9/11 Conspiracy Thread (There can be only one!)

[KennyJC]

Do you honestly believe that I think that the alternative theories I believe are not the most likely explanation?

You are a fantasist, a liar and stupid all at once. It's irrelevant what you think of facts.

Sure. All those pesky facts making it clear that 9/11 was an inside job...

And yet the scientific community is unconvinced by these 'facts'. Kooks are relegated out of the scientific process... goodbye.

Actually, we know a lot of things that they know. Such as the fact that NIST knows so very much about nanothermites and they failed to test for thermite being used on the WTC collapses altogether (despite this being common practice)

Common practice? Despite my repeated requests, you (nor any other truther) can not provide an example of any kind of thermite cutting a thick steel beam remotely and horizontally.

Common practice?

I would argue 2 things:
1- You seem to be working for the government. As such, I believe you may have an impulse, be it unconscious or conscious or some mix of the 2, to want to see all of it in a good light.

Really, you have to give up this spy thing. Seriously. You look idiotic enough as it is, but when you throw the spy thing into the mix, it really does you no favors.

2- As far as I know, you have not taken the time to actually read a full fledged book of someone who disagrees with the official story of 9/11.

I'm already fully aware of the fundamentals of truthism. I've read websites, watched their propaganda movies, listened to them in debates vs skeptics. Why would a book change my views when I'm already so well versed on truthers idiocy?

3- There's still plenty of time to present you with more data that may eventually change your mind. I'm just not sure if I'll be the one doing it ;-).

If there was actually anything out there that would change my mind, truthers would have shouted it from a mountain top by now and I would have been convinced. But put simply, it can't be an inside job if it wasn't an inside job.

So, whether the towers fell at 10 or 15 seconds, their conclusion still stands:
"It is utterly impossible for a "gravitational collapse" to proceed so destructively through a path of such great resistance in anywhere near free-fall times."

In any building collapse whether it be controlled or accidental, gravity is the most powerful part of the collapse. Ask any demolition expert what their greatest weapon is and I'm sure they'll say gravity.

Please watch my 10 story apartment building collapse due to fire again. I would rather have hoped it would have stopped you repeating the 'free fall' and 'path of least resistance' bullshit.

 

[EndLightEnd]

I would rather have hoped it would have stopped you repeating the 'free fall' and 'path of least resistance' bullshit.

Yea, get that physics bullshit out of here.

 

[KennyJC]

Yea, get that physics bullshit out of here.

If you go back and read my point, I long ago provided to Scott video evidence of a 10 story apartment building collapsing due to fire at near free fall speed.

Unless the government got to that building too, it proves that it is indeed physically possible for a building to collapse to its footprint at near free fall speed without explosives being required.

If you want me to show this video again, just ask and I'll go find it.

 

[scott3x]

You are a fantasist, a liar and stupid all at once.

Kenny, it's these kind of personal attacks that get me to not want to respond to you at all. It's also these types of continued personal attacks that make it clear that the moderators on here don't care to enforce their 'no personal attack' guideline, or atleast to only do so when they feel like it.

When compounded with this 'mighty tangle' of a thread, it all makes me think that perhaps my time would be better spent elsewhere, with people who seriously want to investigate the issues surrounding 9/11, instead of those who simply want to bunch up all the points in one absurdly large thread and somehow believe that this is adequately addressing all the controversial views surrounding 9/11.

 

[Read-Only]

Kenny, it's these kind of personal attacks that get me to not want to respond to you at all. It's also these types of continued personal attacks that make it clear that the moderators on here don't care to enforce their 'no personal attack' guideline, or atleast to only do so when they feel like it.

When compounded with this 'mighty tangle' of a thread, it all makes me think that perhaps my time would be better spent elsewhere, with people who seriously want to investigate the issues surrounding 9/11, instead of those who simply want to bunch up all the points in one absurdly large thread and somehow believe that this is adequately addressing all the controversial views surrounding 9/11.

