A Christian Nation?

[SetiAlpha6]

Do we really want the US to be a "Christian Nation"? Should even Christians want this?

I bring this up because it seems like there are many Christians today that actually think they want this.

But would a “Christian Government” really fix this country even from the Christian’s perspective? I would say not and here is why...

Well... for one thing, if this were a Christian Nation, freedom of religion would be the first thing to be thrown out the window. And the separation of church and state would obviously be null and void.

And then which of the thousands of Christian denominations would come into power? Which of them would be dictating what the "true" Christian faith is to the entire nation? Would it be the Jehovah's Witnesses, or perhaps the Catholic Church with their Pope and with their potential for world domination, or the Baptists? I would think that the Catholics are the most likely to take power since they have the most experience with this sort of thing.

Do we really want to combine religion with the power of life and death over people again, or with the might of the most powerful military on earth? Is this really what people want?

The very existence of each of the different denominations of Christianity is dependant on the freedom of religion and the separation of church and state. Without it, one denomination would probably eventually have national and perhaps even world domination. And it would not matter in the least if it is the “True” one (yours of course). It would be either the most popular or the most ruthless. Why not Joel Osteen’s fantasy worldview?

The different denominations will ever fight over political power in this country and everywhere else. And the more centuries that go by, the more the Christian world will fragment into pieces, like shattered glass. It happens every day as one church breaks away from another to maintain a more “Pure Truth.”

One thing I know for sure, we would certainly not have peace and harmony in our time.

What do you think?



On a side note…

Do you think that the Republicans in the US are more "Christian" in their platform or do you think that the Democrats are?

 

[Adstar]

Do we really want the US to be a "Christian Nation"? Should even Christians want this?

I bring this up because it seems like there are many Christians today that actually think they want this.

But would a “Christian Government” really fix this country even from the Christian’s perspective? I would say not and here is why...

Well... for one thing, if this were a Christian Nation, freedom of religion would be the first thing to be thrown out the window. And the separation of church and state would obviously be null and void.

And then which of the thousands of Christian denominations would come into power? Which of them would be dictating what the "true" Christian faith is to the entire nation? Would it be the Jehovah's Witnesses, or perhaps the Catholic Church with their Pope and with their potential for world domination, or the Baptists? I would think that the Catholics are the most likely to take power since they have the most experience with this sort of thing.

Do we really want to combine religion with the power of life and death over people again, or with the might of the most powerful military on earth? Is this really what people want?

The very existence of each of the different denominations of Christianity is dependant on the freedom of religion and the separation of church and state. Without it, one denomination would probably eventually have national and perhaps even world domination. And it would not matter in the least if it is the “True” one (yours of course). It would be either the most popular or the most ruthless. Why not Joel Osteen’s fantasy worldview?

The different denominations will ever fight over political power in this country and everywhere else. And the more centuries that go by, the more the Christian world will fragment into pieces, like shattered glass. It happens every day as one church breaks away from another to maintain a more “Pure Truth.”

One thing I know for sure, we would certainly not have peace and harmony in our time.

What do you think?



On a side note…

Do you think that the Republicans in the US are more "Christian" in their platform or do you think that the Democrats are?

There will never be a Christian Nation before the return of the Messiah Jesus.

To seek to gain one before hand is dangerous because the only one that would appear would be a deception. And to support a deception would be the worst thing a Christian could do.

I know that there are many "christians?" who want a Christian nation and would probably fall for the deception if someone came along with the organization to attempt to establish one.


All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[SetiAlpha6]

There will never be a Christian Nation before the return of the Messiah Jesus.

To seek to gain one before hand is dangerous because the only one that would appear would be a deception. And to support a deception would be the worst thing a Christian could do.

I know that there are many "christians?" who want a Christian nation and would probably fall for the deception if someone came along with the organization to attempt to establish one.


All Praise The Ancient of Days

Thanks for your response Adstar...

Do you have any idea why the New Testament taught that the Second Coming of Jesus was imminent almost 2000 years ago, that He was "right at the door" even way back then, and that He would return within the lifetimes of Paul and his followers?

I cannot figure that one out.

Also, would you mind telling me what you think of my side note question:

Do you think that the Republicans in the US are more "Christian" in their platform or do you think that the Democrats are?

Thank You!

 

[macon church]

While we may never be a fully Christian nation, we were founded on Judeo-Christian values. The founders knew that the only way the republic would succeed was to have heavy religious overtones in philosophy. And they were right. The farther we have moved from this the worse off this nation has become.

 

[spidergoat]

Democracy isn't mentioned in the Bible, the word or the idea.

 

[pragmathen]

I like this idea! No, not the idea of there being a Christian nation, but the idea that SetiAlpha6 has brought up. Is it considered irony that Adstar was the first one to respond?

It truly is amazing to me to think of all of the different denominations out there where some of the members snidely think, "Of course we're the only absolutely true ones, those others, haha, if they only knew!" To go through your whole life denying simple pleasures (hand-holding, winking, eating coffee-cake, etc) because you either want to please or not displease that ogre in the sky.

