get in here?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
i understand why he posted it, but he should have known that NO approach will soften the hearts of non-believers unless they want it to happen.

*shrug*

exactly the reasons that i dont justify my religious beliefs here.
 
The Devil,

NO approach will soften the hearts of non-believers unless they want it to happen.
I.e. substitute reason for emotionalism.
 
Back
Top