EXCELLENT idea, Scott! Yes, by all means - take it elsewhere. You're making absolutely no headway here among intelligent people. Go somewhere that people are willing to accept the flimsiest bit of fiction as truth, who understand very little or nothing about engineering, architectural design, metallurgy, basic physics and all the rest.

You will be welcomed there with open arms and each of you will be quite happy to share your delusions with each other!

Go for it !!!!!

 

[KennyJC]

Kenny, it's these kind of personal attacks that get me to not want to respond to you at all. It's also these types of continued personal attacks that make it clear that the moderators on here don't care to enforce their 'no personal attack' guideline, or atleast to only do so when they feel like it.

Well I don't personally care what the admins think of my ridiculing you. But rest assured, you completely deserve it.

Thousands of people were murdered that day, and I know you pretend to care about that, but when you go trying to rewrite their history, you are nothing but a turd.

 

[EndLightEnd]

Theres evidence for both sides, but the people defending the official story are the only ones getting out of line with personal insults. I wonder why that is...

 

[KennyJC]

but the people defending the official story are the only ones getting out of line with personal insults. I wonder why that is...

If there is incontrovertible evidence that the government was complicit in 9/11 and I deny it, then you should be the ones pouring insults on me.

And I would deserve it.

 

[John99]

Anyway, I encourage you to see:
The Pentagon (Smoking Gun Version):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5296595694237574426

Just some more wanna be filmmakers. Dont waste my time scott.

And pretty bad ones too.

:bugeye:

 

[TW Scott]

Theres evidence for both sides, but the people defending the official story are the only ones getting out of line with personal insults. I wonder why that is...

It's easy. When a group of sanae, rational, intelligent people are stuck in an argument with a group of people who don;t fact check their statemets, provide shoddy evidence, and generally will not listen to actual expert in the firld, they tend to say to one another "What a group of &@#%ing morons" and relieve some stress. However when the opposition is un repentant in their ways, despite being disproven dozens of times, they tend to attempt negative reinforcement. They're trying to insult and degrade you untill you decide to actually educate yourselves.

 

[scott3x]

It's easy. When a group of sanae, rational, intelligent people are stuck in an argument with a group of people who don;t fact check their statemets, provide shoddy evidence, and generally will not listen to actual expert in the firld, they tend to say to one another "What a group of &@#%ing morons" and relieve some stress. However when the opposition is un repentant in their ways, despite being disproven dozens of times, they tend to attempt negative reinforcement. They're trying to insult and degrade you untill you decide to actually educate yourselves.

I am certainly trying to educate others. My methodology is somewhat... different from official story believers, however. In any case, it seems that most here are more interested in insulting others then in dialogue, so I'll retire for now.

 

[EndLightEnd]

If there is incontrovertible evidence that the government was complicit in 9/11 and I deny it, then you should be the ones pouring insults on me.

And I would deserve it.

No I shouldnt be pouring on insults, no matter what. Its called a bipartisan discussion. You think your justified in your insults because you think yourself patriotic.

And no you wouldnt deserve it. No one deserves baseless insults just because they dont agree with your viewpoint.

But I guess thats the difference between us.

 

[EndLightEnd]

They're trying to insult and degrade you untill you decide to actually educate yourselves.

Wow that must work well in schools eh? Are you really that dense....:shrug:

 

[GeoffP]

Do you honestly believe that I think that the alternative theories I believe are not the most likely explanation?

Yep. A bit contrived, if you ask me. The points keep changing to fit the facts.

Sure. All those pesky facts making it clear that 9/11 was an inside job...

Which we have uniformly debunked here.

If the truth is 'sensationalistic', so be it.

But it's not merely that. It's that the 'theory' pursues the most extravagant option possible: that some secret cabal of Lizardoids in Dick Cheney masks has pulled this off for some reason.

Perhaps, but it's not a trap I've ever fallen into.

