9/11 Conspiracy Thread (There can be only one!)

[fedr808]

well i can tell you guys one thing. Ive seen some of the columns from 9/11. Steel doesnt bend and break like that under anything other than heat. Also, any form of explosives would have left pretty darn obvious evidence. And yet.....there is none. You guys cant go about this by trying to disprove the original theory, you have to prove your own. Which no one has. Also there is a .001% chance thaqt any of the steel that was hit by the plane could ever be identified from the rubble

 

[GeoffP]

So what? Are you saying that the bolts were incredibly important or something?

Only in the sense that they held together the massive steel structures responsible for supporting the building. But as an icon of monotheistic worship, I expect they have little importance.

You're right. Apparently aluminum can't emit orange, period. Headspin dealt with this topic more then a year ago, I just found out through google...

Ah, but I'm even righter, because it can.

How do you get aluminum to 1000 °C (orange-hot temperature) if the aluminum is liquid and free to flow, unless there’s a big pan in the building to hold the aluminum while you heat it past its melting point?

So aluminum does glow orange. I'm sure you think the author is probably senseless, though. Your argument would be that he doesn't understand metallurgy, probably.

Very funny . Anyway, you write grants? Assistant professors do that?

Yes, and everything else.

Best regards,

Geoff

 

[GeoffP]

Oh: a side-note to Scott - I realize you're in more frequent contact with "Headspin" about 9/11, but please be careful about what you post in the forums especially with regard to inadvertent citations. As in semi-personal info.

 

[scott3x]

Only in the sense that they held together the massive steel structures responsible for supporting the building. But as an icon of monotheistic worship, I expect they have little importance.

I haven't seen NIST make a big deal about the bolts; have you seen differently?

You're right. Apparently aluminum can't emit orange, period. Headspin dealt with this topic more then a year ago, I just found out through google...

Ah, but I'm even righter, because it can.

I'll trust Headspin's word over yours (I doubt you've done the amount of research on the alternative theory that he has). But if you had any evidence to back up your claim...

How do you get aluminum to 1000 °C (orange-hot temperature) if the aluminum is liquid and free to flow, unless there’s a big pan in the building to hold the aluminum while you heat it past its melting point?

So aluminum does glow orange. I'm sure you think the author is probably senseless, though. Your argument would be that he doesn't understand metallurgy, probably.

I see no mention of aluminum glowing orange from the above quote (which I'm not sure where you got).

Very funny . Anyway, you write grants? Assistant professors do that?

Yes, and everything else.

Again, very funny .

 

[GeoffP]

And what might that be?

That it's a hoax.

How is the most important part of the story a 'glaring hole'? In any case, if you don't want to call it a glaring hole, what -would- you call NIST's weak attempts to justify why it hasn't tested for thermite in its steel samples?

I would call it a glaring hole because it wasn't sourced. Despite the below, I still don't call it sourced. Why did Ms. MacKinlay collect some of the dust? It strikes me as very strange indeed. How do we know it was preserved and stored correctly, uncontaminated? I note she's an artist. What other chemicals exist in her apartment that could generate the same signature?

Some of the other statements strike me a little oddly too.

Janette MacKinlay is a visual artist, and a survivor of the World Trade Center attacks. On September 11th, she watched the drama unfold from her apartment across the street from the World Trade Center.

She was across the street. It doesn't exactly strike me as a "survivor" tale, to be honest, broken glass notwithstanding. Moreover, her history strikes me - in the days of Bill Ayers and his planned 'eugenics' program on unrectifiable Republicans - as a little...fishy. Is that pilchard I smell?

Janette wrote a book about her experiences entitled Fortunate: A Personal Diary of 9/11 illustrated with photographs including the artwork, and ikebana flower arrangements she created, as part of her own efforts to heal. Exhibitions of her artwork, included Deception Dollars.

Hmm. Odd title.

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2005/06/131248.php
http://www.sf911truth.org/contest.html

Not exactly undecided, is she?

By cosmic synchronicity, the Deception Dollar artist emailed me her name and phone number on the very day that I met Janette, in person, in San Francisco where members of the 9/11 Commission were speaking before the Commonwealth Club. I traded her a David Ray Griffin book- The New Pearl Harbor for a copy of her book, and that was the beginning of our friendship and collaboration. Janette joined the Northern California 9/11 Truth Alliance and became a vital, active member, treasurer, host, organizer, speaker, as well as a liason between the West Coast and New York City, when she decided to return to her refurbished apartment when she discovered it was available to rent.

If I'm not mistaken, the Commission was with the Commonwealth Club (no invitation for me, naturally) on Sept 6, 2004? So she was well into the movement at this time. When did she send this material to Dr. Jones? Steve announced his findings in 2007, not so?

