7 Reasons for REJECTING ISLAM

DoctorNO

Ultra Electro Agnostic
Registered Senior Member
#7. Written in ancient Arabic, a language nobody could fully translate, much less understand.

#6. It does not prove the existence of God.

#5. The nonexistence of the orignal surahs written under Mohammed.

#4. Radically deviates from the Torah, Psalms and Gospels, the Quran’s supposed predecessors.

#3. Founded by a pedophile who robbed & murdered people.

#2. It failed its own challenge: the abundant contradictions in the Quran.

#1. Violent and unethical verses in the Quran resulting in disfunctional societies.
 
7 Reasons for REJECTING THIS THREAD

#7. Written with full intention of a fight and not rational discussion.

#6. It does not prove anything, just tosses bait to volatile users.

#5. The nonexistence of any sort of respect for the other side.

#4. Radically deviates from what normal, educated, rational people would say in this forum.

#3. Written by a complete doofus who's here to troll.

#2. It failed its objective to turn people off to Islam: it just turns people off to its author.

#1. Violent and unethical intent.

:D
 
You don't get it.

Unless you show some degree of respect for whoever or whatever you debate against, you're not going to get a debate. You're going to get a fight. You sound so much like your friend Proud_Muslim here.

Your resume? I'd hardly think e-brawling would add anything impressive to it. :rolleyes:
 
Maia said:
Unless you show some degree of respect for whoever or whatever you debate against, you're not going to get a debate. You're going to get a fight. You sound so much like your friend Proud_Muslim here.

My friend, I respect people for what they are not for their bad ideas.

And the only ideas that deserved respect are the ideas that respect you & other people in return. Now tell me how you are supposed to respect this idea...

  • Quran 4:34 "...As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them , refuse to share their beds, beat them ; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means : For Allah is Most High, great.



And this thread is primarily for non-muslims. To warn them of the dangers & senselessness of the false religion called Islam.
 
Nope, I'm afraid I agree with Maia. We've already got Vienna and a couple of others cluttring things up with vehement anti islamic propaganda, as well as Pround muslim telling us all why Islam is wonderful and will take over the world. I'm thinking we need to ban the lot of you.


"I respect people for what they are not for their bad ideas."

And? I've met bad muslims and good ones, bad christians and good ones. You cant simply lump them all together.

"And the only ideas that deserved respect are the ideas that respect you & other people in return"

Ideas dont respect anyone, people do. People make sense and nonsense out of the best and worst ideas imaginable.
 
guthrie said:
"I respect people for what they are not for their bad ideas."

And? I've met bad muslims and good ones, bad christians and good ones. You cant simply lump them all together.
And you missed the point. I dont criticize people (in general), I criticize ideas. It is the INTOLERANT IDEAS that should not be tolerated.

guthrie said:
"And the only ideas that deserved respect are the ideas that respect you & other people in return"

Ideas dont respect anyone, people do. People make sense and nonsense out of the best and worst ideas imaginable.
Ideas may suggest who or who not to respect. Like the verse I mentioned. It has little respect for wives who are FEARED to be disloyal. Think. See if there is any way you could personally make sense of that verse for beating feared wives. It would only make sense to you if you approve domestic violence.
 
DoctorNO, welcome to sciforums
check this site out. i suspect you'll like it

your points...

#7. is today's Arabic different than Arabian Arabic? it may be different, but it could still be translated

#6. no religion 'proves' the existence of God

#4. its deviations in themselves do not mean anything

#3. a robbing murdering pedophile eh... don't lump them all in one group... some of them are nice ;)

#2. Qur'an's contradictions... give an example

#1. violent verses? maybe. you'll find those in the Torah and New Testament (G-d's vengeance is pretty bad)
as for unethical verses, you're judging those verses by today's standards.. but I guess a holy book, or someone who is 'divine' should be able to pass the test and be rightious and applicable for all times... something both the book and the prophet fail to do (imho) in some aspects

tell me, is Islam really to blame for the disfunctional societies? if so, then how?
 
#7. Written in ancient Arabic, a language nobody could fully translate, much less understand.

do you know how many different versions of the Bible are out???

#6. It does not prove the existence of God.

right, it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to prove that I myself exist, much less God, tell me what religion proves that God exists!!!

