9/11 was an inside job

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ROFL

I notice you didn't quote this part:


Like I am going to give damn what you say when you hand me this crap:


When the specific information about the steel in the WTC is not available and those charts and tables are useless when we don't know the thickness of the steel under the conditions we are discussing.

And you don't have a shred of evidence about how much insulation might have been removed due to impact. That is just another made up rationalization.

psik

Red Herrings. Readers feel free to scroll up to where I've posted a link to the blueprints, etc...
The NIST report conducted a study on insulation removal- of course it's not known the exact amount of insulation removed- it's guessed at based on the likeliest result of the impact, given it's composition, distribution and mass, angle of impact and speed. That's what's known as a pretty educated guess even though psikey would like to deceive people into thinking it's an off the wall guess pulled out of some "government disinformation agents" buttocks.
 
I never thought you gave a damn about what anyone says. It shows in every non-answer. Just stick to your talking points.
 
...When the specific information about the steel in the WTC is not available and those charts and tables are useless when we don't know the thickness of the steel under the conditions we are discussing.

And you don't have a shred of evidence about how much insulation might have been removed due to impact. That is just another made up rationalization....

That's your problem if you don't have enough data to refute the obvious. And there never will be the data since the towers don't exist any more.
 
That's your problem if you don't have enough data to refute the obvious. And there never will be the data since the towers don't exist any more.

Well it is pretty curious that that kind of information is not available on any of the over 200 buildings around the world over 800 feet tall.

Gravity is the same all over the planet. The type of structural steel is known.

The idea that this is a difficult problem is absurd. The Empire State Building is 80 years old and designed more than a decade before the first electronic computer existed. No, it is the fact that so many people regard this as a difficult problem that makes this entire situation ridiculous. Physicists can find the Higgs Boson but can't ask about the center of gravity of the tilted top portion of a skyscraper.

Yeah, this says very curious things about our academics and how little most people understand 300 year old physics. This video says a lot about America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0wk4qG2mIg

They should have been able to explain the seasons in 8th grade.

psik
 
Ok, cut to the chase: You keep going on and on with your Red Herring and fundamentally flawed understanding of physics.

Explain:
-What should have happened with the tilted top portion of WTC and
-Why did it not happen?
 
Here is one of the few decent conspiracy videos I have seen:

[video=youtube;8xrRBmanBiU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xrRBmanBiU[/video]

psik
 
Jesse Ventura's TV show 'Conspiracy Theory' has now brought some mainstream media attention to the energy beam theories of Dr. Judy Wood, who seeks to demonstrate that most of the buildings just simply turned to dust in mid air.

http://wheredidthetowersgo.com

SpireTurnsToDust.jpg
 
Jesse Ventura's TV show 'Conspiracy Theory' has now brought some mainstream media attention to the energy beam theories of Dr. Judy Wood, who seeks to demonstrate that most of the buildings just simply turned to dust in mid air.

http://wheredidthetowersgo.com

SpireTurnsToDust.jpg

I see your energy beam and raise you an Extraterrestrial energy beam, from the future, via another dimension. Ha ha!

Sometimes it is scary how weird people are.....
 
ROFL

Curious how there was no motion blur like that in the fall of WTC7.

psik

Well, on closer inspection, I take back the motion blur comment.
It is dust shooting up the remaining parts of the building because it is collapsing.
In the third picture you can clearly see that the 'spike' is already halfway down to the ground.
The last picture just shows the dust left in the air.

One would have to be stupid to believe an energy beam did that. Or 7.
 
What is the effect of QUANTITY and CONDUCTIVITY on the TIME it takes
The amount of time at which structural steel will fail is entirely dependent on the amount of energy released by the crash.

to raise the CORE temperature of the steel?
What do you mean by core? The correct formulation of the question is this: How much energy is required to cause (name the type of steel structural member) to fail?

The steel on the 81st floor of the south tower had to be strong enough to support another 29 stories.
Steel loses its strength when it gets hot.

So how thick was the steel? How many tons of steel were there?
It wasn't only steel that failed. The concrete did, too. The structure failed. It was a network of individually inadequate members which only could support the load when acting in tandem. You need to understand network analysis to try to address this. It requires competency in linear algebra and calculus. Not you strong points.