Steven Jones - The Physical Evidence of Thermite in the WTC Dust
by Christopher Bollyn
16 May 2007

9/11 researcher Dr. Steven E. Jones of Brigham Young University, in a newly published paper entitled "Revisiting 9/11/2001 – Applying the Scientific Method," explains the important physical evidence of Thermite (and its analogues such as Thermate) found in the dust of the World Trade Center. This paper discusses the tiny iron-rich spheres, some as large as 1 or 2 mm, which were found in great abundance in the dust from the WTC.

http://www.bollyn.com/index/?id=10714

Curious. A three-year time lag at the very least. Why so long? Could it be because the thesis was stalling?

NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel.
******************************
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

I thankyou. However, having looked at their argument on that page, it's reasonably compelling: they have no evidence of a controlled demolition at this time. Neither does anyone else; and they probably know full well that the story shifts and shifts again - first the spikes must be explosions, then there aren't any explosions because the steel was being carefully melted, the building was falling at free fall speeds, ok it wasn't falling at free fall speeds but it was nanothermite, and so on and so on. Why should they lend any credence to the hydra that is 9/11 "Studies"?

It's routine when arson is suspected; as one might imagine, buildings being slyly demolished isn't something that comes up too often.

Is it? Where? Why would NIST test for it when there's no collary evidence of demolition?

Ah: they're all in on it, are they? I doff my tinfoil hat to you.

Best regards,

Geoff

 

[GeoffP]

I haven't seen NIST make a big deal about the bolts; have you seen differently?

Nope; but they're a critical element that should be examined. What isn't NIST telling us about the bolts? etc.

I'll trust Headspin's word over yours (I doubt you've done the amount of research on the alternative theory that he has). But if you had any evidence to back up your claim...

I do think I see that Headspin's involvement in the 9/11 case is a bit more substantial than I suspected previously. But in any event this is argument from false authority, and I have presented my evidence again and again.

I see no mention of aluminum glowing orange from the above quote (which I'm not sure where you got).

That is errant nonsense. It clearly states a reactive temperature for aluminum to glow orange. Please don't be disingenuous.

Again, very funny .

My compliments, sir.

Best regards,

Geoff

 

[scott3x]

Oh: a side-note to Scott - I realize you're in more frequent contact with "Headspin" about 9/11, but please be careful about what you post in the forums especially with regard to inadvertent citations. As in semi-personal info.

What I quoted was from a forum. I believe 'fair use' does apply here...

 

[GeoffP]

Actually it was that you let slip personal info, I think. Well, it was in concert with Headspin, but anyway.

 

[scott3x]

Nope; but they're a critical element that should be examined. What isn't NIST telling us about the bolts? etc.

Geoff, you're not even a truther; I'm -not- going to chase your fictitious truther claims .

I'll trust Headspin's word over yours (I doubt you've done the amount of research on the alternative theory that he has). But if you had any evidence to back up your claim...

I do think I see that Headspin's involvement in the 9/11 case is a bit more substantial than I suspected previously.

But in any event this is argument from false authority, and I have presented my evidence again and again.

I don't recall seeing any evidence on this one; if what you say is true, care to present it again?

How do you get aluminum to 1000 °C (orange-hot temperature) if the aluminum is liquid and free to flow, unless there’s a big pan in the building to hold the aluminum while you heat it past its melting point?

So aluminum does glow orange. I'm sure you think the author is probably senseless, though. Your argument would be that he doesn't understand metallurgy, probably.

I see no mention of aluminum glowing orange from the above quote (which I'm not sure where you got).

That is errant nonsense. It clearly states a reactive temperature for aluminum to glow orange. Please don't be disingenuous.

It doesn't. Read your original quote and show me where it says 'orange'.

 

[scott3x]

Actually it was that you let slip personal info, I think. Well, it was in concert with Headspin, but anyway.

I don't recall letting slip any personal info. If you're referring to the fact that you're an assistant professor, you yourself revealed that in this forum. I really -don't- want to go through the mighty tangle to prove that to you, however.

 

[scott3x]

If they planted explosives...why did they need to bother to sacrifice good government agents on the planes hitting the building?

Just blow the buildings with explosives and blame in on Al-quida or Carrot Top or East Korea. Much..much easier..and no black ops agents have to die.

Ever consider the possibility that perhaps that particular black op agent was going to spill the beans? Or perhaps said black op agent wanted to dissapear from the public record...

 

[scott3x]

Originally Posted by scott3x

The link I have posted tells another story. Perhaps I should post an excerpt to show you that the BBC is not all there is to it. Here's the first story:

**********************************************
1 - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2001Sep15.html

Washington Post - 9/16/01 - 2nd Witness Arrested; 25 Held for Questioning
Two of 19 suspects named by the FBI, Saeed Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi, have the same names as men listed at a housing facility for foreign military trainees at Pensacola. Two others, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alnami, have names similar to individuals listed in public records as using the same address inside the base. In addition, a man named Saeed Alghamdi graduated from the Defense Language Institute at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, while men with the same names as two other hijackers, Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari, appear as graduates of the U.S. International Officers School at Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala., and the Aerospace Medical School at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio, respectively.

order Mohamed Atta and the Venice Flying Circus, the real story of the Hijackers
**********************************************
http://www.welfarestate.com/911/

Er...from another Troofer site? No, thankyou.