#5. The nonexistence of the orignal surahs written under Mohammed.

dunno what surahs are, but im guessing that you are just guessing that they dont exist

#4. Radically deviates from the Torah, Psalms and Gospels, the Quran’s supposed predecessors.

mix red and green and you get something radically different to either of them. Mix sodium (a poison) and chlorine (another poison) and you get something that we add to food

#3. Founded by a pedophile who robbed & murdered people.

id want to see proof for the first two, the Christian God has blood on his hands, so does the guy who founded Rome, the first settlers of American have native's blood on theirs, and they also took their land away. If we're gonna bring up pedophiles, do you watch the news? alot of preists are being charged for peadophilia lately

#2. It failed its own challenge: the abundant contradictions in the Quran.

old testament contradicts new and each of them contradict themselves

#1. Violent and unethical verses in the Quran resulting in disfunctional societies.

the Bible goes into a hell of a lot of detail about violence, young kids being ripped apart by animals so God could punish the parents. How are they disfunctional? They have produced some disfunctional people, but then again, so has every religion

think of seven more please, i got nothing better to do
 
otheadp said:
#7. is today's Arabic different than Arabian Arabic? it may be different, but it could still be translated
Not fully. There are some words arabs cant quite agree on, like the word “dharaba”.

otheadp said:
#6. no religion 'proves' the existence of God
That is why there is no point converting to islam. Stay in your own religions.

otheadp said:
#4. its deviations in themselves do not mean anything
It means that those older texts has nothing to do with the quran, contrary to its claims. That the quran was just an invention by mohammed who only plagiarized misunderstood concepts from Christianity & Judaism.

otheadp said:
#3. a robbing murdering pedophile eh... don't lump them all in one group... some of them are nice ;)
I was referring to their prophet Mohammad who married & had sex with a 9 year old “woman”. Who plundered peaceful merchant caravans. Who assassinated his critics, one of whom was a mother of several children.

otheadp said:
#2. Qur'an's contradictions... give an example
Gladly.

  • 023.014
    PICKTHAL: Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!
This verse was supposed to be referring to the embryonic stages. The problem is that there is no stage wherein an embryo become bones before being covered with flesh. A scientific contradiction.


otheadp said:
#1. violent verses? maybe. you'll find those in the Torah and New Testament (G-d's vengeance is pretty bad)
as for unethical verses, you're judging those verses by today's standards.. but I guess a holy book, or someone who is 'divine' should be able to pass the test and be rightious and applicable for all times... something both the book and the prophet fail to do (imho) in some aspects
The difference is that in Islam the violent & unethical verses are being practiced. That is why the huge majority of muslim states are plagued with intolerance, bigotry, poverty & human rights abuses.

otheadp said:
tell me, is Islam really to blame for the disfunctional societies? if so, then how?
Islam contains laws that violate freedom, equality & human rights. And so a society ruled by islam suffers from these laws. You can see the result around us: Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, Libya. To understand this more clearly I suggest you read this very good article by a former muslim scholar Anwar Shaikh….

http://www.islamreview.org/AnwarShaikh/islam/IslamicLaw.html
 
Case #3. Islam was founded by a pedophile who robbed & murdered people.

PEDOPHILIA


These were taken from the Hadiths, the second most important religious text in Islam. Also the most reliable source of historical accounts regarding the life of Mohammed.

  • From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
    "Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

    From Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116:
    "Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). " He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old. "

    Bukhari vol. 5, #234 says:
    "Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. "


BANDITRY

  • http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/M/Muhammad.htm

    In Medina a few emigrant Muslim Makkans, with the approval of Muhammad, set out in normal Arab fashion on razzias ("raids") hoping to loot Makkah on their way to Syria. About the same time Muhammad changed the direction of the Qibla from Jerusalem to Makkah. In March of 624 Muhammad led about 300 men on a razzia to attack a Makkan caravan that was led by Abu Sufyan, the head of the Umayyah clan.

MURDER & ASSASSINATIONS

The following were also the hot topic of a debate in
http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/Shahzad1.htm
Wherein a muslim tried to justify the morality of these assassinations.