How did conductivity affect this heating?
Conductivity didn't cause the heating. Energy from the crash did. At half the thermal conductivity, twice as much energy will be conducted in the same amount of time. You need a course in freshman physics to grasp this.

Even if the fire reached 1100 degrees F how long would it take the steel to weaken?
You are still failing to understand freshman concepts. Temperature does not bend steel. Energy does. I can expose a steel paper clip to a million degrees without affecting it. For example, I can shoot an extremely hot atom into it with no affect at all. On the other hand, if I dip it into a room-sized vat of molten steel, the paper clip will rapidly liquefy. Explain this and you will begin to understand the difference between temperature and energy. Again, this is freshman science.

And why didn't this heating steel sag and slowly lower the structure above rather than suddenly give way?
See the answers above, and see if you can now answer your own question.

People who have decided to BELIEVE in collapse can simply ignore such obvious questions.
People who believe in their own spurious assumptions simply ignore the laws of nature. Now: which one are you going to run with? Therein lies the rub.

The south tower came down less than one hour after impact so why isn't everyone wondering how the steel heated so fast?
Because they either studied science, and know what you don't know, or else they are illiterate in science, but rely on people who studied it. Then there's you. You are neither able to address the fundamental concepts, nor are you able to accept the correct answers to questions about fundamental concepts. And along the way you've convinced yourself that you actually know something about a subject in which you could not pass the freshman exams. In spite of this, you are vociferously arguing with science professionals, academics and people with advanced science degrees, who are on same page because they understand and/or master the fundamentals.

And that does not even raise the issue of how the top 29 stories tilted 22 degrees so quickly.
Calling something you don't understand an issue doesn't make it an issue. It simply remains a principle of science that you have no experience with. You are reacting with skepticism to a question that requires the application of freshman math and science. Without it, you're jumping to conclusions without any valid basis for doing so.

And then they don't ask about the center of gravity at all.
...And then you ask about CG for no reason at all. Until you can demonstrate how to apply CG in an equation, what good is it? What if I said the CG was 1, a million or a trillion? Would you even know what to say to me?

Scientific idiocy!
See if you can pass the freshman exams, and get back with me, and let's see if we can decide who's the idiot.

No I was not. I never said where the center of rotation was. Grumpy said the center of rotation was at the center of gravity. But he has never specified where the center of gravity was along the height of the tilted top 29 stories. Here is a video supposedly demonstrating the center of rotation.
You're ignoring the heterogeneous distribution of reactions in the network. It's a bad assumption, as is the failure to recognize the structure as a network in the first place, something that would be hard to model under static conditions, much less the complexity of modeling the effect of a plane crashing into the structure. One of the quintessential aspects of a novice is the tendency to oversimplify. This is your most obvious shortcoming. You're simply unqualified to comment on structural engineering, strength of materials and physics--all of which are prerequisites to an intelligent discussion on this subject.

It says nothing about the center of gravity.
So what is the center of gravity of a homogeneous rectangular prism? When you figure that out, explain how the prism can be caused to twist or rotate under failure, and how it can be prevented from twisting or rotating under failure.

But the moment of inertia does not explain how all of the columns could be sheared regardless of where the center of rotation and center of gravity were.
The way you tell it. You were the one advocating against any twisting or rotating during collapse. In order to prove it, you would need to apply the moment of inertia. You would need to prove that the amount of torque to overcome the inertia was not present. Now let's say you can find the CG and moment of inertia for one of the towers. The question is: do you even know how to apply these parameters to answer what I asked immediately above?

You are obviously confusing CG and moment of inertia, temperature and energy, statics and dynamics, idealizations and complex real world systems, and science and bogus assumptions. Worse, you are confusing knowledge and fear of the unknown, as you are confusing the integrity of hard work (like buckling down and cracking the books) vs the dishonesty of skipping the work, and pretending to understand it as a matter of uneducated guesswork --and of runaway fantasies about cause and effect.
 