You may have noticed that the original story was from the Washington Post, which is hardly a truther site. The link now appears to be dead, but if you're american, I'm sure you can find the relevant article in a library...

I prefer more strongly sourced media. If you turn up your nose at the BBC - that bastion of right-wing media - there is also Der Spiegel and the NYT.

I certainly don't trust the NYT, although it does offer occassional nuggets of information, if inadvertently. As to Der Spiegel, I took a look on its wikipedia entry. I think the following excerpts about sum it up:
"Der Spiegel has a long track record of uncovering political misconduct and creating scandals, earning itself the moniker "Sturmgeschütz der Demokratie" (assault gun of democracy) in its early decades." (emphasis mine)

And to sum up:
"With Stefan Aust taking over in 1994, the paper's political stance is said to have drifted towards the right. Some argue its position had changed from being critical, but supportive towards the red-Green government to a "neo-liberal", "Thatcherist" stance."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Spiegel

May we continue with the discussion of the dust's origin?

I've already answered that.

Lastly, although I know this seems to have gone by the wayside, I must ask where you are in relation to your viewing of SLC. This is an important element of the argument that needs to be dealt with to maintain the principle of fairness.

I have never asked you to watch more truther video then I have official story video. If you want to quote an excerpt from the -transcript- of that film to support one of your views, go ahead.

 

[GeoffP]

Geoff, you're not even a truther; I'm -not- going to chase your fictitious truther claims .

So I have to have statutary membership in some clique before you'll treat my claims seriously?

However, it doesn't mean he's correct.

:-(

It doesn't. Read your original quote and show me where it says 'orange'.

Scott, you cannot convince me of your blindness, no matter how hard you try. You are, for instance, proficiently operating a keyboard.

How do you get aluminum to 1000 °C (orange-hot temperature) if the aluminum is liquid and free to flow, unless there’s a big pan in the building to hold the aluminum while you heat it past its melting point?

I have rendered the word in the appropriate thermal colour.

Best,

Geoff

 

[GeoffP]

This is a random picture of Conan and his female side-kick.

It has nothing to do with 9/11. Although it was playing then, somewhere.

 

[MacGyver1968]

Ever consider the possibility that perhaps that particular black op agent was going to spill the beans? Or perhaps said black op agent wanted to dissapear from the public record...

What? That doesn't make sense to me. So your saying they had to do a blacks ops mission (take over the planes) in order to prevent the black ops from spilling the beans about the black ops mission?

Dude...what state do you live in?..because obviously y'all get MUCH better weed in that state than we do in Texas.

 

[GeoffP]

Mac, there were clearly rogue elements within the black ops mission. Fortunately, a black ops mission within the former mission were able to take them out. Clearly, you are part of the coverup.

And let's not forget...

Checkmate!

 

[scott3x]

So I have to have statutary membership in some clique before you'll treat my claims seriously?

Geoff, quit kidding around. If you actually -believed- that bolts were important, that'd be one thing. But you're just trying to yank my chain.

I do think I see that Headspin's involvement in the 9/11 case is a bit more substantial than I suspected previously.

However, it doesn't mean he's correct.

:-(

Very funny, laugh . Personally, however, I think we'll make a believer out of you yet ;-).

Scott, you cannot convince me of your blindness, no matter how hard you try. You are, for instance, proficiently operating a keyboard.

How do you get aluminum to 1000 °C (orange-hot temperature) if the aluminum is liquid and free to flow, unless there’s a big pan in the building to hold the aluminum while you heat it past its melting point?

I have rendered the word in the appropriate thermal colour.

Ah. I certainly don't think I'm the only one who doesn't always see statements that are in brackets. In any case, where did you get that quote to begin with?

 

[scott3x]

This is a random picture of Conan and his female side-kick.

It has nothing to do with 9/11. Although it was playing then, somewhere.

Laugh . I think I read a Conan comic book once. And I guess the game I play has that type of dynamic in it somewhat (World of Warcraft). However, I'm more of a sci fi fan in general .

Although I've liked some works that have historical elements in them; Canada's Guy Gavriel Kay comes to mind. Or authors who combine fantasy and sci fi, such as C.S. Friedman.

 

[scott3x]

What? That doesn't make sense to me. So your saying they had to do a blacks ops mission (take over the planes) in order to prevent the black ops from spilling the beans about the black ops mission?

What I'm saying is that from what I've read, the plane manifests are highly suspicious. I can easily imagine that they were doctored. In which case, said black ops agent didn't have to actually die on the plane itself; or even die at all.

Dude...what state do you live in?..because obviously y'all get MUCH better weed in that state than we do in Texas.

I live in Canada. Where we have provinces .

 

[MacGyver1968]

Very funny, laugh . Personally, however, I think we'll make a believer out of you yet ;-).

LOL!!! HAHAHHAAHAHHA (wipes tear from eye) BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Geoff...a believer? When giant pink monkeys fly out of my ass!


Wait!!! that's it!!! giant pink flying monkeys that smell like my ass were responsible for the attack!