  • http://www.answering-islam.org/Muhammad/Enemies/asma.html

    The Death of `Asma' Bint Marwan
    From Ibn Sa`d's Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, translated by S. Moinul Haq, volume 2, page 31.
    Then (occurred) the sariyyah of `Umayr ibn `Adi Ibn Kharashah al-Khatmi against `Asma' Bint Marwan, of Banu Umayyah Ibn Zayd, when five nights had remained from the month of Ramadan, in the beginning of the nineteenth month from the hijrah of the apostle of Allah. `Asma' was the wife of Yazid Ibn Zayd Ibn Hisn al-Khatmi. She used to revile Islam, offend the prophet and instigate the (people) against him. She composed verses. Umayr Ibn Adi came to her in the night and entered her house. Her children were sleeping around her. There was one whom she was suckling. He searched her with his hand because he was blind, and separated the child from her. He thrust his sword in her chest till it pierced up to her back. Then he offered the morning prayers with the prophet at al-Medina. The apostle of Allah said to him: "Have you slain the daughter of Marwan?" He said: "Yes. Is there something more for me to do?" He [Muhammad] said: "No. Two goats will butt together about her. This was the word that was first heard from the apostle of Allah. The apostle of Allah called him `Umayr, "basir" (the seeing).
    ---------
    The Murder of Abu `Afak

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Muhammad/Enemies/abuafak.html

    FROM ALI DASHTI'S "23 YEARS: A STUDY OF THE PROPHETIC CAREER OF MOHAMMAD", (3) page 100:
    Abu Afak, a man of great age (reputedly 120 years) was killed because he had lampooned Mohammad. The deed was done by Salem b. Omayr at the behest of the Prophet, who had asked, "Who will deal with this rascal for me?" The killing of such an old man moved a poetess, Asma b. Marwan, to compose disrespectful verses about the Prophet, and she too was assassinated."
 
prophets don't murder people... they send them to heaven
prophets don't rape (consumate) 9 year old girls... they bring heaven to them
prophets don't pillage... they collect jizziyah from the dhimmi's
 
alain said:
#7. Written in ancient Arabic, a language nobody could fully translate, much less understand.

do you know how many different versions of the Bible are out???

There are many versions of the bible but the message are all the same. On the otherhand there are fewer versions of the quran but the messages vary. One of those radical versions are the Khalifa translation. Other modern translations of the quran were created to please the Politically Correct masses of the West, in violation of the traditional understanding of the quranic messages.

alain said:
#6. It does not prove the existence of God.

right, it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to prove that I myself exist, much less God, tell me what religion proves that God exists!!!

You have proven to everybody that you exist simply by posting in this forum. And yes you are right, no religion is able to prove the existence of God. That is why there is no point converting to Islam. It doesn’t offer anything positively new.

alain said:
#5. The nonexistence of the orignal surahs written under Mohammed.

dunno what surahs are, but im guessing that you are just guessing that they dont exist

Surahs are the chapters in the quran. According to muslim histories they were originally written on camel skins, wood, parchment & cloth. None of them exists today. Muslim histories say that their 3rd caliph known as Uthman destroyed all the older manuscripts after he made his own compilation of the quran for everybody to use. And so Muslims have no choice but to ASSUME that Uthman’s version was faithful to the originals that he destroyed.

alain said:
#4. Radically deviates from the Torah, Psalms and Gospels, the Quran’s supposed predecessors.

mix red and green and you get something radically different to either of them. Mix sodium (a poison) and chlorine (another poison) and you get something that we add to food

You are correct. The quran is a mixture of older colors that produced a totally new & different color. In religious terms that makes islam a false religion.

alain said:
#3. Founded by a pedophile who robbed & murdered people.

id want to see proof for the first two, the Christian God has blood on his hands, so does the guy who founded Rome, the first settlers of American have native's blood on theirs, and they also took their land away. If we're gonna bring up pedophiles, do you watch the news? alot of preists are being charged for peadophilia lately

Priests are not prophets. Settlers are not prophets. Prophets are supposed to be the prime examples of morality far beyond any priest, pastor, rabbi or settler.

I posted above the proofs you needed to see.

alain said:
#2. It failed its own challenge: the abundant contradictions in the Quran.

old testament contradicts new and each of them contradict themselves

Thats right. The quran is not much different in consistency in comparison with your bible. So for the sake of your family & friends just stick to your ancestral religion.


alain said:
#1. Violent and unethical verses in the Quran resulting in disfunctional societies.

the Bible goes into a hell of a lot of detail about violence, young kids being ripped apart by animals so God could punish the parents. How are they disfunctional? They have produced some disfunctional people, but then again, so has every religion

I am not a Christian but I know it is one thing for a “God” to do the despicable punishment and it is another for a “God” to command humans to do the despicable punishment. Christianity is more of the former. Islam is more of the latter. Which is why Christians today are more peaceful, moral & prosperous than muslims.

alain said:
think of seven more please, i got nothing better to do

Think again, bud. :D
 
DoctorNO said:
#7. Written in ancient Arabic, a language nobody could fully translate, much less understand.