I don't know whether it was an ''inside job'' or not, but the reporting of the collapse of WTC-7 23 minutes ahead of it's actual collapsing
does no favours to the official story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A83846Pb1-A

jan.

http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm

See the bottom of the page about the great media conspiracy of knowing about WTC 7 coming down before it did. It was pretty obvious to firefighters working the scene that the building was unstable, and would come down. You can either believe that some media maybe mistranslated that into coming down, as in it's already happening, or you can believe that all the media, even international ones, had a script to read from, and everyone is in on the secret, except the public.
 
I don't know whether it was an ''inside job'' or not, but the reporting of the collapse of WTC-7 23 minutes ahead of it's actual collapsing
does no favours to the official story.

They evacuated the area due to risk of collapse starting at 3pm. At 4:45PM the standpipe system failed, indicating serious damage occurring within the building. At that point every news organization out there was reporting "nearby buildings evacuated due to risk of collapse." It wouldn't surprise me that at some point a reporter misread that as "nearby buildings evacuated due to collapse."

At 5:21PM the final collapse began. It took ~10 seconds total.
 
Jan Ardena
I don't know whether it was an ''inside job'' or not, but the reporting of the collapse of WTC-7 23 minutes ahead of it's actual collapsing
does no favours to the official story.


One report by a British newsreader making an on air mistake does not reporting make. She was simply wrong, through misunderstanding or misinformation. Only a Troother sees conspiracy and intent when incompetence, confusion and misinformation suffice as an explanation.

psikeyhackr

Even if the fire reached 1100 degrees F how long would it take the steel to weaken?

Depends on it's configuration. If the steel is in the form of wire 0.35 thick, almost instantaneously. One inch wire-5 minutes, maybe. If it is a beam several inches thick(as in the Twin Towers), about an hour before the beam approaches 850 degrees and loses 50% of it's structural strength. If it is a block several feet thick, all day.

The wire has such a small cross section it is not possible for it to conduct enough heat away to remain below failure temp, the beam has a larger cross section, does much better at conduction and lasts longer, a block is very good at conduction with it's large cross section in all dimensions. Depending upon temperatures in the immediate vicinity and total energy available, of course. Even a block exposed to constant 1100 degree temperatures and large excesses of available heat energy will fail in only a couple of hours(it doesn't help to be able to conduct well if there is no place or other metal at lower temps to conduct that energy to). Good rule of thumb with steel, if you can see it glowing in daylight, get the heck out of there. In darkness this translates to Ferrari Red, between the first faint glow and Cherry red(yes, I'm an amateur blacksmith, but not a very good one).

You keep trying to treat the steel in the tower like blocks, thinking the whole block must reach high temps before failure occurs on any one floor. The interior of the towers was not solid, it was mostly air. The steel was in a thin skin on the outside and a bunch of vertical columns in the middle, the floors served no structural purpose other than to hold up the contents of that floor, transferring that weight to the inner and outer steel frames. The floors were an acre each. The aircraft damaged both the inner and outer frames on several floors, but the buildings survived that. It was the multi-acre fire zone within which enough steel was exposed to enough heat that the rest of the steel in the building could not support the weight of the building that caused it to collapse through at least one floor. Gravity took over from there, the kinetic energy of the falling parts overwhelmed by several orders of magnitude any remaining resistance the structure could provide. That why NIST stopped at collapse initiation, no force or structure on Earth, short of a solid granite pyramid, would give any different outcome.

The reason the top tilted on Two was that the collapse initiated along one wall, causing that side to move downward. Since the top was still largely intact, that movement, acting through the center of gravity, became a torque, that torque moved the bottom one way, the top the other, the sideways motion sheared all remaining connections and the top came straight down until impact and collisions caused it to disintegrate.

That is what happened, deal with it.

Grumpy:cool:
 
Depends on it's configuration. If the steel is in the form of wire 0.35 thick, almost instantaneously. One inch wire-5 minutes, maybe. If it is a beam several inches thick(as in the Twin Towers), about an hour before the beam approaches 850 degrees and loses 50% of it's structural strength. If it is a block several feet thick, all day.

We are talking about the supposed collapses of two nearly identical skyscrapers supposedly due at least in part to fire.

Those are the only configurations I care about. So conductivity must be taken into account so how much steel was there to conduct had to be a factor.

So why are you wasting time talking about irrelevant configurations?

psik
 
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