But the faithful think "Oh they'll rue the day! Rue, I tell you, when the Lord of Hosts will descend in his Glory and all the unbelievers will be laid as waste." Of course, naturally, this "laying to waste" never includes them. They never think of themselves on the left-hand side of God. Just as they never see the beam in their own eye.

It's as if Christianity is truly self-less rather than selfish. Serving others, indeed. Christians tend to not think of themselves, but more to think of how terribly their neighbors are getting on in life and how much religious correction they're in need of.

There has to be that freedom of religion or thought, whether it's a "Christian" nation or an "Atheist" nation, precisely because of what Seti said--without it, there's going to be a dictator-like quality to the proceedings. But naive Christians, yes like macon church (welcome!), spout their inanities about America growing further and further away from its source and attracting the attention of a vengeful god. Does he realize that most people tend to regard that naivete with a bit of a shaking of the head, rolling of the eyes, or a desire to pat the little tyke on the back and nod reassuringly?

The day America becomes a Christian nation is the day we can kiss all dissension goodbye. After all, if you say God told you to do something and you're in a position of power, who are we to disagree with that? With just the right amount of torture, Christians can make us believe all the kinds of crazy stuff they themselves don't know whether they believe.

 

[Light Travelling]

America was founded on being a Christian nation. We have all heard that America was founded on religious freedom, but what that meant at the time was Christian religious freedom. The early European Americans were very devout Christians, but protestants, who felt they were persecuted by the established Christian churches in Europe. They wanted religious freedom in America - but be sure their idea was Christian religious freedom. There is a current trend to interpret that as a very liberal any / no religious freedom and although the written words of the early settlers indicate this to be true it was certainly not their intention, as it was so ‘understood’ that this was to be taken within the realms of Christianity it wasn’t even worth writing down.

Hey, Thomas Jefferson even wrote his own bible;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

 

[Adstar]

Thanks for your response Adstar...

Do you have any idea why the New Testament taught that the Second Coming of Jesus was imminent almost 2000 years ago, that He was "right at the door" even way back then, and that He would return within the lifetimes of Paul and his followers?

We have been through this one many times. I have explained it to you. I doubt going through a repetition of 20 odd posting exchange will profit you or me.

Also, would you mind telling me what you think of my side note question:

Do you think that the Republicans in the US are more "Christian" in their platform or do you think that the Democrats are?

Thank You!

They are both servants of satan.

But in recent history the republicans have been more effective in deceiving conservative theists in america so as to get their voting support. The democrats do not seem to have been as effective, even though they could gain more support by deceiving the more liberal or politically correct theists in america.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Democracy isn't mentioned in the Bible, the word or the idea.

I agree.

Once one votes for an authority they take a share in the responsibility of all the deeds of that authority.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[SetiAlpha6]

I agree.

Once one votes for an authority they take a share in the responsibility of all the deeds of that authority.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

They certainly do not!

 

[SetiAlpha6]

We have been through this one many times. I have explained it to you. I doubt going through a repetition of 20 odd posting exchange will profit you or me.

Your explanation never made sense to me. And it seemed like you were just avoiding the issue and the truth.

They are both servants of satan.

But in recent history the republicans have been more effective in deceiving conservative theists in america so as to get their voting support. The democrats do not seem to have been as effective, even though they could gain more support by deceiving the more liberal or politically correct theists in america.

But still, the question remains and is, which one actually operates closer to the teachings of Jesus?

Regarding the poor and the outcast of the world, for just one example, which party treats these people in a more Christ like manner? It is my opinion that the Democrats are more Christ like in this particular example.

I am trying to figure this out, I do not have a perfect answer to this myself. I am trying to understand it.

So what do you think?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Do we really want the US to be a "Christian Nation"?

Hell no.

Should even Christians want this? I bring this up because it seems like there are many Christians today that actually think they want this.

It doesn't really matter. It's against the constitution.

Do we really want to combine religion with the power of life and death over people again, or with the might of the most powerful military on earth? Is this really what people want?

It doesn't matter if they want this. It's forbidden by the constitution.

What do you think?

I think it's a non-issue.

On a side note…

Do you think that the Republicans in the US are more "Christian" in their platform or do you think that the Democrats are?

To be a Christian requires the embracing of lies and delusion. Which ever party embraces this more is closer to being Christian.

 

[Adstar]

They certainly do not!

They most certainly do.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Your explanation never made sense to me. And it seemed like you were just avoiding the issue and the truth.

Well whats the point of repeating the same answer to you if you cannot understand it? So again no point in repeating it.

But still, the question remains and is, which one actually operates closer to the teachings of Jesus?

Thats like asking who is closer to supporting abstainance? A pedophile or a rapist.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Well whats the point of repeating the same answer to you if you cannot understand it? So again no point in repeating it.

COOL!

Thats like asking who is closer to supporting abstainance? A pedophile or a rapist.

No it is not! That is a lie! There is little truth in you!

 

[SetiAlpha6]

They most certainly do.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

So does this mean that you cannot vote for anyone unless you can find a perfect human, to vote for, one who will do everything perfectly?