#6. It does not prove the existence of God.

#5. The nonexistence of the orignal surahs written under Mohammed.

#4. Radically deviates from the Torah, Psalms and Gospels, the Quran’s supposed predecessors.

#3. Founded by a pedophile who robbed & murdered people.

#2. It failed its own challenge: the abundant contradictions in the Quran.

#1. Violent and unethical verses in the Quran resulting in disfunctional societies.

7, 6, 4, 2, and 1 all describe the bible just as easily.
 
Mystech said:
7, 6, 4, 2, and 1 all describe the bible just as easily.

#7 As I said the various bible translations do agree on the same message. Could anyone show us a verse from 2 different bible translations that says different things?

#6 Yes this holds for every religion we have today.

#4 But bible apologists are able to reconcile the new testament to the old. That could not be said of the musim apologists who abandoned these books altogether accusing it as “too corrupt” that they are the ones that have deviated from the Islamic message. Silly isn’t it?

#1 The Christian God does all atrocities. The Muslm God make the muslims do all the atrocities. See the difference?
 
DoctorNO said:
#7 As I said the various bible translations do agree on the same message. Could anyone show us a verse from 2 different bible translations that says different things?

back me up here, people, when you translate something zillions of times from languages that have gone all but completely out of use in the age of the translators errors are going to be inevitable.

DoctorNO said:
#6 Yes this holds for every religion we have today.

Oh? So that makes it fair grounds to reject Islam but not to reject Christianity?

DoctorNO said:
#4 But bible apologists are able to reconcile the new testament to the old. That could not be said of the musim apologists who abandoned these books altogether accusing it as “too corrupt” that they are the ones that have deviated from the Islamic message. Silly isn’t it?

But at the same time there are clear contradictions between the old testament and the new, and having argued here for quite some time, the standard reply from those who hold the bible dear is that the new supercedes the old. In essence abandoning portions of it (except when it servers their own agendas I suppose).

DoctorNO said:
#1 The Christian God does all atrocities. The Muslm God make the muslims do all the atrocities. See the difference?

Oh is that so? Then why do religious nuts kill doctors who perform abortions? Why did we need the crusades or the inquisition? Why does the religious right think that God is urging them to seize control of this nation? You can't just slump off all of the atrocities of any religion on God, it's always the people who follow that religion.

I suppose that #2 was just a no contest?

Oh, and in the future you might want to try spelling Muslim correctly. Muslm sounds like dialogue being spoken by a hick.
 
DoctorNO said:
#7. Written in ancient Arabic, a language nobody could fully translate, much less understand.

#6. It does not prove the existence of God.

#5. The nonexistence of the orignal surahs written under Mohammed.

#4. Radically deviates from the Torah, Psalms and Gospels, the Quran’s supposed predecessors.

#3. Founded by a pedophile who robbed & murdered people.

#2. It failed its own challenge: the abundant contradictions in the Quran.

#1. Violent and unethical verses in the Quran resulting in disfunctional societies.
Charming. Really charming.

7) You're joking right? Ancient Arabic is very capable of being translated. Just like the hieroglyphics in Ancient Egypt and Ancient Meso America are capable of being translated. In fact, all are still being translated today. Heck, the bible is also being translated, as is the Torah. So what's your point? Should we stop reading all ancient texts because it's just too damn hard..?

6) Can you name me one religion that proves the existence of God? Just one? You then go on to claim that because of this point, we should just all stay in our own religions instead of converting. Why? If Islam fails to prove the existence of God just like all other religions fail, why not convert? Wouldn't that make all religions the same? Why should people stay in their own little boxes? Your whole argument could be applied to any religion on the planet. What made you pick Islam? Want to be popular with all the Islamic denouncers out there?

5) Mmmm hmmm and I'm still waiting for someone to show me the original tablets of the 10 commandments. Or how about the cross Jesus was crucified on? How about the talking bush? Can someone show me that? That would mean since these items can't be produced but are only told to us through the writings of others, that they did not exist. Do you get where I'm heading with this? You gleefully discount one religion but you fail to show the same consideration to other religions. By your standard, all religions should be rejected. You only picked Islam as your rejection of choice because of the amount of anti-islamic feelings that exist in the world.