I disagree.

Yes, they do, or no one would have learned of their inside job.

A supposition. Tell me: of the literally thousands of people that must be privy to the knowledge of this inside job, how is it that none have ever spoken up?

I would argue 2 things:
1- You seem to be working for the government. As such, I believe you may have an impulse, be it unconscious or conscious or some mix of the 2, to want to see all of it in a good light.

Excellent! I got you to do a Ganymede. Scott, is this really what you want to resort to?

But in truth, I do work for the government. I'm a state-employed assistant professor. That's it. No secret cabals, no 9/11 reeducation classes.

I didn't say it did. I said it fell at close to those speeds.

Close but not same. This has been the core argument of every Troofer on here, so I am not amiss to criticize you on it. I thank you for your recognition of the facts, however.

In any case, a rudimentary understanding of the law of energy conservation should make it clear why it's absurd to support anything resembling the 'pancake theory'

I agree that the pancake theory is not required. With sufficient mass above - say, thirty stories of building - there's no need for any delay as the mass hits another floor. More of a 'bowling ball' effect.

So, whether the towers fell at 10 or 15 seconds, their conclusion still stands:
"It is utterly impossible for a "gravitational collapse" to proceed so destructively through a path of such great resistance in anywhere near free-fall times."

Nor did it.

Geoff

 

[GeoffP]

Theres evidence for both sides, but the people defending the official story are the only ones getting out of line with personal insults. I wonder why that is...

I wonder why Ganymede and now Scott have accused me of being a "govmint agent".

 

[scott3x]

Yep. A bit contrived, if you ask me. The points keep changing to fit the facts.

If you're referring to the missile issue, that's one that I believed for a short time before seeing more evidence. And elements of the official story have certainly changed, sometimes more then once (the WTC collapse theory being a multiple changer). Apparently they're not even blaming Osama Bin Laden for 9/11 anymore as well. The FBI certainly never claimed to have enough evidence on him to charge him for it.

Sure. All those pesky facts making it clear that 9/11 was an inside job...

Which we have uniformly debunked here.

I disagree.

If the truth is 'sensationalistic', so be it. If the truth is 'sensationalistic', so be it.

But it's not merely that. It's that the 'theory' pursues the most extravagant option possible: that some secret cabal of Lizardoids in Dick Cheney masks has pulled this off for some reason.

Sorry, but I never mentioned 'lizardoids'. Did you come up with the term? I never mentioned any masks either. As to why 9/11 was pulled off, the strongest alternate theories for this is that it was done in order to put the war machine in overdrive (done), attempt to get juicy oil contracts in the middle east (done) and curtail american citizen freedoms (done).

Perhaps, but it's not a trap I've ever fallen into.

I disagree.

Can you show me an example where you feel I have fallen into this trap?

Yes, they do, or no one would have learned of their inside job.

A supposition. Tell me: of the literally thousands of people that must be privy to the knowledge of this inside job, how is it that none have ever spoken up?

Why do you assume that thousands must know of it? I think it's more that thousands if not millions are afraid of what they might find if they looked too closely at the official story. Better to think that it's the foreign boogeyman. An inside job is a much more frightening prospect.

I would argue 2 things:
1- You seem to be working for the government. As such, I believe you may have an impulse, be it unconscious or conscious or some mix of the 2, to want to see all of it in a good light.

Excellent! I got you to do a Ganymede. Scott, is this really what you want to resort to?

I only wish to know the truth.

But in truth, I do work for the government. I'm a state-employed assistant professor. That's it. No secret cabals, no 9/11 reeducation classes.

Ok. But I never said you were in a 'secret cabal' or teaching a '9/11 reeducation class'. I only stated that you worked for the government, something which you yourself are comfirming.

 

[scott3x]

I didn't say it did. I said it fell at close to those speeds.

Close but not same. This has been the core argument of every Troofer on here, so I am not amiss to criticize you on it. I thank you for your recognition of the facts, however.