Otherwise you would be guilty of all of the mistakes they make. And then you would, of course, be guilty for all of the suffering those mistakes caused, and guilty of all of the suffering that suffering caused, and then guilty for all of the suffering that suffering caused, and on to infinity... Oh brother! Hopefully you can see how ridiculous this gets!

Do you ever vote for any candidate in any election?

 

[Adstar]

So does this mean that you cannot vote for anyone unless you can find a perfect human, to vote for, one who will do everything perfectly?

Otherwise you would be guilty of all of the mistakes they make. And then you would, of course, be guilty for all of the suffering those mistakes caused, and guilty of all of the suffering that suffering caused, and then guilty for all of the suffering that suffering caused, and on to infinity... Oh brother! Hopefully you can see how ridiculous this gets!

Do you ever vote for any candidate in any election?

No i never vote for any candidate in any elections.

Lets take an example. Who is responsible for the wars launched in iraq and afganistan that have caused the death of innocents? I am talking of babies and little ones who have been maimed and killed in these lands?

george bush was the leader of the leading power that initiated and lead it's allies into war. So who placed george bush in power? Yes it was the voters who elected him that’s who.

Oh and george bush was voted in twice he had two terms in office. His authority allowed abortion to continue in the USA. So all whom voted for this authority take an equal part of the massacre of the innocents perpetrated by abortionists under the authority of the government of the USA. All who voted for geroge bush are murderers, they have the blood of these innocents on their hands.

satan wants all to have a part in the evil of the authorities who serve him. It's not good enough to just have kings and the upper classes, the judges, the police, the generals and their troops being the agents of evil deeds. satan wants to spread the guilt around and democracy has been an excellent method of doing this. Remember democracy is government by the people for the people, so responsibility for any deeds done by such a democratic authority is shared equally amongst the people. Because they elected that authority into government.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Lets take an example. Who is responsible for the wars launched in iraq and afganistan that have caused the death of innocents? I am talking of babies and little ones who have been maimed and killed in these lands?

george bush was the leader of the leading power that initiated and lead it's allies into war. So who placed george bush in power? Yes it was the voters who elected him that’s who.

The 9/11 terrorists caused all of this. Not my vote for a particular candidate.

So far, you can't vote for any candidate ever without being held accountable by God for every evil thing they do, even if you do not personally agree with it. This also must mean that you would get none of the credit when they do something good as well. You understand that, right?

Do the U.S. President and all of the people who voted for him, get any points for aiding the people of Pakistan now? I thought not!

Do you refuse to pay taxes to your government? If you do pay taxes, are you not supporting and enabling everything that your government does whether good or evil? Are you not actually paying your government to do the very things you both love and hate? By your reasoning, are you not guilty of every sin in this way as well? On the other hand, is it not also a sin if you refuse to pay taxes?

Why would Jesus then ever teach his own people to pay their taxes? Wouldn't that make them all guilty for all the sins of their government? So why would he command that they do this, when He knows better than anyone, that it will result in their condemnation?

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Oh and george bush was voted in twice he had two terms in office. His authority allowed abortion to continue in the USA. So all whom voted for this authority take an equal part of the massacre of the innocents perpetrated by abortionists under the authority of the government of the USA. All who voted for geroge bush are murderers, they have the blood of these innocents on their hands.

This is a lie... Only the people that have and perform abortions are guilty of them.

If your statement is true then God ultimately has the blood of all of the innocents on His hands because He has both the authority and power to prevent abortions, yet He does nothing to stop them. Is He not guilty of them as well by allowing them? That is where this thinking eventually leads!

In the Old Testament He commands the killing of babies and children all over the place. You already know this! I know you are OK with that! You have told me so in the past.

The Bible you read even teaches you that there are no human innocents, that all are worthy of death. That innocents do not exist! So what does it matter if one is killed or dies. That is exactly what my Christian brother told me a few months ago. I just sat there stunned. Time for you to throw him into hell along with all of the rest.

What a confusing mess...

 

[Adstar]

The 9/11 terrorists caused all of this. Not my vote for a particular candidate.

So far, you can't vote for any candidate ever without being held accountable by God for every evil thing they do, even if you do not personally agree with it. This also must mean that you would get none of the credit when they do something good as well. You understand that, right?

Do the U.S. President and all of the people who voted for him, get any points for aiding the people of Pakistan now? I thought not!

Do you refuse to pay taxes to your government? If you do pay taxes, are you not supporting and enabling everything that your government does whether good or evil? Are you not actually paying your government to do the very things you both love and hate? By your reasoning, are you not guilty of every sin in this way as well? On the other hand, is it not also a sin if you refuse to pay taxes?

Jesus said give unto Caesar what is Caesars. It is law to pay taxes and i pay taxes. People are required to pay taxes irrespective of their voting status. The way the government spends taxes is in its hands and they are responsible for what ever they do with them. Not me

Why would Jesus then ever teach his own people to pay their taxes? Wouldn't that make them all guilty for all the sins of their government? So why would he command that they do this, when He knows better than anyone, that it will result in their condemnation?

Of course it does not result in any condemnation for we are ordered by Jesus to pay taxes. The Government takes the responsibility for what they spend their tax revenues on.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days