4) Really? Well imagine that! Who'd have thought. Such deviations mean nothing. Zero. All religions deviate from each other in certain aspects. Look at the Mormons as an example.

3) Were you there to see him murder these people? Did you actually see him steal from people? Such actions were normal in all early religions of the times. Christians stole and killed and raped and plundered. Hell I'm sure if you delve into some of the authors of the bible you'd find that some are guilty of worse. And as for the peadophilia. If his marrying supposedly Aishah (sp?) when she was 9 was correct, how would it differ to the current times (back then), when girls were married with 3 children by the time they were 12? Mary herself was said to be 14 when she gave birth to Jesus. Does this make God a peadophile? It was culturally acceptable to marry young girls at that time. It is still considered to be culturally normal in certain parts of the world today. Lets look at the Catholic church for example. Some priests there still think that it is ok to rape little children behind the altar. Yet you do not include them in your little reasons. I'd say that would be one of the main reasons to reject Catholicism, instead of rejecting Islam for Muhammed (supposedly) committing an act which was widely practiced and culturally acceptable at the time.

2) I'd type out all the contradictions in the Bible but I'm busy for the next two years. All religions are rife with contradictions. Islam is no worse or no better than any other in this regard. So again I ask, why do you single out Islam, when all religions are guilty of the same crimes?

1) Oh that's a classic one. Are you aware that the Bible also contains verses which today are considered to be violent and unethical? Hell I still remember being terrified and unable to sleep in the dark as a child after reading some of the verses in the bible. As for your little statement about Muslim states. Look again. Christian states can also be accused of the same things. You only look at one instead of all. Sure it's easy to blame Islam and to point the hating finger at Islam. But you fail in doing so because you did not even take other religions, who are guilty of the same or worse, into consideration. Look at the way that some Christian groups blow up family planning clinics and how they murder the staff who work there. They are following the teachings of the bible, fighting for the right of the child, yet they kill another in doing so. They feel that God talks to them. Some Christian church leaders are encouraging them to do these acts, I'd call them unethical and violent. Look at the treatment of homosexuals in Christianity. They're treatment could only be called violent, unethical and against human rights. And as for your little statement of human rights abuses. I have two words for you. Guantanamo Bay! Here's another one.... Australian refugee camps! Here we have Christian believing Governments committing human rights abuses.

There are many many more but frankly I think I've devoted more than enough time to you and your disgusting little thread.
 
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BELLS said:
Look at the way that some Christian groups blow up family planning clinics and how they murder the staff who work there. They are following the teachings of the bible, fighting for the right of the child, yet they kill another in doing so. They feel that God talks to them. Some Christian church leaders are encouraging them to do these acts, I'd call them unethical and violent. Look at the treatment of homosexuals in Christianity. They're treatment could only be called violent, unethical and against human rights. And as for your little statement of human rights abuses. I have two words for you. Guantanamo Bay! Here's another one.... Australian refugee camps! Here we have Christian believing Governments committing human rights abuses.

I have two words for you - ISLAMIC TERRORISM
 
Vienna

I have one word for you... TERRORISM.

Terrorism has no religion and knows no boundaries. It doesn't care about your religion, race, sex, creed. Those who commit terrorist acts don't represent the whole of their religious, racial or sexual group. They act of their own accord. If I go out and blow up a building tomorrow, would you view all Australians as being terrorists? I'd say probably not. When Timothy McVeigh blew up the Federal building, did the world view all Americans as terrorists? Not that I recall. Did they view all right wing christian groups as terrorists? Nope. What the world did was blame the individual(s). Islam has nothing to do with terrorism. If we look into history and look at all the terrorist acts committed in the last 100 years, we'd see that non-Muslims have committed more terrorist acts than Muslims have. I point you to Northern Ireland as a starting point.

The new world order finds it easy to blame one particular group of people because it is easy to do so. It's easy to point the finger. One dickhead tells his own little group of followers to do something and just because these people are Muslims, the whole world points the finger at all Muslims. The majority of Muslims had not even heard of OBL until the last 5 years. They didn't know who he was. Yet today he's become the catch cry of why Islam is supposedly bad and why Muslims should be persecuted. Makes me think of the witchtrials of the past actually. Wrongful persecution of a group of people who are innocent. OBL and his followers are guilty, but instead of the world turning their anger on these particular individuals, they turn that anger on the innocent Muslims who have nothing to do with OBL.
 
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