As I have mentioned, it's understandable if truthers felt that it fell at free fall speed, as the government itself says it essentially fell at that speed for the south tower, as I've mentioned before (10 seconds; free fall in a vacuum would have been 9.2 seconds). In any case, adding another 5 seconds to it doesn't really change much at all; the manner and speed at which it fell, as well as its sturdy construction and the small amount of fire before the complete collapse, not to mention many other things, all point to a demolition.

In any case, a rudimentary understanding of the law of energy conservation should make it clear why it's absurd to support anything resembling the 'pancake theory'

I agree that the pancake theory is not required. With sufficient mass above - say, thirty stories of building - there's no need for any delay as the mass hits another floor. More of a 'bowling ball' effect.

Even NIST doesn't attempt to simulate how the building could have collapsed so fast; they simply tweak their computer model until it shows that the building was 'poised for collapse'.. and then it leaves the rest up to one's imagination. For people who have been a little more scientific, however, the building never even reaches a 'poised for collapse' position and they also make it clear that there is no way the WTC towers could have fallen, let alone fallen at near free fall speeds, without a fair amount of explosives.

So, whether the towers fell at 10 or 15 seconds, their conclusion still stands:
"It is utterly impossible for a "gravitational collapse" to proceed so destructively through a path of such great resistance in anywhere near free-fall times."

Nor did it.

You're right. There was next to no resistance; the explosives took care of that.

 

[scott3x]

Common practice?

Yes, common practice. No government agency investigating 9/11- FEMA, NIST, the Pentagon, looked for traces of thermite, which is Standard Operating Practice at any scene where arson might be suspected. I suppose the official argument would be that arson was not suspected.

 

[MacGyver1968]

Sorry, but I never mentioned 'lizardoids'. Did you come up with the term? I never mentioned any masks either.

FYI Scott, Geoff is the fictitious leader of the fictitious country of East Korea

http://www.sciforums.com/encyclopedia/East_Korea

The Lizardoids, I believe are his henchmen.

Don't worry...it's all sillyness...just his term for "the people who did the inside job"

 

[KennyJC]

No I shouldnt be pouring on insults, no matter what. Its called a bipartisan discussion. You think your justified in your insults because you think yourself patriotic.

And no you wouldnt deserve it. No one deserves baseless insults just because they dont agree with your viewpoint.

But I guess thats the difference between us.

If you are right and I am wrong, then I am right up there with Holocaust deniers and I deserve much more than some petty insults.

Patriotic? Please... I am justified in my insults because fist of all, you are liars. This has been exhibited by you, Scott and Ganymede and is characterized by the truth movement as a whole. Second of all, this isn't an evolution vs. creationism debate were nobody died. We are talking about the murder of thousands of people, and I find it thoroughly distasteful the way you loonies dishonor them. You are not only guilty of failing on an intellectual matter, but you fail morally and ethically too.

You deserve to be called names. And as usual, it is the people on the side of a belief system that object to name calling. The rational folk just brush of name calling from people on the fringes of sanity. Why should rational folk be offended if they are ridiculed by stupid, insane and dishonest people?

Yes, common practice. No government agency investigating 9/11- FEMA, NIST, the Pentagon, looked for traces of thermite, which is Standard Operating Practice at any scene where arson might be suspected. I suppose the official argument would be that arson was not suspected.

I thought we were talking about the feasibility of any kind of thermite cutting a thick steel beam quickly, remotely and horizontally. Until you prove otherwise, I am saying this is impossible.

But since you're talking about looking for traces of thermite, then you should understand that dust samples were not only investigated by kooks like Stephen Jones. All of the debris was cleared away in the clean up operation, and we know this was investigated as your fellow loony (Headspin) provided me with an article from someone who investigated the WTC steel. The steel was warped from the heat of the fire, but no cuts from a thermite source or explosive was found.